Yankuba Minteh (on loan at Feyenoord)

[The College Dropout]

46 minutes ago, madras said:

Isn't that part if the plan ? Develop and if they are good but not up to where out first team is at that time, sell for a profit as that seems to be the clearest way to boost ffp.

Yeh it is. But it's not so much fun as a fan.

 

37 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

Yep. It's all well and good talking about trying to emulate Brighton, but you imagine the path to our first team compared to theirs is going to be blocked by higher level players. 

Aye. If all goes to plan, we'll end up more Chelsea/City than Brighton. Young prospects just becoming an FFP vehicle. Loads of loans.

 

It's just a new reality as a fan. I follow Real Madrid. A lot of youngsters have been given chances and kicked on in recent years. But you understand a good amount of wonderkid-type signings will barely play for Real. Even borderline or undoubtedly world-class players like Odegaard or Hakimi. Hakimi in particular I didn't understand, he's Madrid born and raised, joined Real at 8.

 

As the club grows, it will lose that bit of personal connection. Probably suits our fanbase, our academy and young signings love to celebrate against us anyway and the fans are mean to them too.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by The College Dropout

[greydos]

3 hours ago, gdm said:

Hearts on paper was a good club for Kuol. It should have been a good loan for him but didn’t get the minutes 

With a rough Diamond, Hearts will always be the wrong Club. Needs to be somewhere that’ll put in the Spade work. A team in Texas that can hold em til they’re 21 is what we want.

 

(the things we come up with whilst passing time on the loo)

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by greydos
Spelling

[JonBez comesock]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

One slight drawback of becoming a top side is... some really talented players might rightly never get a first-team opportunity. 

 

At the moment, if we have any eventual PL level footballer in our academy. It's total mismanagement if they never got any game time like a Toney.

Surely there is lots of opportunities in the carabao cup , Fa cup , lower league premier league teams at home , papa johns u23 comp ?

[The Prophet]

Seems like a missed opportunity to be spending the Maddison cash on an unproven youngster.

[Deuce]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

One slight drawback of becoming a top side is... some really talented players might rightly never get a first-team opportunity. 

 

At the moment, if we have any eventual PL level footballer in our academy. It's total mismanagement if they never got any game time like a Toney.

City seem to have figured out the right balance with Foden, Lewis, Palmer, Charles all being integrated into the first team. Helps when you can provide meaningful minutes across multiple competitions.

[timeEd32]

17 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Seems like a missed opportunity to be spending the Maddison cash on an unproven youngster.

How much are we really spending though? If we give him a five year contract won’t he count as slightly over £1m per year? And then if we loan him out are his wages essentially 0?

[madras]

7 minutes ago, Deuce said:

City seem to have figured out the right balance with Foden, Lewis, Palmer, Charles all being integrated into the first team. Helps when you can provide meaningful minutes across multiple competitions.

And fwiw I dont think Palmer or Foden ever went out on loan.

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

Yep. It's all well and good talking about trying to emulate Brighton, but you imagine the path to our first team compared to theirs is going to be blocked by higher level players. 

 

We're going to be signing higher rated young prospects too don't forget, and I'm pretty certain, there will be a great emphasis on creating a pathway for them to come through. A lot of clubs are just lazy about this.

[Deuce]

Just now, madras said:

And fwiw I dont think Palmer or Foden ever went out on loan.

 

According to wiki, none of the four have!

 

[madras]

Just now, Deuce said:

 

According to wiki, none of the four have!

 

I was fairly sure on those two, had no idea on the other two.

[Deuce]

Anderson needs to stay put next season imo.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh it is. But it's not so much fun as a fan.

 

Aye. If all goes to plan, we'll end up more Chelsea/City than Brighton. Young prospects just becoming an FFP vehicle. Loads of loans.

 

It's just a new reality as a fan. I follow Real Madrid. A lot of youngsters have been given chances and kicked on in recent years. But you understand a good amount of wonderkid-type signings will barely play for Real. Even borderline or undoubtedly world-class players like Odegaard or Hakimi. Hakimi in particular I didn't understand, he's Madrid born and raised, joined Real at 8.

 

As the club grows, it will lose that bit of personal connection. Probably suits our fanbase, our academy and young signings love to celebrate against us anyway and the fans are mean to them too.

 

 

 

 

It's really all about the type of manager you have really, and how committed they are to bringing young players through.

 

Arteta's turn around at Arsenal really picked up when he turned to the youngsters more.

 

It's definitely doable. Just need the right man in charge. Can see Eddie taking it seriously and pulling it off.

