Match Atmosphere

[AJ9]

Good thread and agree with the points made in the original post. While I kind of joked about the atmosphere argument in the Carabao cup thread, it is a genuine issue within our fanbase and has been for long before even the Ashley years IMO.

 

For reference, we had a season ticket in the family from about 2002 - 2009. It was mine for the first few years as a 15/16 year old, and I sat right in the middle of the Gallowgate, upper tier. A typical atmosphere back then was, in my opinion, still pretty shite. We had a big roar at the start of the game, groans going at every mistake, a bit more noise when we got a corner/free kick or something controversial happened, and occasions where the place took off.

 

I had been waiting for years to get in and had been managing to get home tickets and away tickets as I was one of The Mag sellers and I sold pretty well round the pubs and the ground, so got taken to games where I was used to the atmosphere being rowdy.

 

However, my experience of those around me in the Gallowgate was this -

- Old man behind that used to shout at me every 2 second to sit down (at corners, during chants etc. - sure I shared a story of having a pie lobbed at me by the awld cahnt).

- Middle aged bloke who used to come in 20 mins late pissed as fuck, down 10 mins before half time for another pint, barely making it up the steps.

- Radge old guy next to me that did sing when on top but was irate every time a mistake was made

- Two middle aged women in front who spent the whole game smoking fags

- Some lass occasionally that was sat knitting

 

So there were loads of times when as a lad then I was left hanging with chants and eventually I decided to not give a fuck, but most people would just stop. So we absolutely have to find a place for the rowdy fans to get together BUT we must also try to be as inclusive as possible so people don't just leave it up to the standing area to take on. I've been to Ibrox and seen the Union Bears sing all game, but quite often you only hear them, even went to see them play away at Ross County before christmas and the away end was quiet except the Union Bears - I think for that reason.

 

While I do think part of the answer is moving people around there are some other things that might help too.

 

1. If somehow there was a group of people up for revising old songs, thinking up new chants, sharing clips on social media, getting a buzz at away games, trying to get the fans up for challenges (see how long we can keep something going etc.) - connecting to our history and heritage. Or new mass participation chants that are simple to emulate (kind of like the thunderclap but not that because it has been done)

2. If somehow the flag displays that start before kick off could somehow be used during the match. We saw how class it was at Wembley when the flags went up in the 80th minute or so. Imagine that was more of a regular thing with the scarves - it would be class.

 

Just some thoughts!

[Yorkie]

55 minutes ago, AJ9 said:

2. If somehow the flag displays that start before kick off could somehow be used during the match. We saw how class it was at Wembley when the flags went up in the 80th minute or so. Imagine that was more of a regular thing with the scarves - it would be class.

 

That's a really good idea. Like everyone knows that in the 70th minute, for eg, the scarves/flags get going again, whatever the context in the match. It's just something that happens every game. Give the players a lift but more importantly the fans too.

[Kid Icarus]

It might be a bit of a logistical nightmare to implement quickly, but a seat swap system (similar to what the council does with houses) would be class if done correctly imo. 

 

Imo the biggest factor holding back the noise is people not feeling confident enough to sing (something that's a lot easier to get over when you're with your mates) paired with people largely being in and amongst absolute miseries who seem to think standing, shouting and singing at a football match is weird. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Wallsendmag]

4 hours ago, Kanji said:

This is quite an interesting read, this thread. Fwiw at Wembley the Man United fans around me in the mixed zone basically said their fans were shite in comparison to our support. One had a grandad (who passed away) who was a Geordie and he was a bit in tears watching our flags and support. 

 

Visually we were fantastic, nobody can argue otherwise, but vocally it was terrible. I shared the story about the young lass kicking off at HT because nobody would sing and she had a point. We were in block 136 which was in the lower level just to the left of the goal as you looked at the pitch. I'd heard 133-136 were where most the usual away travellers were going (obviously they were in group 1 so could pick their seats) which is why we went there but it really was awful. 

