Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Ronson333]

15 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Apologising in advance for use of Daily Heil:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12885459/amp/Aston-Villa-Premier-League-stadium-plan-hold.html

This doesn’t make sense, so they will only expand the stadium when they are playing badly? 

[astraguy]

 

 

[Nucasol]

8 minutes ago, astraguy said:

 

 

The Premier League is just bent now.

 

Spurs, Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool lobbying for FFP to safeguard their positions.

 

City circumventing it, Chelsea making a mockery of it.

[leffe186]

2 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

The Premier League is just bent now...

It’s just bent now? Oh you sweet summer child.

[Nucasol]

7 minutes ago, leffe186 said:

It’s just bent now? Oh you sweet summer child.

Bent-er. To the point it feels like it’s going to fracture.

[Fezzle]

12 hours ago, huss9 said:

"Manchester City are in pole position to land Brazil’s new teen sensation - Savio.

The Under-20 international winger is currently on loan at shock La Liga leaders Girona from French top-flight strugglers Troyes. And that immediately gives City a major edge in the likely summer battle to secure Savio’s services.

Both Girona and Troyes are owned by the English club’s City Football Group – meaning they could snatch him for as little as £10million in July. That is a third of the price any of Europe’s top clubs chasing in Savio, 19, will have to pay."

 

the whole systems fucked.

Simple solution, we bid £50m for him and establish fair market value. Force the PL to make city pay it for him. Oh wait yeah they aren't playing with the same rules as us scum

[astraguy]

Everton n forest will get done and man city/Chelsea will walk away Scott free

[TomYam]

10 minutes ago, astraguy said:

Everton n forest will get done and man city/Chelsea will walk away Scott free

Kevin Scott? Would have been a decent free signing although his value would surely be closer to that than £850,000 - as I'm sure Leffe would agree.

[leffe186]

 You couldn’t pay us.

[TomYam]

1 hour ago, Ronson333 said:

This doesn’t make sense, so they will only expand the stadium when they are playing badly? 

?  I think they mean they're now considering setting their sights higher than a 10,000 expansion of Villa Park.

[r0cafella]

1 hour ago, leffe186 said:

Cheers.

 

Yeah that’s peculiar. He doesn’t say “we don’t have the money” (unsurprisingly) but instead he doesn’t think they should tear down the one stand intended for expansion “while we’re playing like this…I think everything should be about all fans and not just one particular stand”.

 

I’d have to look into the fan discussion but on the face of it that suggests that rather than not having the money for redevelopment of Villa Park, they might actually be looking to build a new ground. Unless @Stifler you have something that says they don’t have the money?

 

My understanding is that a few clubs around Europe are looking at the Tottenham Stadium and thinking that a multi-purpose stadium is the way forward. Maybe Villa are thinking the same.

Your stadium absolutely is the way forward. 

[TomYam]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Your stadium absolutely is the way forward. 

Yes, but the 64,000 dollar (and potential stadium capacity) question is 'would the majority of our fans be prepared to move into a new stadium elsewhere in the city centre?'

[leffe186]

Just now, TomYam said:

Yes, but the 64,000 dollar (and potential stadium capacity) question is 'would the majority of our fans be prepared to move into a new stadium elsewhere in the city centre?'

That’s the rub. We talked about it for years. You guys have done the same once it became clear that you were restricted on one side.

[Erikse]

12 hours ago, huss9 said:

"Manchester City are in pole position to land Brazil’s new teen sensation - Savio.

The Under-20 international winger is currently on loan at shock La Liga leaders Girona from French top-flight strugglers Troyes. And that immediately gives City a major edge in the likely summer battle to secure Savio’s services.

Both Girona and Troyes are owned by the English club’s City Football Group – meaning they could snatch him for as little as £10million in July. That is a third of the price any of Europe’s top clubs chasing in Savio, 19, will have to pay."

 

the whole systems fucked.

 

Liverpool was making a complaint about us selling ASM for €27m.

 

 

Edited January 21 by Erikse

[r0cafella]

10 minutes ago, TomYam said:

Yes, but the 64,000 dollar (and potential stadium capacity) question is 'would the majority of our fans be prepared to move into a new stadium elsewhere in the city centre?'