[Kanji]

Toney was never becoming what he is today without leaving us for good. 

[The College Dropout]

15 minutes ago, Deuce said:

City seem to have figured out the right balance with Foden, Lewis, Palmer, Charles all being integrated into the first team. Helps when you can provide meaningful minutes across multiple competitions.

Only 1 of these is a first-team regular. And he's not in the first team right now.

 

I've never even seen Charles play.

 

Longstaff probably has more minutes than them all combined - including Foden.

2 hours ago, JonBez comesock said:

Surely there is lots of opportunities in the carabao cup , Fa cup , lower league premier league teams at home , papa johns u23 comp ?

How's that worked for City in terms of getting youngsters meaningful minutes?

 

19 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

It's really all about the type of manager you have really, and how committed they are to bringing young players through.

 

Arteta's turn around at Arsenal really picked up when he turned to the youngsters more.

 

It's definitely doable. Just need the right man in charge. Can see Eddie taking it seriously and pulling it off.

 

It's more about the club culture than anything and investment. Arsenal only started playing youngsters in the league when the club fell out of the top 4 and they kept buying duds. They brought in Willian & Pepe for serious money to play in Martinelli and Saka's current positions. They will likely sell Balogun (scored the most goals of any player 21 & Under in a top 5 European league) & Nketiah this season to fund another striker purchase. That's just how it is at the top of the game.

 

Liverpool have only given minutes to young midfielders due to a lack of investment according to their fans. It might end up paying off with Jones & the Spanish lad. But they didn't intend for there to be this pathway and it probably cost them a CL place.

 

Clubs like Villa are perfectly placed to take advantage of a top academy and young signings. ATM at least. 

 

It is what it is.

[catlover24]

19 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Toney was never becoming what he is today without leaving us for good. 

By becoming what he is today do you mean a gambling addict that has just been banned for 8 months?

[The College Dropout]

20 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Toney was never becoming what he is today without leaving us for good. 

Under Ashley sure. But another mid-level / relegation scrapper. Why not? He would've become who he is now with Brighton for sure.

[HaydnNUFC]

Know nowt about him. Hope he's good.

 

I hope we see a lot more youngsters get a chance next season with 4 competitions coming up. Constantly loaning out these lads to League 2  League 1 and shite SPL sides does nowt for their development, even if they get decent minutes. 

 

Given as a team with our style of play and smart signings we're on a similar trajectory to early Klopp Liverpool, we should play a lot of our youngsters in League Cup games, especially at home against shit sides. Look at some of the lineups that Liverpool have put out in that competition, you'd recognise like 3 or 4 names. 

[JonBez comesock]

49 minutes ago, Deuce said:

Anderson needs to stay put next season imo.

I think he is half decent  , quite slow , skilful (ish) , 

 

looked good against forest in patches 

 

other than that , I don’t know what sort of player he is or meant to be 

 

I love home grown players and hope longstaff keeps improving and Miley breaks into the first team 

 

I don’t think Anderson is good enough to get into our team and I only see this team improving 

[STM]

What we signing him for? 4/5m  I think it's safe to say our scouting hasn't gone particularly well if we don't recoup that back on him.

 

We are probably paying less than 1m per year over the length of his contract and potentially getting a couple of loan fees in too. It's hardly going to cost us a penny in the long haul.

 

On the other hand, if he's even half decent we could make.... who knows? On any future sale.

 

The idea is to sign loads of these young kids, Kuol, Minteh etc and if just one makes the "big time", it could potentially pay for another 6/7 similar deals. They either become part of the first team, or supplement our income through their sale. 

 

It's smart business sense and could provide us with a couple of future stars.

[bowlingcrofty]

If all else fails then West Ham will take him off our hands for £20m.

[Matt1892]

1 hour ago, madras said:

And fwiw I dont think Palmer or Foden ever went out on loan.

City didn’t loan out Lavia or Edozie either but they did Bezunu, all sold to Southampton for for over £30 million combined and a good chance all have some sort of buy back option. None of them played a league game for City either from what I can tell.

 

It helps balance the books if you Can get it right.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Only 1 of these is a first-team regular. And he's not in the first team right now.

 

I've never even seen Charles play.

 

Longstaff probably has more minutes than them all combined - including Foden.

How's that worked for City in terms of getting youngsters meaningful minutes?

 

 

It's more about the club culture than anything and investment. Arsenal only started playing youngsters in the league when the club fell out of the top 4 and they kept buying duds. They brought in Willian & Pepe for serious money to play in Martinelli and Saka's current positions. They will likely sell Balogun (scored the most goals of any player 21 & Under in a top 5 European league) & Nketiah this season to fund another striker purchase. That's just how it is at the top of the game.

