Flair players and the boo-boys

[Yassassin]

10 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Ginola and Robert were criticised over exactly the same things by plenty of people like. I spent most of the last year Ginola was with us defending him amongst my mates and my dad's mates. Likewise Robert, especially under Souness.

 

It's why I don't even waste my time anymore, if people are going to criticise those 2 (and Ben Arfa), no one else has a chance with those people and no amount of goals, assists, or stats in general will ever change their minds.

 

 

 

Hence Robert hoyed everything but his underpants into the Gallowgate when he knew that he was going to be offloaded. He knew in what regard he was held

[Big Geordie]

Robert did get plenty stick and always divided opinion. However, put his goals and assists on the table and that shut folk up.

 

ASM has been a perhaps lone bright spark in a poor side, since he joined us.

[Yorkie]

The aggression towards ASM from a couple of blokes behind me at the Leicester game was easily the worst I've ever heard. Presuming it's a racism thing as well as everything else tbh, despite there being no overt racist language. Just disproportionate levels of totally unjustified abuse. 

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Yassassin said:

Hence Robert hoyed everything but his underpants into the Gallowgate when he knew that he was going to be offloaded. He knew in what regard he was held

 

You could easily say the same about ASM, there are plenty who love him, that doesn't mean the boo boys aren't there too. N-O was having the same discussions it's having about ASM 8 years ago about HBA and 17 years ago about Robert. Ginola was booed when he came back a couple of times as well. We look back with rose-tinted glasses now and they're rightly held in high regard, but it wasn't universal at the time. 

[Wolfcastle]

Wonder if there's a paralell between Robert and ASM.

Robert could be frustrating under Sir Bobby because we had little room for improvement and his working harder could be a crucial percentage point for us, whereas under Souness you'd sacrifice that gladly for his assists and set pieces because there was massive room for improvement and naff all else.

ASM is now, a worse version of Robert under Sir Bobby where he was Robert under Souness under Bruce.

 

[The Prophet]

He's not been in good form of late (thought he was much better today mind), but let's not pretend the criticism of him has been a recent thing.

[Pata]

2 hours ago, Yassassin said:

Robert and Ginola were adored. They left because of managers who didn’t rate them not because of fan opinion; unanimity is rare but the love of Ginola and Robert was as close as you’d get

 

 

 

Robert got loads of abuse for laziness and shooting from everywhere. He left because of Souness but I’m sure thousands of NUFC fans were happy to get rid him of.

[Kid Icarus]

16 minutes ago, Pata said:

Robert got loads of abuse for laziness and shooting from everywhere. He left because of Souness but I’m sure thousands of NUFC fans were happy to get rid him of.

 

They definitely were. Different type of player, but plenty were happy to be rid of supposed trouble maker Bellamy as well.

[Darth Crooks]

This thread sounds like a 60’s tribute act

[Conjo]

Some players are so talented that you're willing to let a lack of pressing and tracking back slide, for them to conserve their energy in order to do their magic. It's a bit of a lose-lose situation for flair players. If they're not on form, you at least want them to put in the work, however how are they supposed to find form if they don't have the energy to do the stuff they can do? It's a tricky topic. 

 

I don't think ASM, while obviously a very talented footballer, is even close to HBA, Robert and Ginola so I'm not sure I'd include him in the above personally. If we're speaking FM terms, he's 20 dribbling and flair but 10 technique and first touch so unable to be effective while doing what he is good at.

 

Can he still develop? Maybe, and he deserves a chance next season imo next to better players to show us he can be the player he says he wants to be. In the meantime give Elliott the last two matches to test himself at this level.

[TRC]

The biggest difference between Hatem, Robert , Ginola and Maxi is end product and a much higher understanding of the game. 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by TRC

[Guest HTT II]

Players in not playing well getting stick off fans shock…

 

ASM has had more support than stick from the stands, any stick is mainly amplified online anyway where people debate the ins and outs of his game. 
 

There has been no boo boys with ASM.

 

 

[Groundhog63]

Frustrating as ASM is atm I'm hoping, like others, that with better players around him there'll be more product. Whilst "flair players" have always been moaned about I think it's magnified now because we've all got 24hr access to watch modern "flair players", who are top players at top clubs, graft their balls off as well. 

[James]

12 hours ago, Flip said:

ASM isn't immune to criticism, but he's quite clearly one of the least of our worries. Or are people going to tell me they'd rather start Almiron, Murphy, Fraser, Ritchie over him? We haven't seen what kind of damage his talent can do in a proper team. 

thing is you have named three players who are playing better than he has in 2022.

[Flip]

1 hour ago, James said:

thing is you have named three players who are playing better than he has in 2022.

 

That's not true at all is it? Fraser is the only one that is debatable, since he's had a revival under Howe. Anyone suggesting they'd start Almiron or Murphy ahead of ASM is bat shit crazy, with all due respect. 

 

[Guest]

 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Guest]

I have been going to matches since the early seventies and I think Big Geordie’s point is a fair one.

 

Gascoigne and Robert we’re both examples of flair players who the crowd did turn on at times. That is definitely true. In Beardsley’s case I think it was more when he was destined to leave.

 

But it is also true that the crowd can turn on local players too or players who work hard but lack skill. Tommy Gibb got so sick of the abuse he was getting that he asked to be excused from playing in home games at one point! 

 

Only the best flair players tend to also include consistency, work-rate and defensive qualities in their game. Jimmy Smith could be a world-beater at times but was regularly dropped due to lacklustre displays or for causing goals by losing possession in midfield.

 

These days having a flair player on the wing has inherent dangers because of the increasing importance of wing-backs in attacking play. So time and time again ASM has been caught out.

 

Of  course Keegan didn’t believe his winners needed to defend. I can well remember Beresford having a furious row with him during a game because Ginola was leaving him continually exposed. It was Beresford who was substituted.

 

No  player should be above criticism and ASM does not help himself with his comments and body language but there does seem to be an inbuilt characteristic of the Gallowgate crowd to turn on some players at particular times.