João Pedro

[SteV]

Just now, wyn davies said:

Brighton may want £100m,  plus they may have a chance of Europe which cause issues.

 

Go elsewhere I say, nevermind all this over the odds crap for PL proven players.

If they want £100m, we’re having a very short conversation, followed by putting a big red line through his name.

[r0cafella]

Hmm after thinking about it, IF the price is reasonable this could actually make sense.

 

What I'm thinking is a shape which we would see as a 4-4-1-1 (Think Eddie at Bournemouth) but with a more a Simeone esque twist.

 

                          Pope

Tino    NEW CB     Botman Hall

 

NEW RW  Bruno  Sandro  AG/HB

                         JP

                         Isak

 

The basic Idea would be the out of possession high press would be a 4-4-2 which provides great coverage and blocks a lot of passing lanes but dropping into a low block 4-5-1 with a lot of compression and a very narrow width funneling everyone outside to cross. Because the system is so narrow and we have a new CB who can run we can actually push up and leave our midfielders with less ground to cover (this is one of our huge issues, we ask a lot of our midfielders which is why we need 3 of them). 

 

Some issues exist of course, your pushing Big Joe who's one of our highest earners to be a squad player but he'd get a lot of minutes as he'd had to provide relief for 3 roles at least. 

[KingArthur]

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

What we are talking about is taking Joelinton out the side and replacing him with Joao Pedro. That means taking out a player capable of running up and down for 90 minutes, chasing opposition down and physically dominating them offensively and defensively. In his place you would have a more attack minded player, with greater technique, vision and eye for goal, more comfortable on the ball in tight spaces. 
 

For that to work - you can’t play with the same intense level of vertical football. Less reliant on Joelinton winning the ball high up on the press (and we score a lot of goals like this) and more reliant on build up play.  Less reliant on Joelinton tracking back runners with 2 players responsible for tracking runs at all times. 
 

Botman is great on the ball and we plan to bring in another ball playing defender. We also seem to want to sign a ball playing GK. 

 

If we want to continue to primarily play a flat 433 - this JP signing doesn’t make much sense. He could only lay the Isak role and that’s not his best position imo. If we want to change formation that uses 1 less CM - it makes a lot more sense. It also means that JP technically covers 2 positions for the cost of 1.  
 

He replaces a CM should we play with a double pivot.  And he can fill in for Isak if we want to play 433. So he’s the new Wilson and essentially a new CM all in one. 

That would be moronic change, yes.

Pedro could perhaps also play as wideman in our front 3, but I highly doubt that and we have players for that space already.

 

I think this rumour is a non starter, for many reasons. 

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Hmm after thinking about it, IF the price is reasonable this could actually make sense.

 

What I'm thinking is a shape which we would see as a 4-4-1-1 (Think Eddie at Bournemouth) but with a more a Simeone esque twist.

 

                          Pope

Tino    NEW CB     Botman Hall

 

NEW RW  Bruno  Sandro  AG/HB

                         JP

                         Isak

 

The basic Idea would be the out of possession high press would be a 4-4-2 which provides great coverage and blocks a lot of passing lanes but dropping into a low block 4-5-1 with a lot of compression and a very narrow width funneling everyone outside to cross. Because the system is so narrow and we have a new CB who can run we can actually push up and leave our midfielders with less ground to cover (this is one of our huge issues, we ask a lot of our midfielders which is why we need 3 of them). 

 

Some issues exist of course, your pushing Big Joe who's one of our highest earners to be a squad player but he'd get a lot of minutes as he'd had to provide relief for 3 roles at least. 

This is pretty much what I’m saying. We might even get a GK too. 
 

It allows us to play 

433 - No JP

3 at the back 

4231-4411

 

Depending on opponent and availability.  
 

I think we’ve seen last season - to compete in CL and compete to requalify you need 15-16 players who would expect to start every week. Other teams have players the quality of Joelinton, Barnes, Trippier and Schar on the bench.  
 

Arsenal subbed Saliba for their 5th choicd CB - a current Italian starter. Ew.  

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

That would be moronic change, yes.

Pedro could perhaps also play as wideman in our front 3, but I highly doubt that and we have players for that space already.

 

I think this rumour is a non starter, for many reasons. 

It’s the main stylistic change from Klopp to Slot. Or Villa 23 to Villa 25. Similar fundamentals, more control, less chaos. 

[KingArthur]

57 minutes ago, Checko said:

I think it's more about being able to control possession and save the constant running back and forth. At least it is for me. You can protect your legs by just getting on the ball and make the opposition chase you for a bit.

 

IMO we're very reliant on turnovers and quick counters and really struggle when we can't do that (eg from goal kicks). It also means when momentum goes against us in a game we can't take the sting out of things. (Eg Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham).

 

Obviously having Pope and Burn doesn't help, but even when not under much pressure we're still not very good at it & I personally think the 433 with just one DM coming deep doesn't work in play out from the back situations. It's really predictable, everyone's too far apart, Isak stays isolated which isn't really his game.

 

I think the 4231 gives more control around the DM/CB area which allows more secure build up and if we do need to boot it long, means there's actually someone near the striker to cchallenge for the second ball. Plus they have to commit another player forward if they want to press both DMs, leaving a bit more space if we want to go over the top.

