Sven Botman

[duo]

On 20/03/2024 at 21:54, duo said:

What a mess up - clubs medical team have totally messed this up.  He never looked fit when he returned and clearly wasn't.

He is spot on !!

 

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by duo

[Thumbheed]

32 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

 

I'm firmly behind Howe but I do believe he's had a significant part to play in our injury crisis by virtue of his squad management. 

 

Rafa was the only manager I can remember who had a marked affect on our injury list and made me realise the impact of good squad management.

 

Perhaps it's naivety, perhaps it's just a case of wrong injuries at the wrong time or perhaps it is is just freak bad luck (although I refer to his last season at Bournemouth) but something needs to change and I don't think it's the medical staff which is a lazy conclusion imo.

 

 

 

 

[Playmaker]

Ffs devastating news. this season has been insane for injuries.
 

 

I’m starting to think our medical team are undercover Mackems.

[duo]

It is an utter disaster this - gutted.

[Amir_9]

If the medical team and Howe were aware of this being a real risk to a high enough level then it has been a very short sighted decision to play him given what our injuries have been like so far this year.

[The Prophet]

We've had someone with knowledge of the situation repeatedly tell us his scans were coming back clear.

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

We've had someone with knowledge of the situation repeatedly tell us his scans were coming back clear.

I hope he’s still alive 

[McDog]

5 minutes ago, Amir_9 said:

If the medical team and Howe were aware of this being a real risk to a high enough level then it has been a very short sighted decision to play him given what our injuries have been like so far this year.

 

 

Exactly. So clearly the scans they have reviewed did not indicate that and if someone who has reviewed them here and is competent enough to interpret them disagrees then feel free to make declarative statements purporting why you feel their decisions were professional incompetence.

[Upthemags]

5 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Exactly. So clearly the scans they have reviewed did not indicate that and if someone who has reviewed them here and is competent enough to interpret them disagrees then feel free to make declarative statements purporting why you feel their decisions were professional incompetence.

Mate, the interview with Sven from January indicates that (more than) one doctor saw a fully ruptured ACL. Having your 24 year old crown jewel play through an injury as serious as that (one that oftentimes can outright end a career), while that injury is clearly having a massive impact on his ability to contribute positively to the team, is outright negligence/incompetence.

[The College Dropout]

59 minutes ago, madras said:

So if every manager does they all should be blamed ?

Yes. Elite foootball is about performance not about health. When both don’t work out the coach shoulders some responsibility.  
 

Wilson said he rushed back from injury too early this season too. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

Shadow Puppets would probably challenge that it more than one doctor actuallly said that it was a fully ruptured ACL

 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by Vinny Green Balls

[McDog]

Just now, Upthemags said:

Mate, the interview with Sven from January indicates that (more than) one doctor saw a fully ruptured ACL. Having your 24 year old crown jewel play through an injury as serious as that (one that oftentimes can outright end a career), while that injury is clearly having a massive impact on his ability to contribute positively to the team, is outright negligence/incompetence.

 

 

Nobody in their right mind plays a player with a fully ruptured ACL. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

Why do a few posters go

off the rails with everything? If you are living in an alternative universe, then my apologies. 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, McDog said:

 

 

Nobody in their right mind plays a player with a fully ruptured ACL. 

It seems different doctors said different things.  They went with rest to see what it was like.  He started playing again and seemed ok.  

[madras]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Yes. Elite foootball is about performance not about health. When both don’t work out the coach shoulders some responsibility.  
 

Wilson said he rushed back from injury too early this season too. 

Small point but was it Wilson that rushed back too early of Wilson was rushed back too early ? Subtle but important difference.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Sounds like Sven opted for rest 

[Upthemags]

2 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Nobody in their right mind plays a player with a fully ruptured ACL. 

Can't say I understand the sensitivity/loyalty to medical staff, but alas!

[Turnbull2000]

Think we might have to cash in Bruno on that back of this, otherwise the squad is going to get caught short again next season.

[OoOGazOoO]

Absolutely awful news, good luck to the fella with his surgery and rehab, let's hope he comes back 100% next season.

[madras]

1 minute ago, Upthemags said:

Can't say I understand the sensitivity/loyalty to medical staff, but alas!

You'd think the ones who said it was told him to rest which he did.

[McDog]

Just now, Upthemags said:

Can't say I understand the sensitivity/loyalty to medical staff, but alas!

 

No loyalty here on the faceless medical staff. I say again, if after reviewing the scans the medical team allowed him to play and his ACL was all but done then sure they should be fired. That also assumes the entire review process in the club is a giant mess. Botman is a valuable player and I personally highly doubt they would chuck him in knowing that kind of danger from the top. That said, I concede I know fuck all on who did what, just as everyone here I guess.

[Wolfcastle]

Just no point in thinking this season isn't a write off is there. A few weeks will pass and nobody will be injured and Bam! another goes down.

 

Squad and spend limits probably aren't good for player fitness. The ancients knew this well, seemed to work.

 

[bobloblaw]

Two of my friends, one an athletic trainer for a small local college sports department, and the other a US Paralympic weight lifter, have mentioned to me that there's been a lot of rethinking lately about icing injuries.  Maybe the staff is a bit behind the curve?  Obviously I have no clue how they treat injuries, but could be a possibility.

 

EDIT: Also not suggesting anything specific relating to Botman here, just seemed like a good thread to put it in.

 

Some evidence:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/well/move/exercise-icing-sore-muscles.html

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by bobloblaw

[Dr Jinx]

You can criticise the medical team but ultimately you have to look further up.. some of these decisions were also made by Dan Ashworth as well so he’s also in the firing line alongside Eddie Howe.

 

The buck stops there really. It has to.

 

Someone made a call to leave the decision of having surgery or not up to the player himself which looks so amateur, a player will always want to play or come back with the least amount of downtime.

 

It’s been a massively frustrating season where I think the manager has come up short. Did he deserve the chance to have a go at it? Yes absolutely he did but how long does that good will last for? How much of a pass should he get?

[magorific]

3 hours ago, Lazarus said:

Does anyone know what the club or other clubs have in the way of ultra modern diagnostic equipment in their medical departments?

 

Or do they have like a basic-ish suite of gear and then refer players to a hospital when they need more advanced stuff?

 

 

 

Told by a very highly regarded physio local to the North East, who presents to health conferences worldwide on the use of cutting-edge injury diagnostic and rehab equipment, that he has offered use and advice re such equipment to rhe club several times. He's even offered to work for free to gather content for his PhD studies. But the response has always been negative - on the basis that the players are "used to" the kit already used by the club, mainly because it's relatively light-duty equipment which makes their injuries feel temporarily better - and "doesn't hurt".

And what the players want, they get...