 

Most my mates ended up in Level 5 and their experience was the same as mine. Just small pockets of people singing, which is never any good in a stadium that size, but with the added bonus of loads of people arguing about sitting down/standing up. At least everyone in the lower level stood for 90 mins so we didn't have all that hassle cos that would have been the icing on the cake for me!

[Superior Acuña]

As I've said in the other thread I think the experience at Wembley must have been spatially quite variable. i.e. I believe people who both said it was shit and good. I thought it was decent enough. I've been to plenty of class away atmospheres and it wasn't like that, but never expected that. From where I was we definitely seemed louder than ManU fans.

 

Anyway, agree with the overall point of needing to improve. Getting people together definitely needs to happen. Like many I love a good sing but I don't have the bottle to get it going myself, especially when surrounded by people sitting quiet. 

[Choppy Chop Chop]

Smashing thread, my tuppenny worth. Get a geet big drum going. Keeps the singing at the same pace. I know this will be howled down 

 

As a 10 year old I remember it all being quiet and the simple chant NEW CASS SELL started and it went all around the ground, even the old stand where the directors sat afterwards the whole atmosphere in the ground changed and I was hooked for life 

[NUFC91]

I think Wembley aside lets focus on St James Park as if you get lads back together in St James it will pass into neutral grounds.

 

If we don't act now we'll get left behind..lets not make any excuses we simply are not getting behind the team. The only way to fix this is RELOCATING fans. We clearly have a lot of fans who think the same.

 

@Heron was it Wor Flags or Trust who got Darren Eales to the Green man? Who ever has contact with him I would be getting him involved, i think he'd love to help.

 

If you havent already plese email [email protected] and also bring it up at next trust meeting.

 

[Big River]

aye I think Eales will be key in this endeavour. he's clearly engaged and values the fans opinions

[bealios]

I think home atmospheres at most PL grounds are lacking, and also think we have a tendency to look back through rose tinted specs, and just remember the good parts from the old days. I’ve been going since 88/89, and I can remember some cracking atmosphere games, but couldn’t definitely say they were better than some games last year (Arsenal etc.). Also remember being some pretty low key atmospheres, even in the Keegan years. 
 

Personally think the most realistic way to improve this is with small steps, and you don’t need to be as drastic as forcing people to move. Safe standing areas would be self selective - anyone wanting to move to a standing area is probably more likely to sing. Just start by converting small parts of ground on lower tier to safe standing. If anyone wants to move away, just have them register interest to move away from the standing areas, priority given to OAP/medical need. Have a separate register for those who want to move to safe standing. And then just swap tickets over time. 
 

If it works for first few blocks, convert more. Not sure if there is a legal limit, but if you could eventually manage 10k safe standing areas spread around the ground, you’d improve atmosphere - and it would spread. 

[christ]

Could we add a poll to the OP? Existing ST holders who’d be interested in a singing section, members who’d be interested etc? Be good to get some idea of what the figures look like just on here.

[TwoForJoy]

Making stadiums all seater was the game changer for atmosphere's in England.

 

When I started going regularly in 1980, St James was split into three groups. 15 - 35's behind the goals, middle aged blokes in the paddocks and pensioners and the well off in the seats. You didn't see lasses, pensioners or little kids in the Gallowgate in those days. It was rowdy and lawless and people could get away with stuff in there they couldn't elsewhere. You'd get pushed, shoved and pissed on and any coppers that ventured in, walked out with their coats covered in spit. There was rivalry between the Scoreboard and The Corner who used to egg eachother on to sing and they both used to egg on the East Stand where the Red Indian warbler was. The most you got from the West stand was them stamping their feet on the wooden floor if we got a corner, which did make a decent noise.

 

Having like-minded people in designated area's is definitely the way forward and the singing sections definitely need priority in the lower bowl, there's no point in putting them in Level 7.

[Wandy]

33 minutes ago, christ said:

Could we add a poll to the OP? Existing ST holders who’d be interested in a singing section, members who’d be interested etc? Be good to get some idea of what the figures look like just on here.

