Bruno Guimarães

[KennyUtd]

Bruno won't go to any other club in this country man. His standing/legacy is too important to him imo. I think he'd be looking at better sides than Man U's current crop too. Not disrespecting Man U obviously. Huge club. But there's no guarantees he'd win loads there. Barcelona, Madrid, PSG even. 

[Yorkie]

I don't really care about Man Utd's status based on their history; we have been, at worst, on a par with them since the takeover. We've finished above each other twice each; we've had more CL games, we've beaten them more times in the league, they've got one more pot than us (thanks to winning a final we also played in). 

 

Meanwhile they're a shit basket case club with crumbling infrastructure and a well-ingrained toxic underbelly, and as responsible as anyone for the anti-competitive environment the rest of us inhabit. Of all the cartel clubs, they're probably the ones I'd be most mortified seeing any of our icons turning out for.

[KaKa]

31 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

Aye, I should be clear I was making that point specifically about Bruno. I know the typical mindset is 'move over improve' or 'get more money'. 

 

Yeah, players of that sort of character are way too rare unfortunately. It would be disappointing if we come to find Bruno goes down the same path.

 

[Froggy]

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I don't really care about Man Utd's status based on their history; we have been, at worst, on a par with them since the takeover. We've finished above each other twice each; we've had more CL games, we've beaten them more times in the league, they've got one more pot than us (thanks to winning a final we also played in). 

 

Meanwhile they're a shit basket case club with crumbling infrastructure and a well-ingrained toxic underbelly, and as responsible as anyone for the anti-competitive environment the rest of us inhabit. Of all the cartel clubs, they're probably the ones I'd be most mortified seeing any of our icons turning out for.

 

Cleverly worded Yorkie but ultimately, even since the takeover, we've had more success than you. More trophies, and a European final. In the end, that's all that ever really matters. Even now some of your fans call for Howe's head despite the trophy, so who's going to care in a few years that you managed to finish above us?

 

Crumbling infrastructure is interesting as well. Are you meaning when the roof leaked twice in seven years? There's a new stadium on the way, and we've also just built a state of the art training facility at Carrington. I would argue our "infrastructure" is better than yours. Our training facilities most certainly are.

 

Toxic underbelly also, I wouldn't this mind explained. Amorim removed the toxicity from the dressing room. No more shite stories leaked to the press, no more team leaks. The team was shite under Amorim but they were shite together. Are you meaning Ratcliffe's comments in the press that are nothing to do with the club? We surely don't want to go down the route of digging up dirt on our owners, do we? 

[lovejoy]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Without sounding pompous, you don't see a situation where Bruno might want to play for us over Newcastle, especially in a scenario where we're in the Champions League and you're not?

The simplest way to put it (and the way I’ve put it to everyone down here who has mentioned it to me in the last 24 hours) is that if Bruno wanted to leave and was made available, he’ll have better options than Man Utd. It really is as simple as that.

[Kid Icarus]

Can we quote all of that back to you when you're complaining about all of those things while making the case for the Glazers being the worst thing in the world?

 

 

[KennyUtd]

Not sure why a new stadium makes any difference to players available now. They're still only expected to submit plans in the next 12 to 18 months. It'll be 6 years away.

 

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Can we quote all of that back to you when you're complaining about all of those things while making the case for the Glazers being the worst thing in the world?

 

I don't think I mentioned the Glazers. I can only assume Yorkie is talking about Ratcliffe's comments which I why I mentioned the owners.

 

But what things are you expecting me to compain about?

• The training facilities. INEOS pumped money in and we now have state of the art facilities. I'm happy about that.
• The leaks at Old Trafford, but INEOS have put a new stadium plan in motion. I'm a tad on the fence with how it's getting funded, but also happy the plan is in motion.
• Toxicity aye, but also said it was down to personalities like Sancho, Rashford, Garnacho etc, and I've praised Amorim and INEOS for backing him in getting rid of them. Do you see toxicity in our squad right now? I don't.

Time does change things. The Glazers are still parasites and we'd be in a much, much stronger position without them, but I've defended INEOS on here plenty of times. They ultimately made a mistake with Amorim, but a lot of good came from his reign which will set up us better in the future. You're not going to get every managerial appointment bang on.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, KennyUtd said:

Not sure why a new stadium makes any difference to players available now. They're still only expected to submit plans in the next 12 to 18 months. It'll be 6 years away.

 

It's Yorkie who suggested our infrastructure as a potential reason why a player would think twice about leaving Newcastle to come to Man United. 

 

Do we think players see Old Trafford as a worse stadium than SJP? I've seen nothing to suggest that.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Would Bruno leave for 1 season in the CL with manchesters second club?  Chances are they’ll not qualify next season on league position with the amount of games they’ll play.
I say an unlikely move. 

 

But apparently it's all about success and trophies so none of what he's been a part of at Newcastle matters, and he should leave because they've recently managed to win more trophies despite how much of a mess they've been.

