Bruno Guimarães

[Orphanage]

25 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

It's not realism, it's just you projecting your own frustrations and insecurities on here because we didn't win away to Chelsea.

 

Seriously, cheer up.

 

Nah its realism . Like a lot of fans youre putting your wishes in front of the reality 

[Conjo]

7 minutes ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

I don’t know the financial possibilities for each elite European club, but you’ve already mentioned about 10 clubs which is a sizeable amount already.

 

In any case, this is deviating from my original challenge to your post which basically insinuated our best players would be steadfastly loyal to us and not be interested in moving on. I don’t think that’s true at all and I’d expect them to want to move if an acceptable offer arrives. 

 

Of course there are never any 100% guarantees. If for whatever reason one of the elite clubs in the world finds themselves a striker or cm short, see Bruno or Isak as the ideal replacement and have a load of money and wiggle room within FFP, sure, they might leave. Slim chance of that happening imo. I don't see any of the elite clubs screaming out for an Isak or Bruno with their current squads, and if they were, I think many of them would think there is better value elsewhere as we wouldn't let them go cheap.

 

Even if our players wanted to leave, I don't see any of our top players leaving for the likes of say Dortmund/Leverkusen, Inter/Juventus/Roma/AC Milan/Napoli, Atletico Madrid/Athletic/Sociedad etc (meaning the clubs in the bracket below the teams already mentioned earlier). Hell Isak joined us from Sociedad after we finished 11th. Do you really think he'd go back to that calibre of club just because of one season with no Europe? 

[LiquidAK]

Glad we're back to Pessimism = Grown-up. Feels comfortingly familiar.

[Nucasol]

No other weapon left in our arsenal than to deploy singing “Please Don’t Go” by KWS for 90 minutes straight from now each game until the end of the season.

 

“Bruuunnnnooooo I’m begging you to stay, Please don’t go…”

 

What do you say lads? Lads?

[Nine]

It’s really not a big reach to imagine that our players wouldn’t at least entertain serious offers from big clubs this summer is it? Because if those offers arrive then they certainly would.
 

It’s blindy optimistic to assume they’d turn down CL moves for more money and a chance at trophies, our project is years away from being able to guarantee that to anyone. Personally I wouldn’t hold it against any player for moving on, under our current circumstances it’s just part of the game for us. I trust management to trade and reinvest well.

 

 

Edited March 12 by Nine

[mighty__mag]

14 hours ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

If that’s our finishing position, you honestly believe the likes of Bruno, Isak, Botman and whoever else wouldn’t want to move on if a major European club put in an acceptable offer for them in the summer? 

 

Spurs finished outside all the European places last season, won nowt, lost Harry Kane, and hired a relatively unknown manager, they attracted James Maddison, Van de Ven, Vicario, among others.

 

You mentioned major European clubs putting in offers, Spurs were not in Europe, many clubs were in for Maddison and the others, clubs that offered champions league, and Uefa Cup, they still chose spurs, so your point isn't really valid.

 

Players choose clubs based on wages, let's get real. ??

 

 

Edited March 13 by mighty__mag

[Guest]

Spurs have been an established top 4-5 team for about 10 years whether we like it or not, though. 

[Shearergol]

56 minutes ago, Orphanage said:

Its called realism

 

You say it how it is man, I respect that, keep it real. Nobody else is brave enough to say it how it is like you.

[mighty__mag]

Maddison went from 100k to 170k That's all I see.

I still believe he took a risk based on what I pointed out, no Kane, Ange possibly not working out?

 

Hypothetically he could have been looking at a Chelsea/Poch situation, but, its all looking like it might work out as he'd hoped.

 

 

[HaydnNUFC]

9 minutes ago, Nine said:

It’s really not a big reach to imagine that our players wouldn’t at least entertain serious offers from big clubs this summer is it? Because if those offers arrive then they certainly would.
 

It’s blindy optimistic to assume they’d turn down CL moves for more money and a chance at trophies, our project is years away from being able to guarantee that to anyone. Personally I wouldn’t hold it against any player for moving on, under our current circumstances it’s just part of the game for us. I trust management to trade and reinvest well.

 

 

 

 

Yep. Isak is the one I worry the most about. We consistently don't get the best out of him and given how good he is to think that he wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving for an Arsenal or another big club closer to challenging for the top honours either here or abroad in Europe is delusional imo. 

