Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability - New APT Rules Approved by Premier League

[Unbelievable]

3 hours ago, Paully said:

 

Absolutely brilliant response from the City fan

[Stifler]

100% right, the Liverpool myth particularly pissed me off.

They got the money off the back of legalising gambling (outside of horse and dog tracks) in the UK and were a club who could easily have slipped down the leagues. They spent more than anyone and bought every decent player around to change it around.

Their fans go on as if they are pure and without sin.

Their bankroller has arguably done the most damage to society in the 20th-21st centuries than anyone outside of government, and Rupert Murdoch.

[TRon]

On 12/09/2024 at 23:02, The Prophet said:

Between this and the Chelsea Hotel sales, I'm surprised a few clubs haven't kicked off.

 

Most aren't in any position to challenge the dominance of the cartel anyway, for them it's probably a non-issue.

[madras]

2 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

Absolutely brilliant response from the City fan

No its not. The rules changed rightly or wrongly and they seem to have broke them repeatedly and knowingly and often. Fuck them if they are found guilty And let's see when it all comes out which rules were put in specifically to stop them.

 

 

Edited September 14 by madras

[Unbelievable]

16 hours ago, madras said:

No its not. The rules changed rightly or wrongly and they seem to have broke them repeatedly and knowingly and often. Fuck them if they are found guilty And let's see when it all comes out which rules were put in specifically to stop them.

 

 

 

Whether Man City should be punished for breaking rules or deserve to have their success diminished and belittled by fans of other clubs are two different things. That fan expressed quite succinctly that other clubs at various critical stages of their history also outspend their competition to get to the top, something they’ve made damn sure can’t be done anymore as soon as owners richer than them entered the English game. As for how City went about becoming the four time PL winners they are, they’ve clearly been managed much better than some of the other clubs with similar revenue and spend, and for that they absolutely deserve credit.

[madras]

1 hour ago, Unbelievable said:

Whether Man City should be punished for breaking rules or deserve to have their success diminished and belittled by fans of other clubs are two different things. That fan expressed quite succinctly that other clubs at various critical stages of their history also outspend their competition to get to the top, something they’ve made damn sure can’t be done anymore as soon as owners richer than them entered the English game. As for how City went about becoming the four time PL winners they are, they’ve clearly been managed much better than some of the other clubs with similar revenue and spend, and for that they absolutely deserve credit.

Again I disagree. Yes some clubs have spent more than others but within the rules, if they were found to break those rules, like Sunderland in the 50s, they get the punishment and Sunderland never really recovered. Yes they deserve credit for utilising their revenue better than others but they don't deserve to have their trophies if they only got that revenue by deliberately cheating and going beyond "gaming the system', "expoiting loopholes" etc but by, what seems to be naked all out ignoring and breaking the rules.

 

 

Edited September 15 by madras

[Unbelievable]

1 hour ago, madras said:

Again I disagree. Yes some clubs have spent more than others but within the rules, if they were found to break those rules, like Sunderland in the 50s, they get the punishment and Sunderland never really recovered. Yes they deserve credit for utilising their revenue better than others but they don't deserve to have their trophies if they only got that revenue by deliberately cheating and going beyond "gaming the system', "expoiting loopholes" etc but by, what seems to be naked all out ignoring and breaking the rules.

 

 

 

 

I take it from this that you are in favour of these rules allowing and specifically brought in to allow some clubs to spend more than others? If so, I don't quite know what to say really.

 

Should Man City be punished for breaking FFP rules? Yes

Should Man City be derided for winning trophies by spending similar amounts to other clubs? No

Should these rules be scrapped for being anti-competitive? Absolutely

Should Newcastle United owners break the rules as long as they are not scrapped? Up to them, but I'm happy to accept they are not willing to and build the club within the current regulations whilst hopefully at the same time challenging the rules as they are internally

 

Just checked btw, Man City is 11th in transfer spend over the last five years, having spent less than a third of what NUFC spent, and less than a sixth of Chelsea, less than a fifth of Man U and about a quarter of what Arsenal and Spurs spent (source). They absolutely deserve a lot of credit for how they are run and should be a good model for us to follow, albeit without the initial investment (to the same extent).

[Geogaddi]

I really hope Man City get away with it , the outrage from the cartel clubs will be glorious.

[duo]

6 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I really hope Man City get away with it , the outrage from the cartel clubs will be glorious.

I don't - they've ruined the league

[FloydianMag]

2 minutes ago, duo said:

I don't - they've ruined the league

As LFC did in the 70’s and 80’s and as Man U did in the PL era up until Fergie pissed off. If being successful is ruining the league then challengers need to be more competitive.

[Heron]

5 minutes ago, duo said:

I don't - they've ruined the league

All the cartel clubs have...

[Geogaddi]

10 minutes ago, duo said:

I don't - they've ruined the league

They really haven't, they win the league every year due to Pep , before he came in they were nowhere near as dominant and won't be once he leaves . Would happily see Man City win the league every year over one of the cartel clubs .

[RobsonsWonderland]

17 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

 

I take it from this that you are in favour of these rules allowing and specifically brought in to allow some clubs to spend more than others? If so, I don't quite know what to say really.

 

Should Man City be punished for breaking FFP rules? Yes

Should Man City be derided for winning trophies by spending similar amounts to other clubs? No

Should these rules be scrapped for being anti-competitive? Absolutely

Should Newcastle United owners break the rules as long as they are not scrapped? Up to them, but I'm happy to accept they are not willing to and build the club within the current regulations whilst hopefully at the same time challenging the rules as they are internally

 

Just checked btw, Man City is 11th in transfer spend over the last five years, having spent less than a third of what NUFC spent, and less than a sixth of Chelsea, less than a fifth of Man U and about a quarter of what Arsenal and Spurs spent (source). They absolutely deserve a lot of credit for how they are run and should be a good model for us to follow, albeit without the initial investment (to the same extent).