That’s the issue right, some of our fans won’t considering moving which is of course up to them. 
 

Or we do what spurs did and rebuild on the current site but that or course presents its own challenges. No matter what we do we will have a lot of unhappy folk. 

[Teslact]

Spurs played for two years at Wembley. The only comparable stadium within distance isn't going to work for us. PIF could maybe build a temporary flat pack on the arena site and rent it to us for the 2-3M per season that West Ham pay and so has set FMV.

[FloydianMag]

5 minutes ago, Teslact said:

Spurs played for two years at Wembley. The only comparable stadium within distance isn't going to work for us. PIF could maybe build a temporary flat pack on the arena site and rent it to us for the 2-3M per season that West Ham pay and so has set FMV.

Of course if they build a new stadium at either the Arena site or Castle Leazes we continue to play at SJP.

[nufcnick]

4 hours ago, TomYam said:

Yes, but the 64,000 dollar (and potential stadium capacity) question is 'would the majority of our fans be prepared to move into a new stadium elsewhere in the city centre?'

Wont have a choice in the matter, if we move, we move. Really think people are gonna choose not to go because we may move stadium.

[Wolfcastle]

5 hours ago, TomYam said:

Kevin Scott? Would have been a decent free signing although his value would surely be closer to that than £850,000 - as I'm sure Leffe would agree.

Did us a solid with Ruel Fox too. £4.5m wasn't it?  Sellars, Neilson, Venison and Mathie and that paid for Ginola, Ferdinand, Barton and Shaka.

KK nailing ffp before ffp was a thing.

[TheBrownBottle]

43 minutes ago, Wolfcastle said:

Did us a solid with Ruel Fox too. £4.5m wasn't it?  Sellars, Neilson, Venison and Mathie and that paid for Ginola, Ferdinand, Barton and Shaka.

KK nailing ffp before ffp was a thing.

Add in the Cole money from January which wasn’t spent until the summer

[Erikse]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-manchester-united-boost-28485683

 

Quote

However, unless United's new regime has risked the embarrassment of having their first CEO of their tenure resign or be sacked as part of his role in one of the biggest-ever football scandals, then their appointment of Berrada must be seen as tacit acceptance that City have played by the books - as they have always insisted they have. Unless you are planning to cheat, why would you appoint someone who you think might have been responsible for cheating?

 

Trying really hard to defend City with this one.

 

 

Edited January 21 by Erikse

[BShearer]

I am very much on the opinion City will not punished. As the kind of things they are charged with are brutally hard to prove and also falls under serious crime which should be investigated by police, HMRC and other serious organizations instead of the kangaroo court of PL. this is a last ditch effort from PL to try to catch City heavily lobbied by the redtops/Spurs who also heavily leaned on Masters to block our takeover recently. there are also serious blowback if they are found guilty and get relegation, everyone could sue them same as with Everton can be sued by relegated clubs. its gonna be a legal catastrophe.

(also very much doubt it would take this long if PL had clear proof or wrongdoings.)

they are aware City built a machine last 10 years which is hard to catch up which now also delivers world record revenues meaning in the world of FFP where spend vs revenue is the king of course clubs with highest revenue will dictate the results as long as the football side of the things are run by experts (unlike Man United) which is the case at City. no wonder their staff gets poached, Arteta to Arsenal, Berrada to MU CEO etc. their 3rd assistant manager from last season now ripping apart the Champo with Leicester.

 

drawbridge seems to be up now with PL FFP, exactly to avoid another City happening we are finding out how hard it is to invest under these rules and how much it favors going forward the clubs with already enormous revenues.

 

redtops also heavily influenced football media to spout shit and kind of accept that investment in football is evil. unless its them investing into the squad which is God given right for them. unless its them accepting overinflated transfer fees for Saudi league for past it players like Henderson, Fabinho etc.

United spending shit load on van de Beek, Martial, Anthony, Onana, Mount, Sancho worth around 350m and them having total of 10 games combined where they really played well for their team is all OK.

but if Bournemouth would do this thats a crime against football. WTF?

even more so if they would actually be more successful on the back of it taking away CL places from the redtops. that cannot be allowed surely. let them grown organically, let top6 clubs steal their best players, offer them higher salaries before they can become a force.