 

4-2-3-1 pretty much turns in to 4-5-1 when we are defending. Exactly like 4-3-3. Then again if we play with 2 clear defensive midfielders, that leaves Pedro and Isak quite isolated. Bruno doesn't have the legs to run along quick counters, so that would be left to Tonali. Who already is everywhere... 

Our wide players should come in to challenge for the 2nd ball if we have to go long. 

[KingArthur]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

It’s the main stylistic change from Klopp to Slot. Or Villa 23 to Villa 25. Similar fundamentals, more control, less chaos. 

Main change from Klopp to Slot is more control yes, but that isn't just down to formation change. 

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

Main change from Klopp to Slot is more control yes, but that isn't just down to formation change. 

Yeah it requires a change in tactics and personnel which is what I’m suggesting. 

 

6 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

4-2-3-1 pretty much turns in to 4-5-1 when we are defending. Exactly like 4-3-3. Then again if we play with 2 clear defensive midfielders, that leaves Pedro and Isak quite isolated. Bruno doesn't have the legs to run along quick counters, so that would be left to Tonali. Who already is everywhere... 

Our wide players should come in to challenge for the 2nd ball if we have to go long. 

It doesn’t have to.  Bournemouth press and defend in a 4231 shape.  Man City and Real Madrid have often defended in a 442. If you take Joelinton out a side and replace with JP you aren’t getting the same off the ball ability or discipline and need to change tactics accordingly. 

[southernmag]

I don't like this signing. Not convinced he's good enough and he'd cost an arm and a leg. Time to get him if at all was pre-Brighton.

[Checko]

16 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

4-2-3-1 pretty much turns in to 4-5-1 when we are defending. Exactly like 4-3-3. Then again if we play with 2 clear defensive midfielders, that leaves Pedro and Isak quite isolated. Bruno doesn't have the legs to run along quick counters, so that would be left to Tonali. Who already is everywhere... 

Our wide players should come in to challenge for the 2nd ball if we have to go long. 

I'm not advocating changing everything we do. The 4231's just something I think we should add more to the repetoire, particularly in obvious passing situations like goalkicks. It's just a way of getting better control of the ball in our own half and moving up the pitch, which we're not very good at currently.

[The College Dropout]

In short I’m confident Howe can swap Joelinton for JP in a tactical setup that’s less physically exerting for the whole team. JP is also a handy enough deputy for Isak when needed. 
 

If that’s the intention he fills 2 roles and purposes in one. And I like it at £50-60m and £100k.  
 

 

[ianbeany]

8 minutes ago, southernmag said:

I don't like this signing. Not convinced he's good enough and he'd cost an arm and a leg. Time to get him if at all was pre-Brighton.

 

I'm not keen either.

 

Brighton fans seem surprised we are after him.  I've been reading some saying he isn't good enough for a top 5 team

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:38 by ianbeany

[Ben]

10 minutes ago, ianbeany said:

 

I'm not keen either.

 

Brighton fans seem surprised we are after him.  I've been reading some saying he isn't good enough for a top 5 team

 

 

 

 

Aye, see if we can find out who Brighton would replace him with and sign him.

[JUICE690]

Isn't this the guy that was dating a 14 year old when he was 18? :/

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, Ben said:

 

Aye, see if we can find out who Brighton would replace him with and sign him.

Rutter and Gruda are already on their books

[SteV]

5 minutes ago, JUICE690 said:

Isn't this the guy that was dating a 14 year old when he was 18? :/

Without wanting to derail the thread into some kind of nonce-a-thon, he was 18 and she was 15, and the legal age of consent in Brazil is 14.

 

Those are the facts, I’m sure there’s a more appropriate place to discuss the moral aspects.

 

*and I don’t believe he was meeting her in secret behind a Chinese takeaway.

[Terrymac1966]

No pace

[Kid Icarus]

30 minutes ago, JUICE690 said:

Isn't this the guy that was dating a 14 year old when he was 18? :/

You're thinking of Elvis Presley

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:24 by Kid Icarus

[JP]

Why's this gained traction i've only seen a Rob Dorsett tweet and that included touting Isak about as usual so i ignored it

 

[Alberto2005]

1 minute ago, JP said:

Why's this gained traction i've only seen a Rob Dorsett tweet and that included touting Isak about as usual so i ignored it

 

We don't want you anyway mate.

[SteV]

20 minutes ago, JP said:

Why's this gained traction i've only seen a Rob Dorsett tweet and that included touting Isak about as usual so i ignored it

 

That’s basically it, along with the accompanying discussion on the SSN Transfer thing.

 

I wouldn’t say that tweet was touting Isak mind, it said we don’t want to sell, and want another striker regardless.

[SUPERTOON]

18 hours ago, JP said:

Why's this gained traction i've only seen a Rob Dorsett tweet and that included touting Isak about as usual so i ignored it

 

Hope, Edwards, Douglas and Waugh have all said he’s a target, all before Sky said he was. Not that it means much mind.

[WilliamPS]

Aren’t they just revisiting the greatest hits from previous years as they have no real insight? 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Isn’t this just a case of rehashing names from the past that we’ve been linked with? 

[SteV]

40 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Isn’t this just a case of rehashing names from the past that we’ve been linked with? 

Maybe, but there’s sometimes quite a bit of substance behind that.