 

I've added a poll with some questions. Let me know if there is anything I should add.

[Big River]

24 minutes ago, TwoForJoy said:

Making stadiums all seater was the game changer for atmosphere's in England.

 

When I started going regularly in 1980, St James was split into three groups. 15 - 35's behind the goals, middle aged blokes in the paddocks and pensioners and the well off in the seats. You didn't see lasses, pensioners or little kids in the Gallowgate in those days. It was rowdy and lawless and people could get away with stuff in there they couldn't elsewhere. You'd get pushed, shoved and pissed on and any coppers that ventured in, walked out with their coats covered in spit. There was rivalry between the Scoreboard and The Corner who used to egg eachother on to sing and they both used to egg on the East Stand where the Red Indian warbler was. The most you got from the West stand was them stamping their feet on the wooden floor if we got a corner, which did make a decent noise.

 

Having like-minded people in designated area's is definitely the way forward and the singing sections definitely need priority in the lower bowl, there's no point in putting them in Level 7.

 

was thinking about this earlier, actually. whether or not two smaller safe standing/singing sections would work. strawberry corner & leazes east. get some competition going!

 

the east stand can just turn their hearing aids off if it gets too loud

[Whitley mag]

Before the infamous bond scheme the Milburn Leazes wing used to always get the whole crowd going and start chants.

 

For me this is an example of how just one part of the ground can get the whole place going. Now I wouldn’t say the level 7 curva nord had the same effect, but they created canny noise in their own right.

 

For the best impact any singing area probably needs to be in the lower bowl. The only exception to this for me would be if they made the level 7 corner all standing and the level 4 corner below all standing aswell.

 

You then condense the fucking family enclosure with whoever’s got tickets in there and you have this large corner of the ground right next to the away fans all standing and singing hopefully.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Whitley mag

[UncleBingo]

1 hour ago, Whitley mag said:

Before the infamous bond scheme the Milburn Leazes wing used to always get the whole crowd going and start chants.

 

For me this is an example of how just one part of the ground can get the whole place going. Now I wouldn’t say the level 7 curva nord had the same effect, but they created canny noise in their own right.

 

For the best impact any singing area probably needs to be in the lower bowl. The only exception to this for me would be if they made the level 7 corner all standing and the level 4 corner below all standing aswell.

 

You then condense the fucking family enclosure with whoever’s got tickets in there and you have this large corner of the ground right next to the away fans all standing and singing hopefully.

 

 

 

I used to sit there, right next to the away fans and it was crackers up there for a few seasons. Got moved into the Paddock below despite having a bond, buy it was never the same.

 

My two penneth is that a lot of the people who stopped going because of Ashley, were some of our hard-core lot from the 70s and 80s. A lot of the younger 'footie lads' who've replaced them aren't really football fans in my opinion, let alone fans of the club. For them, it's an extension to their weekend. These people would much rather check their bets or spend the match saying 'he's shit' than get behind their team.

Okay, I'm generalising, but you get my drift.....

 

We do have some excellent younger fans who get behind the team as well, before anyone say this is an age thing.

[Wolfcastle]

Part of the reason atmosphere's aren't as good is the hostility and aggression of it has been taken out for a more family facing experience in the match going public and in the actual sport. Crowds are much bigger now and the hooligan-facing/nutter/ultra element is much diminished as the family element has much increased. People cant have it both ways.

That sterilisation has partly contributed to fans not being as good generally now and are prone to turning on their own teams, managers etc ahead of the opponents, opposition fans, referees. And not in exceptional circumstances but just on a run of bad form.

 

In my experience terraces versus seating isn't a big factor. The atmosphere 93-96 in an all-seater/virtually all-seated (Milburn Paddock and Gallowgate were the least contributiing areas to it) was night and day compared to 88-91 and mostly terracing.

