Flair players and the boo-boys

[Big Geordie]

Just now, LV said:

He’s nowhere near those two 

 

Yup - he's nowhere near their level, but they still used to get stick. Thing is, we could have a Man City type of side and there would be still a flair player that the boo-boys would target. I've seen it before.

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, Big Geordie said:

Whilst Ginola/Robert delivered, they were part of good sides - but still got grief about not tracking back/being lazy. ASM is a flair player and frustrating, but he's also playing in a very limited side whilst going through a patch of dodgy form. In a better side with better player around him, he will become a better player. Keep the faith.

 

It's also worth remembering that I'm old enough for to remember Gazza and Beardsley getting the bird, during the mid-late 80's. For some folk, there is no pleasing!

 

Ginola won the PFA player of the year in a bang average Spurs side in 1999.

I don't remember Beardsley getting the slightest criticism second time around or Ginola until Shearer then Dogleash started moaning a year later.

Speaking of which I read an old match report criticising Shearer the other day. You cannot compare the contributions so why can't we criticise a player whose had one good game this year?

 

Were beyond HBA, ASM providing some entertainment on an otherwise pointless afternoon now and looking for what makes the team more likely to win.

 

PS has their been any booing anyway?

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Guest reefatoon]

1 minute ago, Wolfcastle said:

 

Ginola won the PFA player of the year in a bang average Spurs side in 1999.

I don't remember Beardsley getting the slightest criticism second time around or Ginola until Shearer then Dogleash started moaning a year later.

Speaking of which I read an old match report criticising Shearer the other day. You cannot compare the contributions so why can't we criticise a player whose had one good game this year?

 

Were beyond HBA, ASM providing some entertainment on an otherwise pointless afternoon now and looking for what makes the team more likely to win.

 

Yeah but those step overs against palace were just so dreamy.

[HaydnNUFC]

19 minutes ago, HUGZ said:

it’s laughable ASM is even mentioned in the same breath as Ginola or Robert.

 

They're all different players in their own way but ASM's goal involvement per 90 is very similar to Robert's. Robert also took set pieces and was crossing the ball to Alan Shearer. ASM has been to Chris Wood.

[Sima]

53 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

 

As I said in the OP, Ginola and Robert were still pulled up, despite the assists and goals.

Ginola and Robert were light years ahead of Saint Maximin.

[Big Geordie]

4 minutes ago, Wolfcastle said:

 

Ginola won the PFA player of the year in a bang average Spurs side in 1999.

I don't remember Beardsley getting the slightest criticism second time around or Ginola until Shearer then Dogleash started moaning a year later.

Speaking of which I read an old match report criticising Shearer the other day. You cannot compare the contributions so why can't we criticise a player whose had one good game this year?

 

Were beyond HBA, ASM providing some entertainment on an otherwise pointless afternoon now and looking for what makes the team more likely to win.

 

PS has their been any booing anyway?

 

 

 

 

 

Beardsley got stick in the season that we almost went down - 86/87, as did Gazza. How do I know? Because I was there.

[Guest reefatoon]

Can’t remember Gazza getting any stick like. I was also there.

[Big Geordie]

1 minute ago, Sima said:

Ginola and Robert were light years ahead of Saint Maximin.

 

Erhmm...... I've said they were?

[Wolfcastle]

Opinion was mixed on Baggio with Juve and Italy when he was the best player in the world.

Got injured, couldn't get back in the side, Juventus won the league for the first time in 10years, sold him, won the champions league the year after, went on to dominate.

Depends if you want to marvel over a beautiful footballer like Baggio or improve the team and have a better chance to win things.

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Wolfcastle]

Just now, Big Geordie said:

 

Beardsley got stick in the season that we almost went down - 86/87, as did Gazza. How do I know? Because I was there.

I said second time around in fairness

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Wish Saint-Maximin was even half as good as some of our fans think he is. 

 

This isn't a 'patch' of form, he's been poor all season.

[Superior Acuña]

In the Bobby days there was a guy in front of me who absolutely despised Robert. Would go at him all game, was really fucking annoying, don't know what pleasure he got from going to the match. Can't imagine what he was like when we went back to being shit (think he quit when we came 5th under Bobby).