 

Obviously we would get top money for him if we were to let him go, but to replace him with a player just as good as him or better would take £80m+ at least. And the players that cost that much will have better offers than from us.

[Shearergol]

Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yep. Isak is the one I worry the most about. We consistently don't get the best out of him and given how good he is to think that he wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving for an Arsenal or another big club closer to challenging for the top honours either here or abroad in Europe is delusional imo. 

 

Obviously we would get top money for him if we were to let him go, but to replace him with a player just as good as him or better would take £80m+ at least. And the players that cost that much will have better offers than from us.

 

If Arsenal match his valuation he's 100% off. 

[Sibierski]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yep. Isak is the one I worry the most about. We consistently don't get the best out of him and given how good he is to think that he wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving for an Arsenal or another big club closer to challenging for the top honours either here or abroad in Europe is delusional imo. 

 

Obviously we would get top money for him if we were to let him go, but to replace him with a player just as good as him or better would take £80m+ at least. And the players that cost that much will have better offers than from us.

 

Think what works in our favour, are his injuries over his time with us. Someone paying £80m+ will want more assurances he won't be injured regularly. 

[HaydnNUFC]

1 minute ago, Sibierski said:

 

Think what works in our favour, are his injuries over his time with us. Someone paying £80m+ will want more assurances he won't be injured regularly. 

 

Maybe, but his injury record before signing for us is very good. Barnes likewise. Perhaps it's us.

[wormy]

7 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

You say it how it is man, I respect that, keep it real. Nobody else is brave enough to say it how it is like you.

 

Gotta give 'em some credit for going against The Clique.

[Nine]

6 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yep. Isak is the one I worry the most about. We consistently don't get the best out of him and given how good he is to think that he wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving for an Arsenal or another big club closer to challenging for the top honours either here or abroad in Europe is delusional imo. 

 

Obviously we would get top money for him if we were to let him go, but to replace him with a player just as good as him or better would take £80m+ at least. And the players that cost that much will have better offers than from us.

Unfortunately a lot of football fans fall into

the trap of getting emotionally attached to certain players, convincing themselves said players wont leave and then when it happens they label those players as traitors  This cycle repeats itself and as you say, it’s mass delusion. 
 

We struck gold with Bruno and Isak in particular, but we’d extract big value from a sale for either also. Without a shadow of a doubt we will have targets identified already in anticipation of either leaving, not saying they will or they won’t but management will be prepared.

 

 

Edited March 12 by Nine

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, Nine said:

Unfortunately a lot of football fans fall into

the trap of getting emotionally attached to certain players, convincing themselves said players wont leave and then when it happens they label those players as traitors  This cycle repeats itself and as you say, it’s mass delusion. 
 

We struck gold with Bruno and Isak in particular, but we’d extract big value from a sale for either also. Without a shadow of a doubt we will have targets identified already in anticipation of either leaving, not saying they will or they won’t but management will be prepared.

 

 

 

 

This is pure nihilism, need to stop. Getting depressed.  But replacing Isak would be incredibly difficult. I struggle to think of many strikers out there as good as him or better than him. The ones I can think of aren't coming here with no Europe or serious chance(s) of silverware when they'll have the pick of other clubs that can offer both. If they're not already at one.

 

 

Edited March 12 by HaydnNUFC

[Kanji]

I assume guys like Isak and bruno are highly accountable, self aware players who take responsibility and have a sense of pride in their own performances in a struggling team, at times this season. Also assume these guys are also aware of the good times and amazing experiences and aren't going to just cut and run and be so selfish. 

[gjohnson]

34 minutes ago, Kanji said:

I assume guys like Isak and bruno are highly accountable, self aware players who take responsibility and have a sense of pride in their own performances in a struggling team, at times this season. Also assume these guys are also aware of the good times and amazing experiences and aren't going to just cut and run and be so selfish. 

Hell of an assumption....Bruno looks like he cares, but won't wait for for stragglers to catch up with him. Isak never looks like he has a clue what's going on

[gbandit]

Always impossible to tell what an individual player’s priorities are. They don’t owe us anything really although they have to make a faith-based decision. If I stay here, can I achieve what I want to achieve, e.g. win trophies, be in CL year on year. Isak and Bruno won’t stay for two seasons out of the CL but I hope they’ll stay for one out of it 

[Kanji]

4 hours ago, gjohnson said:

Hell of an assumption....Bruno looks like he cares, but won't wait for for stragglers to catch up with him. Isak never looks like he has a clue what's going on

hell of an assumption on your part too then, it goes both ways. But the biggest defeatist nonsense I’m tired of reading here is X player will leave because he’s “too good” for us. There’s being a realist and adult about things, there’s the drama queen, and then there’s the fan who thinks it’s raining always. 