 

[TheBrownBottle]

5 hours ago, BShearer said:

I am very much on the opinion City will not punished. As the kind of things they are charged with are brutally hard to prove and also falls under serious crime which should be investigated by police, HMRC and other serious organizations instead of the kangaroo court of PL. this is a last ditch effort from PL to try to catch City heavily lobbied by the redtops/Spurs who also heavily leaned on Masters to block our takeover recently. there are also serious blowback if they are found guilty and get relegation, everyone could sue them same as with Everton can be sued by relegated clubs. its gonna be a legal catastrophe.

(also very much doubt it would take this long if PL had clear proof or wrongdoings.)

they are aware City built a machine last 10 years which is hard to catch up which now also delivers world record revenues meaning in the world of FFP where spend vs revenue is the king of course clubs with highest revenue will dictate the results as long as the football side of the things are run by experts (unlike Man United) which is the case at City. no wonder their staff gets poached, Arteta to Arsenal, Berrada to MU CEO etc. their 3rd assistant manager from last season now ripping apart the Champo with Leicester.

 

drawbridge seems to be up now with PL FFP, exactly to avoid another City happening we are finding out how hard it is to invest under these rules and how much it favors going forward the clubs with already enormous revenues.

 

redtops also heavily influenced football media to spout shit and kind of accept that investment in football is evil. unless its them investing into the squad which is God given right for them. unless its them accepting overinflated transfer fees for Saudi league for past it players like Henderson, Fabinho etc.

United spending shit load on van de Beek, Martial, Anthony, Onana, Mount, Sancho worth around 350m and them having total of 10 games combined where they really played well for their team is all OK.

but if Bournemouth would do this thats a crime against football. WTF?

even more so if they would actually be more successful on the back of it taking away CL places from the redtops. that cannot be allowed surely. let them grown organically, let top6 clubs steal their best players, offer them higher salaries before they can become a force.

 

The problem with state ownership is that when something like this occurs (and if anyone isn’t aware, Man City hasn’t simply been accused over going over FFP - this is far more serious and involves fraud), then a small private body in one country is, in effect, able to convict another govt of deceptive practice.  It’s a diplomatic issue.

 

Which is why the UK govt would be likely to intercede on Man City’s behalf.  

[Cronky]

Nobody can be particularly sure of how the City enquiry is going to turn out. We're in uncharted territory.

 

I don't have much doubt that the tribunal will find them guilty. City signed up to a certain set of rules in taking their part in the Premier League, and the evidence seems clear that they broke the rules of that particular organisation.

 

Where things might get tricky is when City try to invoke the law of the land in various ways, as I think they will. I can see them attacking the process as unfair, and the Premiership rules as being contrary to other rights in law. I think it'll depend on the enforceability of the rules, in which case the whole edifice of FFP will be at stake.

 

I'm not sure on this, but the balance of proof that the tribunal will apply in judging City as a club might well be different from the balance of proof required for a conviction for fraud on the part of an individual to succeed in a law court?

[FloydianMag]

19 minutes ago, Cronky said:

Nobody can be particularly sure of how the City enquiry is going to turn out. We're in uncharted territory.

 

I don't have much doubt that the tribunal will find them guilty. City signed up to a certain set of rules in taking their part in the Premier League, and the evidence seems clear that they broke the rules of that particular organisation.

 

Where things might get tricky is when City try to invoke the law of the land in various ways, as I think they will. I can see them attacking the process as unfair, and the Premiership rules as being contrary to other rights in law. I think it'll depend on the enforceability of the rules, in which case the whole edifice of FFP will be at stake.

 

I'm not sure on this, but the balance of proof that the tribunal will apply in judging City as a club might well be different from the balance of proof required for a conviction for fraud on the part of an individual to succeed in a law court?

They haven’t been charged with a criminal fraud where the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, I would think that a tribunal would be ‘on the balance of probability’ however the charges are incredibly complex and even if they were found guilty there would be an appeal. It could eventually end up in the law courts and City could use the nuclear option, challenge the legality of FFP. Then what?‍♂️

 

 

Edited January 22 by FloydianMag