Fezzle Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Given, Trippier, Woodgate, Albert, Enrique, Solano, Lee, Speed, Bruno, Beardsley, Shearer without really thinking too much about it. Would no doubt change 3/4 if i overthink it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 No top team has GKs the profile of Given. The GK role has evolved far beyond what Given could do. He was a great shot-stopper and consistent. What else was he good at? - Distribution and generally bad with his feet - He didn't command his area or collect crosses often - Sweeper keeper, absolutely not - Penalty saving record was woeful That's why there's so few top keepers in today's game. They have to do a lot more. That's what makes Pope such a great keeper. Great at the traditional stuff (penalties, shot stopping, commanding his area) and he can sweep it up. If he was good with his feet / on the ball he would be one of the best in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: No top team has GKs the profile of Given. The GK role has evolved far beyond what Given could do. He was a great shot-stopper and consistent. What else was he good at? - Distribution and generally bad with his feet - He didn't command his area or collect crosses often - Sweeper keeper, absolutely not - Penalty saving record was woeful That's why there's so few top keepers in today's game. They have to do a lot more. That's what makes Pope such a great keeper. Great at the traditional stuff (penalties, shot stopping, commanding his area) and he can sweep it up. If he was good with his feet / on the ball he would be one of the best in the world. The thing is I don't think it's fair to compare players of a different generation to that of the current one as naturally as time goes by, footballers are going to get better as technology and physical understanding improves, and what someone in a certain position is expected to do, differs so wildly from one generation to another. So if you're doing it based purely on today's standards you'd basically just pick the current squad, these sorts of things are always subjective to the eye of the person making the teams and what they remember and perceive, there isn't a right or wrong answer really. Take Given for example, I don't think anyone is arguing he'd be a top class keeper in today's game, but at the time he was around he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Tiote? I know everyone sees things differently and that’s amazing but Jesus Christ that’s a mad pick. There’s a reason Rafa didn’t want him anywhere near the side even in the Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideopenMag Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: Tiote? I know everyone sees things differently and that’s amazing but Jesus Christ that’s a mad pick. There’s a reason Rafa didn’t want him anywhere near the side even in the Championship. Nearly as hilarious as the Ben Arfa suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, WideopenMag said: Nearly as hilarious as the Ben Arfa suggestions. Sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butcher Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Favourite XI innit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, 54 said: The thing is I don't think it's fair to compare players of a different generation to that of the current one as naturally as time goes by, footballers are going to get better as technology and physical understanding improves, and what someone in a certain position is expected to do, differs so wildly from one generation to another. So if you're doing it based purely on today's standards you'd basically just pick the current squad, these sorts of things are always subjective to the eye of the person making the teams and what they remember and perceive, there isn't a right or wrong answer really. Take Given for example, I don't think anyone is arguing he'd be a top class keeper in today's game, but at the time he was around he was. Generally, I agree with your point that expectations have changed. And a lot of those changes are different rather than being better. Example I think the requirements at CB are different today but not necessarily making today's CBs better. I think Colo would have a better PL career today. More emphasis on playing football and interceptions, reading danger - less emphasis on physical strength, less contested headers etc. But Goalkeeping today more talent. Fullback too. You still need all the traditional skills but now you need other things or be so good at the traditional things that it doesn't matter. And even 15/20 years ago I thought Given was over-rated. The best GKs in his era all had one thing in common. They commanded their area. Given never did that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideopenMag Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Sure. Honestly baffled by his inclusion. He was certainly talented but in no way a Newcastle great more of a missed opportunity and what could have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, WideopenMag said: Honestly baffled by his inclusion. He was certainly talented but in no way a Newcastle great more of a missed opportunity and what could have been. Oh boy. You’ve gone and done it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Colo got murdered by Shane Long. All forwards are super athletes now and he’d still struggle hugely in any team that doesn’t sit very deep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I liked Hatem a lot but I don’t see where you can fit him in really. Had much better options out wide and you couldn’t put a player like that in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 My favourite XI for funsies Pope Trippier Schar Woodgate Enrique Bruno Lee Speed HBA Isak Shearer A more serious XI would take out HBA, Speed and Isak and replace with Nobby, Robert and Beardo in a sort of 4411. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideopenMag Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, AJ9 said: My favourite XI for funsies Pope Trippier Schar Woodgate Enrique Bruno Lee Speed HBA Isak Shearer A more serious XI would take out HBA, Speed and Isak and replace with Nobby, Robert and Beardo in a sort of 4411. Good to see Schar getting some mentions, think he's massively underrated outside of Newcastle fans. Not many id swap him for in the league tbh. Edited November 20, 2023 by WideopenMag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Ben Arfa is very similar to Schar in that we'll never know just how good he was/is without having him play in his best position. Given how much of an attacking talent he is, its a shame we never got to see him play as a central defender to satisfy those who sided with Pardew when it came to lambasting an attacking talent like Ben Arfa for not defending enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Given Trippier Schar Botman Enrique Lee Bruno Beardsley Robert Isak Shearer Asymmetrical title winners. Left back the one glaring weakness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: Colo got murdered by Shane Long. All forwards are super athletes now and he’d still struggle hugely in any team that doesn’t sit very deep. He'd do okay i think, it's not like schar and botman are blessed with pace and they've been great playing a highline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, andycap said: He'd do okay i think, it's not like schar and botman are blessed with pace and they've been great playing a highline. Coloccini was a physically small CB who got bullied out of the way on a regular basis though. They don’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I'd go Popey/krul in his pomp Trippier Enrique Schar Woodgate Lee Bruno Solano Robert Beardsley Shearer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: Coloccini was a physically small CB who got bullied out of the way on a regular basis though. They don’t. Fair do's. But he had technical ability and a good reading of the game alongside a botman I'd think he'd be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ronaldo said: Colo got murdered by Shane Long. All forwards are super athletes now and he’d still struggle hugely in any team that doesn’t sit very deep. Shane Long played with a partner up-top - right up against the CB. Shane Long wouldn't play up against Colo in 2023. He would be stuck out on the wing. I was never Colo's biggest fan but the 4-4-2 era, deep line.. didn't suit him Edited November 20, 2023 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 My point was you couldn’t play a high line with a defender like that. None of the clubs in the current top half have a starting CB so susceptible to athleticism / physicality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Given Trippier Albert Woodgate Beresford Solano Lee Beardsley Ginola Cole Shearer Subs: Pavel, Venison, Howey, Ferdinand, Cabaye, Robert, Cisse, Speed, Gillespie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Karelse Khizanishvili (sp) Dumas Beharall Serrant Brady Hamilton Fumaca Troisi Shearer Ignacio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: My point was you couldn’t play a high line with a defender like that. None of the clubs in the current top half have a starting CB so susceptible to athleticism / physicality. I wouldn't have believed Schar could play in a back 4, in a high-line. I would've described him in similar terms to Colo before Eddie. Poor in the air, slow, not the strongest physically. But a good ball player. In this era if a defender can get the ball aggressively or smartly up the pitch - he doesn't need to be the strongest or quickest. Especially if the defensive line is well coached. They are often not marking a particular striker either. Physicality is much less important in this era as a CB. Lisandro Martinez was the best defender for the team that kept the most clean sheets last season. Lisandro Martinez doesn't make it in the PL as a CB in 2001. I refuse to believe it. This is a different era. Different skills are needed. Even Johnny Evans. His style is much better suited to this era. Less physical. More intelligence, interceptions and ball-playing. He wouldn't want to see Shola Ameobi & Demba Ba in 2-man attack though. I sometimes watch Rio's podcast and he talks about it a lot. It's a different era for CBs - much less physical and less touch defending with strikers, less autonomy to lead others. But a lot more demanding in terms of understanding the game and playing with the ball. Edited November 20, 2023 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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