[Vedder]

Without falling into the latter, we do have to acknowledge Bruno in particular was sold the dream of us conquering England and Europe. Whether it’s FFP or whatever, I think it’s fair to say our trajectory isn’t going to be as fast as we hoped. Fans are quick to turn on players when things don’t go well yet believe players should be so attached to the club. The reality is they have short careers that they need to make the most of and at the moment, you couldn’t blame our better players for wanting to go to Arsenal over staying with us. But if it does happen, we’ll make a profit and hopefully recycle it well like Liverpool and Spurs have done in the past. 

[TheBrownBottle]

6 hours ago, Kanji said:

hell of an assumption on your part too then, it goes both ways. But the biggest defeatist nonsense I’m tired of reading here is X player will leave because he’s “too good” for us. There’s being a realist and adult about things, there’s the drama queen, and then there’s the fan who thinks it’s raining always. 

Bruno isn’t ’too good for us’.  No player is.

 

I think he’s the most likely of our ‘crown jewels’ to leave in the summer - due to age and the fact he’s been here a little longer than the others (admittedly not by much).  If he does, I hope it’s abroad and for a massive sum of money.  If he stays; excellent, we’ve still got a top notch midfielder that we don’t need to replace. 
 

Getting overly attached to individual players isn’t a good idea in football - all that really counts is whether or not the club is just going to pour the profits into the owner’s pockets or reinvest it.  As long as it’s the latter, I tend not to worry too much about it. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

13 hours ago, LiquidAK said:

Glad we're back to Pessimism = Grown-up. Feels comfortingly familiar.

Thought this was the politics thread for a minute. 

[The College Dropout]

17 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

Yeah, I do believe that. It's not like we're getting fucking relegated to the championship is it?  Liverpool didn't get CL this season. How many of their top players left in a huff? Chelsea a mid table team can retain and pick up whomever they want. Arsenal finished 8th twice in a row under Arteta did they have to sell their best players because they didn't want to be there?

 

These are players who are playing for an ambitious club, which they are well aware of, and every player getting interviewed is always bragging about how good group they are. They are getting paid a lot more than what they would get elsewhere in Europe and play in the best league in the world™. One season outside of CL won't scare them away.

We aren't Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea. You're doing this thing that I've seen here where people conveniently compare us to a top 6 side when the argument suits them. But will compare us to Wolves, West Ham & Brighton when the narrative better suits.

 

People on this forum discounted Liverpool but sensible people knew Liverpool would qualify for the CL this season (and with a backwind, challenge for the title) and probably win the Europa. Look at Klopp's record over the years, he has the odd bad season. Not to mention, Liverpool pays the second-highest wages in the league.

 

Arsenal rebuilt their side. Spend top dollar and have high revenues.

 

Chelsea are shit.

 

We've had 1 European campaign in a decade and face FFP issues. Most of us and the club itself would accept not qualifying for the CL next season too. Our "right" level isn't the CL and we are years away from that being a reality. 

[The College Dropout]

4 hours ago, Vedder said:

Without falling into the latter, we do have to acknowledge Bruno in particular was sold the dream of us conquering England and Europe. Whether it’s FFP or whatever, I think it’s fair to say our trajectory isn’t going to be as fast as we hoped. Fans are quick to turn on players when things don’t go well yet believe players should be so attached to the club. The reality is they have short careers that they need to make the most of and at the moment, you couldn’t blame our better players for wanting to go to Arsenal over staying with us. But if it does happen, we’ll make a profit and hopefully recycle it well like Liverpool and Spurs have done in the past. 

I don't agree with this.

 

The biggest likelihood of Bruno leaving is that he;s been the most consistent and standout performer and he has a release clause (and he was signed for a relatively low fee and now has big wages which will help FFP wise if he's sold). If Isak can stay fit and score he might become more likely to be sold. However, he's developed injury concerns and makes less sense to sell from an FFP perspective as the fee is likely to be closer to his amortisation cost than Bruno's sale.

 

Those are the last 2 I would sell. I'd sell anyone else before them.