[Wolfcastle]

23 hours ago, Wandy said:

Hear what you are saying, but just because almost everywhere is dreadful doesn’t mean that we should accept it. We can get it to at least 75% as good as it was just 20 years ago. And it’s already been pointed out that there is still an excellent atmosphere at places like Elland Road, City Ground and even Old Trafford.

 

I think that's selective again though. The atmospheres weren't good at either of those places before this spike. Leeds ground was half shut down, but still had something though, for most of the last 20years and Forest's totally unheralded as far back as you like until the last two seasons because of the unexpected rise and Old Trafford has been notoriously bad since the early 90s.

That's common with newly promoted teams after such a long exile. It tapered down to natural levels with Blackburn, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Sunderland and others after they got promoted with momentum or after a while away had good atmosphere's. It happened with us 93/94 then when we knew we were good and would likely win in 94/95 and not needed as much it wound down. If we had gone down last year and come back up it would be a lot better.

 

Radio Nottingham said  'were used to a good atmosphere at the City Ground, but blimey THAT was an atmosphere' about SJP this season.

[Whitley mag]

Not just folk on here who thought atmosphere was shit on Sunday. 

 

 

[South-Cheshire-Toon]

53 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Not just folk on here who thought atmosphere was shit on Sunday. 

 

 

 

So to start with - Didn't go, Didn't watch it live on tv, only seen hightlights and some posting on youtube.

 

But with regard to the post about the Nottingham game and others - there are several differences - 

 

1. The forest game is one of many - so there isn't, what i call "the fear of losing" which is what there was on Sunday.

2. At most games everyone is in the position they want to be - but on Sunday because of the ticket arrangements and numbers i get the feeling there wasn't enough of the right type of people to get an atmosphere going.

 

[Wandy]

2 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Not just folk on here who thought atmosphere was shit on Sunday. 

 

 

 

"I’m expecting this six years deep into PIF ownership, not now".

 

This highlights the real worry, I think. The club is changing so fast, and if we are not careful then it could be the case that the club's fanbase could quickly be unrecognisable from the one that NUFC are famous for.

 

All fan groups, fanzines etc have got to come together to ensure that like-minded people are together at SJP. The cup final was disappointing but an anomaly, in the grand scheme of things, as there can be various mitigating circumstances that make the atmosphere bad in those one-off games. But there needs to be a system put in place at SJP so that everyone knows more-or-less what to expect atmosphere-wise at home games.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Who would have thought people who have travelled 300 miles and been on the drink for 2 or 3 solid days would struggle to do their best?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[RobsonsWonderland]

I know it's not great at the moment but is the answer not just .. you do you?

 

Some will never sing, others  might be waiting to join in, we could be the ones who don't care what people thing and just do it.

 

Then it grows to another 10 people near you singing etc etc.

 

The majority join in on all the flag waving, Bruno song etc but to change things you need a spark.

 

As daft as it sounds do we need a Wor Songs campaign.. and all agree on what new song we are going to chant for the next home game! 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Wor Noise or Wor Chants or Wor Songs is a good idea, could have a few people around the different sections who have the unofficial job of starting off songs. 

 

I don't volunteer

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[bobbydazzla]

Standing sections is the key to a better atmosphere in my opinion. If we were starting from a blank slate I think it'd have huge impact to make significant sections of the Gallowgate and Leazes safe standing and if people want to sit for the game move them elsewhere (easier said than done, I know).

 

I'm down the front of the Strawberry Corner most matches, we all stand, plenty sing, it's the best part of the ground for atmosphere. And I was in L7 when we had the singing section and it was the same.

 

If you're sat down watching a game or gig, then the atmosphere will suffer, people are more likely to be animated and create noise if they're stood up.

 

There's still people in Strawberry Corner who only seem to go to games to be ultra negative and hurl abuse at our own players, but that's a different problem.

 

 

[Superior Acuña]

Where I normally sit in the lower Gallowgate it doesn’t seem there’s room for official standing. It’s tight as anything there - knees up against the seat in front, there’s no way they’re fitting a bar in there too without restructuring the steps etc