Other games (2024/25)

[Tiresias]

I do see that, and certainly the big clubs seem unable to spend sensibly, but still think the gap to where Man City are now is pretty huge. Yes they can have an off season but looking at the winners since Leicester's miracle -

 

Chelsea

Man City

Man City

Liverpool

Man City

Man City

 

I don't believe in the top 6 - below a great liverpool team and man city there were rich other clubs but none run especially well and that has shown in domestic leagues. Smart spending by Villa could get into the top 6 but to get close to Man City is waaaay beyond them. I have previously argued Liverpool and Man City were basically the big 2 but wonder if Liverpool was more a great team that was built rather than anything sustained. 

 

We have the resources of course to get there, but will take a while as good as this season has gone, but it shouldn't cost so much, it's silly. the 'Big Six' is a narrative driven by sky who want the league to remain the best to distract from how it isnt actually any more competitative than any other league. We're in a similar situation as La Liga where Barca and Real dominate and occaisionally another challenges but never for too long. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Tiresias

[Froggy]

Big games tonight. All going well we will be 1 point clear of you with a game in hand. 

[KaKa]

36 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Big games tonight. All going well we will be 1 point clear of you with a game in hand. 

 

You just jinxed yourself. 

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, Tiresias said:

I do see that, and certainly the big clubs seem unable to spend sensibly, but still think the gap to where Man City are now is pretty huge. Yes they can have an off season but looking at the winners since Leicester's miracle -

 

Chelsea

Man City

Man City

Liverpool

Man City

Man City

 

I don't believe in the top 6 - below a great liverpool team and man city there were rich other clubs but none run especially well and that has shown in domestic leagues. Smart spending by Villa could get into the top 6 but to get close to Man City is waaaay beyond them. I have previously argued Liverpool and Man City were basically the big 2 but wonder if Liverpool was more a great team that was built rather than anything sustained. 

 

We have the resources of course to get there, but will take a while as good as this season has gone, but it shouldn't cost so much, it's silly. the 'Big Six' is a narrative driven by sky who want the league to remain the best to distract from how it isnt actually any more competitative than any other league. We're in a similar situation as La Liga where Barca and Real dominate and occaisionally another challenges but never for too long. 

 

 

 

 

I think Haaland's performances upfront have been such a big story no one is really talking about how Man City have dropped a level with Zinchenko, Jesus and Sterling leaving.

 

I don't think they look as dangerous as they have previously. If anything they are falling off a bit now too. A lot of their games look a lot more competitive and they are not having as easy a time dominating teams.

 

The £100 million on Grealish was a complete whiff, as he's performing worse for them than he did at Villa. Be interesting to see what they do in the market going forward, with the likes of DeBruyne, Gundogan, Bernardo and Mahrez getting older now. More Grealish and Kalvin Phillips like moves, and it could get really awkward for them, as those two don't look like they are going to work out as well as most anticipated for different reasons.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by KaKa

[Froggy]

17 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

You just jinxed yourself. 

 

Ain't no such thing. But I believe in our ability to lose to Bournemouth.

[JumpersForGoalposts]

2 hours ago, Tiresias said:

I do see that, and certainly the big clubs seem unable to spend sensibly, but still think the gap to where Man City are now is pretty huge. Yes they can have an off season but looking at the winners since Leicester's miracle -

 

Chelsea

Man City

Man City

Liverpool

Man City

Man City

 

I don't believe in the top 6 - below a great liverpool team and man city there were rich other clubs but none run especially well and that has shown in domestic leagues. Smart spending by Villa could get into the top 6 but to get close to Man City is waaaay beyond them. I have previously argued Liverpool and Man City were basically the big 2 but wonder if Liverpool was more a great team that was built rather than anything sustained. 

 

We have the resources of course to get there, but will take a while as good as this season has gone, but it shouldn't cost so much, it's silly. the 'Big Six' is a narrative driven by sky who want the league to remain the best to distract from how it isnt actually any more competitative than any other league. We're in a similar situation as La Liga where Barca and Real dominate and occaisionally another challenges but never for too long. 

 

 

 

Good post. There are two clubs in the PL at the minute who have the resources to sustain success - Man City and us. Man City have had the time to build a dynasty, ours will come over the next decade. No other club comes close. Liverpool and Man United are historically big clubs, but nowhere near as big as they were. Liverpool were also massively overperforming under Klopp, and are now back to the level they should really be. Arsenal and Tottenham have always been imposters at the top table, although Arsenals current PL season is an incredible overperformance and they should be greatly congratulated for that. Leicester showed that it's possible to temporarily fly to the top.