 

Makes you wonder why Bruno Fernandes has pissed away the last 6 years at Man United, when he could have been pushing to join the likes of Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona or PSG where he could be at an even bigger club that would have had him competing for even more success and trophies, as he's clearly good enough to do so.

[Kid Icarus]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I don't think I mentioned the Glazers. I can only assume Yorkie is talking about Ratcliffe's comments which I why I mentioned the owners.

 

But what things are you expecting me to compain about?

• The training facilities. INEOS pumped money in and we now have state of the art facilities. I'm happy about that.
• The leaks at Old Trafford, but INEOS have put a new stadium plan in motion. I'm a tad on the fence with how it's getting funded, but also happy the plan is in motion.
• Toxicity aye, but also said it was down to personalities like Sancho, Rashford, Garnacho etc, and I've praised Amorim and INEOS for backing him in getting rid of them. Do you see toxicity in our squad right now? I don't.

Time does change things. The Glazers are still parasites and we'd be in a much, much stronger position without them, but I've defended INEOS on here plenty of times. They ultimately made a mistake with Amorim, but a lot of good came from his reign which will set up us better in the future. You're not going to get every managerial appointment bang on.

No I know they weren't mentioned. My point is that when you're talking about the Glazers the things you're playing down, defending, and lauding now - eg cup wins, league finishes, leaking roof, toxicity within the club and more - are exactly the same things you cite as reasons they're failing Man United and by extension Man United itself is failing on their watch.

 

I've likened it to family before, people will criticise their own family members for their failings, but the moment someone outside the family makes the same criticisms, the automatic reaction isn't to agree, but to defend the family member from the outsider. 

[Froggy]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

But apparently it's all about success and trophies so none of what he's been a part of at Newcastle matters, and he should leave because they've recently managed to win more trophies despite how much of a mess they've been.

 

Makes you wonder why Bruno Fernandes has pissed away the last 6 years at Man United, when he could have been pushing to join the likes of Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona or PSG where he could be at an even bigger club that would have had him competing for even more success and trophies, as he's clearly good enough to do so.

 

If Madrid, Barcelona or PSG had come in for Bruno, I'd have been surprised if he had stayed.

[KaKa]

Shouldn't have signed a new contract in 2024 to make a move easier. Was clearly too good for Man United and should have just chased more trophies and success.

[Froggy]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

No I know they weren't mentioned. My point is that when you're talking about the Glazers the things you're playing down, defending, and lauding now - eg cup wins, league finishes, leaking roof, toxicity within the club and more - are exactly the same things you cite as reasons they're failing Man United and by extension Man United itself is failing on their watch.

 

I've likened it to family before, people will criticise their own family members for their failings, but the moment someone outside the family makes the same criticisms, the automatic reaction isn't to agree, but to defend the family member from the outsider. 

 

Trying to word this carefully so I don't come across as a prat as I've zero intention of doing so.

 

It's all relative to me. Maybe it's arrogant to say, but I feel like we should have had more success that we have had and we probably have a right to blame the Glazers for that, but we're still more successful than most. The argument is that a player wouldn't chose us over another club, in this case Newcastle. We've been more successful than Newcastle and I don't mean any disrespect with that. If Real Madrid came in for Bruno Fernandes, I would never suggest there's a reason for him to stay. (not suggesting the gap between us and yourselves is close to the gap between us and Madrid by the way, but just using it as an example).

 

A lot of the things that I've complained about in the past, such as the roof, the facilities etc. have been addressed by INEOS. I'm just making the point that I wouldn't agree they're valid reasons why a player wouldn't come to us.

[Froggy]

5 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Shouldn't have signed a new contract in 2024 to make a move easier. Was clearly too good for Man United and should have just chased more trophies and success.

 

I've never heard any serious noise about interest from clubs considered to be better than us though. 

 

Again, if PSG/Real/Barca etc. showed interested in Fernandes and were able to pay the fee required, I couldn't realistically suggest any reason why he should stay. He's already done his bit for us and is a club legend. The same can be said for Bruno G I'm sure.

[KaKa]

Right ... I'm sure there's never been any interest in him over the years from any other top clubs.

 

Fernandes clearly values his status and importance at Man United and has been willing to stick it out because of that, and so it's been about more than just chasing after trophies and success when a bigger or more successful club shows interest.

 

I doubt he would look at joining any of the other clubs in England during a period they've won more trophies with what he has meant to Man United over his time there, and would find it ridiculous if he did so.

 

 

[huss9]

Legacy and  being a club legend is overrated unfortunately.

To me we're massive but, in the grand scheme of things, we're a small club in the north east of England.

Bet Bruno was really excited  at the end of last season but even more disappointed by the end of the transfer window.

When he retires, it'll be about the trophies he's won, the world cups and Champions leagues he's played in.

 

Got over Supermac, Varadi, Gazza, Waddle, Beardsely, Sir Les, Carroll etc etc.... and I'll get over him (after some tears and tantrums).