 

Liverpool have only given minutes to young midfielders due to a lack of investment according to their fans. It might end up paying off with Jones & the Spanish lad. But they didn't intend for there to be this pathway and it probably cost them a CL place.

 

Clubs like Villa are perfectly placed to take advantage of a top academy and young signings. ATM at least. 

 

It is what it is.

 

Yeah, it's interesting. Going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

 

No one's really quite got it right with youngsters really coming through at a high level like you say.

 

But there's always a first for everything. If we manage it somehow it would be pretty impressive.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Know nowt about him. Hope he's good.

 

I hope we see a lot more youngsters get a chance next season with 4 competitions coming up. Constantly loaning out these lads to League 2  League 1 and shite SPL sides does nowt for their development, even if they get decent minutes. 

 

Given as a team with our style of play and smart signings we're on a similar trajectory to early Klopp Liverpool, we should play a lot of our youngsters in League Cup games, especially at home against shit sides. Look at some of the lineups that Liverpool have put out in that competition, you'd recognise like 3 or 4 names. 

Disagree with that. Our biggest issue is our lads haven't been the most talented. Eventually, we'll have a Chelsea-like setup with a Vitesse which is ugly but good for player development. But we need quality players for that to work.

 

League Cup is not an effective pathway to the first-team and is at max. 6 games. The second-string European competitions are better for player development due to a decent run being 8-10 games + 3 or 4 in the league cup. Krul got his chance that way iirc.

 

56 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

City didn’t loan out Lavia or Edozie either but they did Bezunu, all sold to Southampton for for over £30 million combined and a good chance all have some sort of buy back option. None of them played a league game for City either from what I can tell.

 

It helps balance the books if you Can get it right.

Both are really good too. It's one of the worst aspects of following a "top club". Elite level youngsters are just products to be sold.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by The College Dropout

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, it's interesting. Going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

 

No one's really quite got it right with youngsters really coming through at a high level like you say.

 

But there's always a first for everything. If we manage it somehow it would be pretty impressive.

 

 

That's true. Someone will get it right. Man Utd under SAF didn't always have the most talented youngsters but they put them in to fight and run hard and many of them did a good job for some time. Your Welbeck's, Evans, O'Shea.. not world beaters but good players, hard working. That seems to have disappeared. Obviously, Wenger loved a youth product. He sold Sylvinho to create a pathway for Cole. That rarely happens these days.

 

Thinking about it. Fergie and Wenger didn't miss a beat with youth products. If anything they would give youth products too many chances. Fergie even gave Tom Cleverley decent minutes man. Different era I guess, different culture.

 

FFP encourages clubs to sell youth products as well which isn't good.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by The College Dropout

[HaydnNUFC]

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Don't agree with that. Our biggest issue is our lads haven't been the most talented. Eventually, we'll have a Chelsea-like setup with a Vitesse which is ugly but good for player development. But we need quality players for that to work.

 

League Cup is not an effective pathway to the first-team and is at max. 6 games. The second-string European competitions are better for player development due to a decent run being 8-10 games + 3 or 4.

 

 

My main issue is we don't give them any minutes at all. Naff loans ad infinitum until they reach ~24 and can't be considered young players anymore. It looks like we're not going to thankfully, but the idea of loaning out Anderson and/or L. Miley irks me because of that.

 

Liverpool have always played young players in League Cup games; 3-6 of them alongside seasoned pros like Oxlade-Chamberlain, Firmino and Gomez and it's a positive environment for them especially at Anfield. A full house backing them and a taste of first team football. Some of them may not end up being good enough, but at least they're given a chance. Some of their last few lineups;

 

Derby (H); Kelleher, Ramsay, Phillips, Gomez, Tsimikas, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Bajcetic, Clark, Frauendorf, Stewart, Carvalho

Norwich (A); Kelleher, Bradley, Konate, Gomez, Tsimikas, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jones, Keita, Gordon, Origi, Minamino

Leicester (H); Kelleher, Bradley, Gomez, Koumetio, Tsimikas, Henderson, Morton, Oxlade-Chamberlain, N. Williams, Firmino, Minamino

Lincoln (A); Adrian, N. Williams, R. Williams, van Dijk, Tsimikas, Jones, Grujic, Shaqiri, Elliott, Minamino, Origi

 

I've never heard of some of those names and probably won't see them again as some may have been sold already. But at least they were given that chance in their club's colours.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by HaydnNUFC