 

I agree with you that there is no 'Big Six' - as you said it's a Sky lie to try and generate interest. Our real rivals over the next decade will be Man City, the rest are just make weights and we absolutely shouldn't fear anyone on the basis that they used to be good.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by JumpersForGoalposts

[LV]

10 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Ain't no such thing. But I believe in our ability to lose to Bournemouth.

Belief is where the magic is.

 

You get what you believe 

[The College Dropout]

B. Silva is still only 28.

 

How many top level managers have signed their squads 1-25?

 

I would assume only Simeone.

 

Pep still has Walker, Stones & KDB. Klopp Milner, Firmino & Henderson.

[PRL]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

B. Silva is still only 28.

 

How many top level managers have signed their squads 1-25?

 

I would assume only Simeone.

 

Pep still has Walker, Stones & KDB. Klopp Milner, Firmino & Henderson.

Think Walker and Stones were signed by Guardiola

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

Big games tonight. All going well we will be 1 point clear of you with a game in hand. 

This will most likely happen, but with Chelsea and Liverpool still stuttering, we have a bigger buffer to other teams than I had anticipated following the World Cup break.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, PRL said:

Think Walker and Stones were signed by Guardiola

Think you're right. Walker was the first of their big money fullbacks.

 

So it's just KDB then.

[jack j]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

Big games tonight. All going well we will be 1 point clear of you with a game in hand. 

Man city then arsenal after the cup break for Man U. Thought they must be due a tough run cos they've been playing dross lately

[Paullow]

24 minutes ago, JumpersForGoalposts said:

Good post. There are two clubs in the PL at the minute who have the resources to sustain success - Man City and us. Man City have had the time to build a dynasty, ours will come over the next decade. No other club comes close. Liverpool and Man United are historically big clubs, but nowhere near as big as they were. Liverpool were also massively overperforming under Klopp, and are now back to the level they should really be. Arsenal and Tottenham have always been imposters at the top table, although Arsenals current PL season is an incredible overperformance and they should be greatly congratulated for that. Leicester showed that it's possible to temporarily fly to the top.

 

I agree with you that there is no 'Big Six' - as you said it's a Sky lie to try and generate interest. Our real rivals over the next decade will be Man City, the rest are just make weights and we absolutely shouldn't fear anyone on the basis that they used to be good.

 

 

 

Think that's a bit harsh on Arsenal. Maybe an age thing, and that they have enjoyed a lot of success in my time, unlike say Everton, but I've always considered Arsenal to just be behind Man Utd and Liverpool, and definitely part of the 3 biggest traditional English clubs.

[The College Dropout]

Arsenal - are at worst - the 3rd most succesful club in England. The idea that they are "imposters at the top table" is such nonsense that I didn't even want to respond.

[Kimbo]

I’m not sure how Man Utd don’t have the resources to sustain success. They can outspend everyone else and still remain profitable.

[KaKa]

I'm telling you guys, more and more clubs are getting good  managers in place and putting together solid scouting and recruitment teams. Just throwing money around isn't going to be enough anymore.

 

I don't know why you lot are so worried about clubs spending money and this guaranteeing they will have sustained success. It's going to take a whole lot more than that going forward.

 

All the money Man Utd have spent in what the last 5 years lets say. Outside of perhaps Bruno Fernandes, who else has really been an outstanding purchase that has worked out for them? If we look at Chelsea, same question, who are their real standouts at the minute? It's probably Reece James and Mason Mount, who came through under Lampard when they were under a transfer embargo and couldn't spend money.

[Tiresias]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

I think Haaland's performances upfront have been such a big story no one is really talking about how Man City have dropped a level with Zinchenko, Jesus and Sterling leaving.

 

I don't think they look as dangerous as they have previously. If anything they are falling off a bit now too. A lot of their games look a lot more competitive and they are not having as easy a time dominating teams.

 

The £100 million on Grealish was a complete whiff, as he's performing worse for them than he did at Villa. Be interesting to see what they do in the market going forward, with the likes of DeBruyne, Gundogan, Bernardo and Mahrez getting older now. More Grealish and Kalvin Phillips like moves, and it could get really awkward for them, as those two don't look like they are going to work out as well as most anticipated for different reasons.

 

 

 

 

Yeah definitely a year of difficult transition, Haaland covering up some issues but still would bet on them to be back to their best next season. They definitely miss Sterling, Grealish is not as good as him he just looks trickier. I also think Foden and other pretty attacking players will suffer a bit from the why would you pass it to them just get it in the box and Haaland will score it. They are a bit inconsistent at the back, seem to concede too many goals and have usually just shrugged and scored a few more but as with Everton will bite them. Think tbh though Pep is just having fun trying out having a ludicrously talented old school centre forward as it's a twist on his usual style he hasn't done yet and he got bored with the false 9 shenanigans. 