[Dokko]

I'll bet you my account on here (against Froggy's) Bruno G doesn't sign for manure in the summer.

 

Loser is deleted.

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Trying to word this carefully so I don't come across as a prat as I've zero intention of doing so.

 

It's all relative to me. Maybe it's arrogant to say, but I feel like we should have had more success that we have had and we probably have a right to blame the Glazers for that, but we're still more successful than most. The argument is that a player wouldn't chose us over another club, in this case Newcastle. We've been more successful than Newcastle and I don't mean any disrespect with that. If Real Madrid came in for Bruno Fernandes, I would never suggest there's a reason for him to stay. (not suggesting the gap between us and yourselves is close to the gap between us and Madrid by the way, but just using it as an example).

 

A lot of the things that I've complained about in the past, such as the roof, the facilities etc. have been addressed by INEOS. I'm just making the point that I wouldn't agree they're valid reasons why a player wouldn't come to us.

 

Yeah, the argument you're making about players choosing Man United is all well and good I think, I wouldn't really disagree with that and wasn't really commenting on that, it was more just the defence of your club's current state in that context vs when you criticise it on other contexts that I was commenting on really. 

 

Only thing I would say is that the dynamic of our Bruno to you is a bit different to your Bruno to Real Madrid - similar to Isak, 99% of the issue our fans would have is selling him to a domestic rival. A nearer comparison would be if Arsenal wanted your Bruno imo, something I would imagine you'd have a problem with and would have you questioning your place in the food chain and his motivations over. 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Kid Icarus

[Eveready]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

I've never heard any serious noise about interest from clubs considered to be better than us though. 

 

Again, if PSG/Real/Barca etc. showed interested in Fernandes and were able to pay the fee required, I couldn't realistically suggest any reason why he should stay. He's already done his bit for us and is a club legend. The same can be said for Bruno G I'm sure.

What about if Arsenal or Man City were interested in Fernandes?  If we're doing our best to compare apples with apples then the comparison should be a transfer to another PL team.

[TheEntertainer]

Man Utd are 100% a bigger club and a more attractive prospect than Newcastle, I think the reason this would be painful though is that given recent history this is a medium step up rather than a massive one that's a no brainer for any player. 

[Froggy]

26 minutes ago, Eveready said:

What about if Arsenal or Man City were interested in Fernandes?  If we're doing our best to compare apples with apples then the comparison should be a transfer to another PL team.

 

We're arguably the biggest team in England though. It's us or Liverpool. Arsenal and City aren't really close. 

 

Arsenal certainly haven't won more either. All Arteta has to show for a billion quid and 6-7 years of build is the FA Cup with Emery's team. 

 

City's success is fair enough, but I think that's a bit more nuanced because they're our cross-city rivals. It would be bitter disappointment if he wanted to go to City. 

[Shearergol]

I think every player in our squad leaves us for Man United and their huge wages, other than Bruno G.

[Pixelphish]

11 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

I think every player in our squad leaves us for Man United and their huge wages, other than Bruno G.

 

And he's the only one I'd be annoyed/upset by so fingers crossed its utter shit.

[Eveready]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

We're arguably the biggest team in England though. It's us or Liverpool. Arsenal and City aren't really close. 

 

Arsenal certainly haven't won more either. All Arteta has to show for a billion quid and 6-7 years of build is the FA Cup with Emery's team. 

 

City's success is fair enough, but I think that's a bit more nuanced because they're our cross-city rivals. It would be bitter disappointment if he wanted to go to City. 

I'm not sure 'biggest' in terms of historical significance from when Ferguson retired almost 15 years ago is that relevant though.  If we're looking at the calibre of players that Arsenal and Man City have brought in over the past few years then they look like a significantly more attractive destination than Man Utd in the current landscape.

 

A potential move for either Bruno would be more down to the potential to win top tier trophies (Premier League or Champions League) in the latter years of his career, where Arsenal or Man City are far better placed to do so in the near future than Man Utd.  Bearing in mind Bruno G will be pushing 29 by the time next season starts I'm not sure that timeframe is a sure enough bet.

 

The Man City rivalry is a much more recent development, which is why I didn't include Liverpool in the list.  Although I understand it's much more of a one-way street, a lot of Newcastle fans would consider Man Utd their least liked club in the league after Sunderland due to the rivalry in the 90s, similar to how I'd imagine Man Utd fans would consider Man City their 2nd most hated club after Liverpool.

 

Bruno has spoken many times about how he wants to be seen as a club legend at Newcastle and a move to Man Utd would significantly damage that relationship with our fans, similar to how you would see Fernandes moving to Man City as quite a betrayal.

 

I don't think many Newcastle fans would begrudge Bruno moving to another European club, even say a club the size of Atletico.  It's more around how he's spoken about the club, the fans, the area, his legacy and how important they are to him - moving to Man Utd would be a pretty tone-deaf move after all that.