[HaydnNUFC]

Once our fans have got a picture painted a la ASM for a few now, there's no way back. Can't wait until he starts to get jeered at during games, that's the next phase.

[loki679]

1 hour ago, Big Geordie said:

 

[Guest reefatoon]

Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

Once our fans have got a picture painted a la ASM for a few now, there's no way back. Can't wait until he starts to get jeered at during games, that's the next phase.

Don’t agree mind. Joelinton has shown that you can turn it around with the fans when you put a bit of effort in.

[maze]

ASM is not comparable to those named in the OP.  ASM is fun to watch because he sometimes manages some flukes waving his hands like a chicken and drumming his feet like incontrollable drumsticks. But that's about it.

With HBA, for example, it was just so much more quality there, and Robert was pure class at the time.

You could probably argue he'd do better with better players around him, he seems to think so himself... he might be right, I might be wrong. But he will be nowhere near those named in the OP.

[Sima]

8 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

 

Erhmm...... I've said they were?

Weird to bring them up then.  Probably better off comparing Saint Maximin to Lua Lua.  It’s more his level.

[LV]

Just now, Sima said:

Weird to bring them up then.  Probably better off comparing Saint Maximin to Lua Lua.  It’s more his level.

I think you’re right there, he definitely flatters to deceive.

 

And he’s never, ever going to be a good defender. 

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, reefatoon said:

Don’t agree mind. Joelinton has shown that you can turn it around with the fans when you put a bit of effort in.

 

I don't believe that ASM is putting in no effort. He is what he is; a winger with loads of pace and a lot of flair who wants to take people on and at the most of times will frustrate the hell out of you. He won't often track back, it isn't his game. He'll improve once we improve the players around him; us going forward after Trippier and Wilson came on today improved him, Bruno et al. I'd wait to see next season what he's like as he needs a huge reset. Certainly wouldn't sell him and don't think that he isn't very good. He's carried this club for 3 years.

[Kid Icarus]

If Ginola, Robert, and HBA got grief from the fucking clear it heeds, ASM will. Pay them no mind, if you rate him and think he deserves support, use your voice to be one of the people that gives him support.

[magorific]

1 hour ago, LV said:

He’s not and never will be a left back. He’s not a defensively trained player at all, that’s not his strength.

 

If we’re at a point where we have to rely on ASM to stop a goal then something has already gone wrong. 

Nobody's asking him to be a left-back. They're just asking him to do a very basic thing: track their full-back when he tries to overload us.

The fact is that the better teams in the modern game no longer carry "flair players" who refuse (not are incapable, but refuse) to work hard without the ball.

[LV]

3 minutes ago, magorific said:

Nobody's asking him to be a left-back. They're just asking him to do a very basic thing: track their full-back when he tries to overload us.

The fact is that the better teams in the modern game no longer carry "flair players" who refuse (not are incapable, but refuse) to work hard without the ball.

Does he refuse? 
 

He was there with the player but he was slow to react. I don’t think he refuses, I just don’t think he know how to defend. 
 

Like I said, if we’re having to rely on ASM to stop an attacking move in the left back position then something has already gone wrong and others haven’t done their job.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by LV

[Numbers]

ASM deserves all the abuse he is getting at the moment, needs to get out of his huff, stop rolling around and whining when he gets tacked and play for the team, which includes an element of working in defense.

[TheHoob]

13 minutes ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Wish Saint-Maximin was even half as good as some of our fans think he is. 

 

This isn't a 'patch' of form, he's been poor all season.

 

I'm not one of the ones saying he's beyond criticism and he has been shite for a few months now but that's just not true. 

[Guest reefatoon]

3 minutes ago, LV said:

Does he refuse? 
 

He was there with the player but he was slow to react. I don’t think he refuses, I just don’t think he know how to defend. 

Don’t get hung up on the defending bit though. His overall game has been really poor for a long time now. Too busy rolling around on the floor for ages after every tackle, whinging about every challenge, sitting there platoon style everytime he falls on his arse. It’s those parts of his game that have been pissing me off over the last couple of months. Opposition defenders see that and know they have the beating of him straight away. 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by reefatoon