[Groundhog63]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

Big games tonight. All going well we will be 1 point clear of you with a game in hand. 

Fuck off

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

[Weezertron]

I saw a video from that Rory guy that supports Chelsea. Proper crying about how poor they've been. 

 

It proper baffles me that people aren't more accepting of change in the Prem. It's fucking great that the gap is closing between poorer sides and the elite. 

 

I'd like to think if Newcastle won a few league titles in a row, I would not moan about another team coming up and spoiling our party. The only decent thing about American sports is the variation of winners. 

 

There should be natural rotation. Surely people like Rory, who has transcended into a pundit, should welcome the competition. Makes for a better sport.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Weezertron

[Tiresias]

9 minutes ago, KaKa said:

I'm telling you guys, more and more clubs are getting good  managers in place and putting together solid scouting and recruitment teams. Just throwing money around isn't going to be enough anymore.

 

I don't know why you lot are so worried about clubs spending money and this guaranteeing they will have sustained success. It's going to take a whole lot more than that going forward.

 

All the money Man Utd have spent in what the last 5 years lets say. Outside of perhaps Bruno Fernandes, who else has really been an outstanding purchase that has worked out for them? If we look at Chelsea, same question, who are their real standouts at the minute? It's probably Reece James and Mason Mount, who came through under Lampard when they were under a transfer embargo and couldn't spend money.

 

There will always be serious competition from well run clubs, why Liverpool were able to compete with Man City for a while before seem to have started getting silly again. There will be the Arsenals of this season, but there will also plenty of clubs spending a lot and failing miserably. I do not buy that clubs are all getting better, Chelsea continue to stumble badly in search of being any good (still have good champions league runs in them mind), Spurs will continue to hire totally inappropriate managers and Kane may well be gone or over the hill fairly soon. 

 

I was always a bit less concerned about ffp than others have been because being well run does give you a lot of head starts over clubs with more money. There is low hanging fruit and players that are bargains. But it's just a big wheel, one season Spurs are overperforming but arsenal are clowns, next season chelsea are challenging. All that remains is Man City will be there or thereabouts and man u will be dogshit and still near the champions league places some how. I don't buy that all these new coaches will all be great, half will, half will get it wrong

[80]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

I'm telling you guys, more and more clubs are getting good  managers in place and putting together solid scouting and recruitment teams. Just throwing money around isn't going to be enough anymore.

 

I don't know why you lot are so worried about clubs spending money and this guaranteeing they will have sustained success. It's going to take a whole lot more than that going forward.

 

All the money Man Utd have spent in what the last 5 years lets say. Outside of perhaps Bruno Fernandes, who else has really been an outstanding purchase that has worked out for them? If we look at Chelsea, same question, who are their real standouts at the minute? It's probably Reece James and Mason Mount, who came through under Lampard when they were under a transfer embargo and couldn't spend money.

I broadly agree. As an historical parallel, think of it like the industrial revolution. British industry was ridiculously far ahead of the ROTW in the 1830s but eventually, everyone else had railways and steel factories too. We had legacy successes which gave us advantages, but there was still plenty of scope for up and comers like Germany to hurt us.

 

The leaders of the pack have to spend a LOT to deliver marginal returns, and it's exhausting.

[80]

4 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

 

There will always be serious competition from well run clubs, why Liverpool were able to compete with Man City for a while before seem to have started getting silly again. There will be the Arsenals of this season, but there will also plenty of clubs spending a lot and failing miserably. I do not buy that clubs are all getting better, Chelsea continue to stumble badly in search of being any good (still have good champions league runs in them mind), Spurs will continue to hire totally inappropriate managers and Kane may well be gone or over the hill fairly soon. 

 

I was always a bit less concerned about ffp than others have been because being well run does give you a lot of head starts over clubs with more money. There is low hanging fruit and players that are bargains. But it's just a big wheel, one season Spurs are overperforming but arsenal are clowns, next season chelsea are challenging. All that remains is Man City will be there or thereabouts and man u will be dogshit and still near the champions league places some how. I don't buy that all these new coaches will all be great, half will, half will get it wrong

I'd say it's about relative advantage. Chelsea and co. are stumbling partly because other teams have closed the gap and it's really hard for a Conte to maintain a supremacy over a Brentford when roughly speaking they all have the same nutritionists and recruitment procedures.

 

Once upon a time, Steve Bruce wasn't arcane, he was typical, so it should've been no surprise when Arsenal Wenger came and blew away his post-match pie and pint players.

