SUPERTOON Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said: Think this is the key really. Our manager wants a player, whatever we happen to think of him, if we've learned anything it's that EH can coach and get performances out of anyone. This is true, but you can still only get so far improving average players. Summer is the time to go for real quality in the key areas imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: They do in one season, if you check his full breakdown not so much. There are lots of red flags in his numbers and beyond that the eye test also applies. If Howe wants him that’s his choice, he’s not God and people are allowed to question it. All stats are fallible, see Chris Wood’s “headers won” stat. Breaking news everyone, apparently Howe is not God In my opinion, if you bring in a manager you give him the players he wants so that any judgement of his performance can be completely fair. If he brings in any players and it doesn't pan out and it leads to poor performances then he can be held fully culpable. Simple. Edited March 5, 2023 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Not sure why there’s so much squabbling. Eddie and his team know what they want to improve and will have scouting reports and stats etc. If they think he’s worth buying its for a specific reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Just now, SUPERTOON said: This is true, but you can still only get so far improving average players. Summer is the time to go for real quality in the key areas imo. And I think we will. I was just making a point of trust in Howe as a coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Breaking news everyone, apparently Howe is not God In my opinion, if you bring in a manager you give him the players he wants so that any judgement of his performance can be completely fair. If he brings in any players that doesn't pan out and it leads to poor performances then he can be held fully culpable. Simple. well yeah but I’m not acting as if he can’t be questioned. What is the literal point of a discussion forum if we just go “Howe liked him so I can’t say he’s a bad player”? If Howe wanted to sign Jack Colback are we not going to be able to say “Colback is gash”? It makes no sense at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Breaking news everyone, apparently Howe is not God In my opinion, if you bring in a manager you give him the players he wants so that any judgement of his performance can be completely fair. If he brings in any players that doesn't pan out and it leads to poor performances then he can be held fully culpable. Simple. He can and that should be balanced out by the players he’s improved. no-one said he’s a god but we’ve got half of the Bruce team and squad, I’m happy to judge Howe at the end of next season at a minimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: This is true, but you can still only get so far improving average players. Summer is the time to go for real quality in the key areas imo. It’s slightly untrue, Jordan Ibe was objectively ass when Howe signed him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 I’m not doubting Howe’s ability to pick a player, I’m doubting the credibility of rumour that Howe wants him, because it would make no sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said: Not sure why there’s so much squabbling. Eddie and his team know what they want to improve and will have scouting reports and stats etc. If they think he’s worth buying its for a specific reason. Because deep down I don't think most really rate him or his decisions and are just waiting for things to go a little bit wrong before pouncing on him for being too nice like we've started hearing recently, or whatever other nonsense. They want name brand managers and players and just want to go down the Chelsea route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelrouser Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 McTominay is a slightly better Longstaff and four years older. There will be cheaper, younger, and better options for us. We need James Maddison though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Because deep down I don't think most really rate him or his decisions and are just waiting for things to go a little bit wrong before pouncing on him for being too nice like we've started hearing recently, or whatever other nonsense. They want name brand managers and players and just want to go down the Chelsea route. What a load of rubbish, people don’t rate Mctominay so they wanting to do a Chelsea and are waiting for Howe to fail. Absolute nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, rebelrouser said: McTominay is a slightly better Longstaff and four years older. There will be cheaper, younger, and better options for us. We need James Maddison though. 4 years older? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 The thing with McTominay that the numbers won't really show is the cowardice in his play, fbref doesn't have a stat for hiding and that's where stats don't really show the full picture when it comes to judging a player Now is that something Howe can coach? Possibly but you shouldn't need to coach an almost 27 year not to hide from the football I love Howe and trust him (I was among the few defending him in Jan 2022) but think signing McTominay would be a mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, rebelrouser said: McTominay is a slightly better Longstaff and four years older. There will be cheaper, younger, and better options for us. We need James Maddison though. Just looked. He’s just over 13 months older than Longstaff? I think we should be aiming a lot higher than McTominay. But I didn’t think that age sounded right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) KaKa, you're being weird. It's absolutely fine and reasonable to mildly question the worth in signing Fred Mc-Fucking-Tominay for a team looking to win the league in the near future, especially if you're literally a football scout. Edited March 5, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Just now, SUPERTOON said: What a load of rubbish, people don’t rate Mctominay so they wanting to do a Chelsea and are waiting for Howe to fail. Absolute nonsense. I love Howe, and think Chelsea’s business has been mostly bad aside Enzo. I would hope our scouting network have been able to ID players outside of Scott McTominay. I’d hope we can be looking at players similar to Caicedo or Palhina (pre their moves to the PL) or line wolves have done with Neves etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: The thing with McTominay that the numbers won't really show is the cowardice