How many of the top players were signed before the last five year period?

 

It's quite easy to spend less when you assembled a fantastic squad that just needs tinkering around the edges or you have a Foden coming through.

 

 

 

[Thumbheed]

27 minutes ago, duo said:

I don't - they've ruined the league

 

Said it before, but if they win the case and open the floodgates to PSR then it'll fuck football. 

 

Can't bitch about cartels then willfully hope for a result that will essentially shift the balance favourably to 3 state owned clubs.  

 

 

Edited September 15 by Thumbheed

[Zero]

I would say the fucking FFP/PSR ruin the league more than Man City

 

And also everyone have to agree that Man City in return provided a lot of talents to England national team and other lower clubs as well, by investing heavily in youth training.

 

They have done more good and bad to football as a whole.

[duo]

22 minutes ago, FloydianMag said:

As LFC did in the 70’s and 80’s and as Man U did in the PL era up until Fergie pissed off. If being successful is ruining the league then challengers need to be more competitive.

Liverpool / Man U dominated within the rules at the time.  Man City potentially flaunted the PSR rules enabling them to amass a squad where no one has been able to touch them / winning leagues / CLs / allowing them to generate ludicrous amounts of cash / giving them ridiculous spending power.  I am not saying I agree with the PSR rules - I don't - but Man City have distorted the league and will continue to do so.

 

 

Edited September 15 by duo

[duo]

17 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

They really haven't, they win the league every year due to Pep , before he came in they were nowhere near as dominant and won't be once he leaves . Would happily see Man City win the league every year over one of the cartel clubs .

The foundations were already in place when Pep came in - he was just the cherry on the top.  Pep is a tactical genius but he still needs the players to execute his plan.

[Thumbheed]

Think people are seeing the pot of gold that Man City are fighting for which would benefit us and  forgetting/ignoring the fact that they have essentially cheated their way to success in quite a cynical way.

[Unbelievable]

6 minutes ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

How many of the top players were signed before the last five year period?

 

It's quite easy to spend less when you assembled a fantastic squad that just needs tinkering around the edges or you have a Foden coming through.

 

 

 

Well, that's the point that City fan made as well, and the problem we are facing isn't it? Liverpool, Man U and more recently Chelsea and City all got to become where they are ("top six" members) by at one stage outspending the competition to gain a position where their reputation, academy, etc. meant they could compete and hover up the biggest sponsorships without investing as big. They then pulled up the draw bridge when Arab owners with more wealth than themselves took an interest and they feared they might lose their cosy position at the top that they thought nobody could challenge.

[80]

9 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

Said it before, but if they win the case and open the floodgates to PSR then it'll fuck football. 

 

Can't bitch about cartels then willfully hope for a result that will essentially shift the balance favourably to 3 state owned clubs.  

 

 

 

Oh no, I hope football doesn't lose its virginity. It's so innocent and pure and well-functioning right now.

 

A league where only 4 members of a 92 team competition can hope to win 'respectably' is already through the looking glass.

[Thumbheed]

10 minutes ago, 80 said:

Oh no, I hope football doesn't lose its virginity. It's so innocent and pure and well-functioning right now.

 

A league where only 4 members of a 92 team competition can hope to win 'respectably' is already through the looking glass.

 

I know right? Imagine wanting fair rules that encourage competition and not ones that accelerate the lack of. 

[ExiledGeordie]

I agree with that city fan regarding clubs previously spending money to gain success and that the cartel is changing rules to directly affect them and us. But let’s be honest if a club is putting people on secret contacts such as they did with Mancini with a second salary from a club in Abu Dhabi without declaring it then you need to be held accountable. And that only just scratches the surface of what they’ve been doing.

[Unbelievable]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Think people are seeing the pot of gold that Man City are fighting for which would benefit us and  forgetting/ignoring the fact that they have essentially cheated their way to success in quite a cynical way.

No, the point that City fan made was about whether City deserves to always have their success caveated by the asterisk that they did it spening a lot of money. They are brilliantly managed and deserve praise for that. You know full well that if we ever get to be in their position fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and Man United will not stop pointing out how it is due to the vast wealth of our owners (and therefore unfair), completely ignoring that a) this is exactly how they rose to the top in years gone by, b) we (so far) have not outspend any of them and neither have City over recent years and c) none of their clubs would still be considered "top six" if they had suffered Mike Ashley-esque ownership for a decade and a half, taking us from a regular CL qualifier to a yoyo club which revenue stagnated whilst theirs tripled or quadrupled.

[Unbelievable]

1 minute ago, ExiledGeordie said:

I agree with that city fan regarding clubs previously spending money to gain success and that the cartel is changing rules to directly affect them and us. But let’s be honest if a club is putting people on secret contacts such as they did with Mancini with a second salary from a club in Abu Dhabi without declaring it then you need to be held accountable. And that only just scratches the surface of what they’ve been doing.

His point correctly being that if these anti-competitive rules weren't put in place, City wouldn't have had to resort to such practices in order to catch up with clubs who built themselves up similarly by vastly outspending their peers.

 

As I said, City deserve to be punished for breaking the rules (if indeed it turns out they have), but these rules should not be in place and regardless of how City got there, they are still much better managed with similar means nowadays than the likes of Man United and Chelsea. Fans of those clubs really shouldn't be complaining and take a long hard look at the owners of their own clubs messing up so laughably.

[80]

1 minute ago, Thumbheed said:

 

I know right? Imagine wanting fair rules that encourage competition and not ones that accelerate the lack of. 

I don't think such things meaningfully exist. Outside of becoming more American/Socialist and letting Luton and Sheffield United draft Rodri and Haaland to have another crack this season.