[Tiresias]

Just now, 80 said:

I'd say it's about relative advantage. Chelsea and co. are stumbling partly because other teams have closed the gap and it's really hard for a Conte to maintain a supremacy over a Brentford when roughly speaking they all have the same nutritionists and recruitment procedures.

 

Once upon a time, Steve Bruce wasn't arcane, he was typical, so it should've been no surprise when Arsenal Wenger came and blew away his post-match pie and pint players.

 

There is something to that, and definitely clubs like Brentford and Brighton are able to compete better because of smart signings and being more on a level playing field sports science wise, but, and I am going to get flack for suggesting that, Klopp was kinda right there are ceilings for these clubs because they will always lose players to the rich clubs. (Still the fucking gall of Klopp pleading poverty so much, still fucking annoys me, but he's not wrong imo. 

 

I think the quality of the midtable probably is higher than ever. and I can see the odd title upset (which arsenal winning would arguably be, but also more extreme ways like Lecesiter, but, I can't see Man City, or a club similarly funded like us soon, not dominating 4 seasons out of 5 still for the foreseeable. 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

 

There will always be serious competition from well run clubs, why Liverpool were able to compete with Man City for a while before seem to have started getting silly again. There will be the Arsenals of this season, but there will also plenty of clubs spending a lot and failing miserably. I do not buy that clubs are all getting better, Chelsea continue to stumble badly in search of being any good (still have good champions league runs in them mind), Spurs will continue to hire totally inappropriate managers and Kane may well be gone or over the hill fairly soon. 

 

I was always a bit less concerned about ffp than others have been because being well run does give you a lot of head starts over clubs with more money. There is low hanging fruit and players that are bargains. But it's just a big wheel, one season Spurs are overperforming but arsenal are clowns, next season chelsea are challenging. All that remains is Man City will be there or thereabouts and man u will be dogshit and still near the champions league places some how. I don't buy that all these new coaches will all be great, half will, half will get it wrong

 

I just think more clubs in the prem are now able to pay for decent coaches and can also now afford and attract a much better calibre of player.

 

As I mentioned previousy, both ourselves and Villa all of a sudden have found ourselves with two top managers and there are the resources to get in some very good players. I think we are both in a very strong position to cause problems if clubs at the top slip up even a bit. West Ham brought in some really talented players in the summer, and already had some in place at the club. They should be right there as well, but Moyes just isn't right for the type of players they have gone and brought in. If they go and hire someone more adept at getting the best out of the likes of Paqueta and Scammacca along with the likes of Rice, Bowen etc. I could see a big improvement there going forward. Lets say they hired Pochettino for example.

 

There's also just going to be a lot more competitive games week to week for clubs competing at the top. There's hardly anymore games that are a complete walk in the park.  When you then see the likes of Wolves signing someone like Matheus Nunes who a lot of top clubs were monitoring, there's possibilities there if they get the right manager in. Fulham signing Paulinha in the summer was absolutely ridiculous too, and their manager seems to have found his feet, after struggling a bit at Everton, he's clearly a talented manager. A few good seasons and with more money to spend and Fulham could start progressing as a club too. If you don't have your stuff together I think it's just going to be much harder to coast to titles. There's going to be more challenging games in general, and more clubs able to put pressure on if you fall off.

[80]

3 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

 

There is something to that, and definitely clubs like Brentford and Brighton are able to compete better because of smart signings and being more on a level playing field sports science wise, but, and I am going to get flack for suggesting that, Klopp was kinda right there are ceilings for these clubs because they will always lose players to the rich clubs. (Still the fucking gall of Klopp pleading poverty so much, still fucking annoys me, but he's not wrong imo. 

 

I think the quality of the midtable probably is higher than ever. and I can see the odd title upset (which arsenal winning would arguably be, but also more extreme ways like Lecesiter, but, I can't see Man City, or a club similarly funded like us soon, not dominating 4 seasons out of 5 still for the foreseeable. 

I agree with that for sure. I think it's basically a case of the pyramid being a lot less steep than it was a few years ago. But it's certainly still a pyramid.

 

And yes, because one or two clubs have nearly unlimited resources, it'll possibly become easier for them because they'll be the only ones with guaranteed at any cost access to so-called unicorns - the kind of players like Haaland and de Bruyne that just put in relentless, error free, state of the art performances 49 out of 50 games a season. Those players being necessitated because MOST PL competitors are error free 45 games out of 50, rather than maybe a 35:50 ratio 10 years ago or a 25:50 ratio a quarter of a century ago.

 

Of course, this may not actually be fun to watch... There's a reason professional wrestling consistently chose to invent fallible performers and referees.