in his play, fbref doesn't have a stat for hiding and that's where stats don't really show the full picture when it comes to judging a player Now is that something Howe can coach? Possibly but you shouldn't need to coach an almost 27 year not to hide from the football I love Howe and trust him (I was among the few defending him in Jan 2022) but think signing McTominay would be a mistake Exactly and even then it does show a bit in his passing stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: well yeah but I’m not acting as if he can’t be questioned. What is the literal point of a discussion forum if we just go “Howe liked him so I can’t say he’s a bad player”? If Howe wanted to sign Jack Colback are we not going to be able to say “Colback is gash”? It makes no sense at all. No, you make no sense at all, because I never said anything about whether I think he is a good player or not, or anything about questioning it. My whole thing is you back your manager and he either excels or he hangs himself. I'd fully have the managers back over anyone on here, based purely on what he has achieved in just over a year, with a number of players that folks on here were screaming were shit. I just don't trust most on here when it comes to judging players, because it's usually based on emotion and stuff that isn't purely down to on field performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, KaKa said: No, you make no sense at all, because I never said anything about whether I think he is a good player or not, or anything about questioning it. My whole thing is you back your manager and he either excels or he hangs himself. I'd fully have the managers back over anyone on here, based purely on what he has achieved in just over a year, with a number of players that folks on here were screaming were shit. I just don't trust most on here when it comes to judging players, because it's usually based on emotion and stuff that isn't purely down to on field performances. I mean not really but this discussion is going absolutely nowhere pretty much. So let’s just leave it at that. I’m not speaking for anyone else purely myself, and im not really in the habit of judging players on emotion, I just don’t think McTominay is a good player and my opinion isn’t altered by whether Howe does or not. He can have his opinion and I can have mine. Edited March 5, 2023 by Sempiternal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, KaKa said: No, you make no sense at all, because I never said anything about whether I think he is a good player or not, or anything about questioning it. My whole thing is you back your manager and he either excels or he hangs himself. I'd fully have the managers back over anyone on here, based purely on what he has achieved in just over a year, with a number of players that folks on here were screaming were shit. I just don't trust most on here when it comes to judging players, because it's usually based on emotion and stuff that isn't purely down to on field performances. So presumably you don't have any opinions on any players then? What a load of nonsense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: KaKa, you're being weird. It's absolutely fine and reasonable to mildly question the worth in signing Fred Mc-Fucking-Tominay for a team looking to win the league in the near future, especially if you're literally a football scout. To be fair I responded to a post in the first placed that stated 'We'd better not sign McTominay', which I found hilarious tbh. Also, I just don't really have time anymore for posts that just state a player is shit, because it's just so weak and doesn't really say anything. So if we are really looking at him do you really think the manager and all those involved in recruitment are really that fucking stupid that they just want to go out and sign someone that is just flat out shit?! As if players can't play different roles in different setups at a different club, and be able to offer something else that is valuable. So strange man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, KaKa said: To be fair I responded to a post in the first placed that stated 'We'd better not sign McTominay', which I found hilarious tbh. Also, I just don't really have time anymore for posts that just state a player is shit, because it's just so weak and doesn't really say anything. So if we are really looking at him do you really think the manager and all those involved in recruitment are really that fucking stupid that they just want to go out and sign someone that is just flat out shit?! As if players can't play different roles in different setups at a different club, and be able to offer something else that is valuable. So strange man. I can’t speak on Newcastle’s team but you’d be very surprised at some of the incompetence that is pervasive in football. Of course no elite footballer is “shit”, it’s a matter of context, they are just descriptive words. Players are still getting released for being “too small”, sad but true and recruitment teams are not infallible they make mistakes. I’m just giving my opinion on the player, I’ve been wrong plenty of times, like anyone would be. My point is that whether Howe likes him or not is irrelevant to me personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 McTominay is a head scratcher like. I'd like someone to show me some stats that say he's mint at something because I just can't see it. It would be like signing a more defensive minded Longstaff, which wouldn't move us forward at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) You've been banging on that Zaha is shit for years Kaka Would you be happy if we bought him? Edited March 5, 2023 by joeyt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: So presumably you don't have any opinions on any players then? What a load of nonsense Okay, well here's my opinion on MCTominay ... I think he's a big, athletic midfielder that plays with a lot of intensity. I've seen him do things at times that are surprisingly good, and I've seen him do dumb stuff at times too. There is some ability there, and certainly valuable attributes to work with. In my opinion describing him as shit is silly. I do not think it is beyond the realm of possibility that with more regular playing time and a more specified and consistent role in the team, with better individual coaching and direction that he could be a valuable piece, especially if the manager sees something he likes in him. Calling him shit and acting as if him being a terrible signing would be a certainty is just weird to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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