Schecter Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 He made a massive string of errors but I'll back the lad if he's willing to turn it round. Got to get behind them, especially if they acknowledge that they've been a fucking tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just now, Dyeyzzon said: Even if he was allowed to play this weekend I'm not sure if I want us to have a media circus all over him like. Aye, can’t see Eddie playing him, or even being present, for that reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Tonali Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: I know there isn’t - but the point is that you don’t bet on outcomes because it opens up the potentiality of corrupt practice. Which is why it doesn’t matter if you’ve bet on your team or the opposition. Calciopoli was a bit more recent, it’s just that the Milan - Brescia game is a great singular example. He was 6 during Calciopoli, but sure, technically more recent than 92/93 I agree with what you're saying above, the part I strongly disagree with is that betting to lose a game you're playing in is no better than betting to win a game you're playing in. Ideally you wouldn't do either of course, but there is a massive distinction between the 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Unbelievable said: Aye, can’t see Eddie playing him, or even being present, for that reason. There’s a good chance that the lad’s mind will not be 100% focussed on the match tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just now, LiquidAK said: He was 6 during Calciopoli, but sure, technically more recent than 92/93 I agree with what you're saying above, the part I strongly disagree with is that betting to lose a game you're playing in is no better than betting to win a game you're playing in. Ideally you wouldn't do either of course, but there is a massive distinction between the 2 That’s fair enough - we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 209 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: Martin Hardy must be an absolute idiot if he seriously thinks Howe will select Tonali on Saturday. Not because of any moral issue but because of the players current state of mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 “Ideally” Utterly idiotic to do either in fairness. Doubt it will make a significant difference to sentencing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kocunar Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Betting on your win, while wrong from insider trading information, is fundamentally different from betting on your loss. For example. there is a famous story where Croatian players promised to give money to Latvian players if they win their last match which would help Croatia qualify. That is legal, and is called a stimulant, whereas giving someone money to lose would be illegal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabtoon Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Football is so hypocritical, the sport itself is entrenched in Betting adds. every game showing on sky tv is just an add fest for betting. With SKY Bet being the Biggest example. young players need more education in the pitfalls of success in football. How to look after there lifestyles away from the game. The betting companies themselves should have a percentage deducted from there multi million or billion profits. To go towards helping gambling addiction etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just now, kocunar said: Betting on your win, while wrong from insider trading information, is fundamentally different from betting on your loss. For example. there is a famous story where Croatian players promised to give money to Latvian players if they win their last match which would help Croatia qualify. That is legal, and is called a stimulant, whereas giving someone money to lose would be illegal. This is where I'm coming from, of course it's wrong and you shouldn't do it, but one is basically extra motivation for what you should be doing anyway and the result still depends on you doing your job, the other is giving you a massive conflict of interest and allows you to basically match fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, kocunar said: Betting on your win, while wrong from insider trading information, is fundamentally different from betting on your loss. For example. there is a famous story where Croatian players promised to give money to Latvian players if they win their last match which would help Croatia qualify. That is legal, and is called a stimulant, whereas giving someone money to lose would be illegal. That’s not betting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just hope it doesn’t bleed into affecting the squad. I don’t think it will but we’ll be without a player for likely 12 months who would have contributed more and more as the season went on. Addiction or not, you can’t bet on your own team and you shouldn’t ever be betting on the sport you play. We’ve been fed some lies by him and his agent. It’s hard to be really sympathetic but the best long-term outcome to this is that he dedicates himself to football, sorts his life out and produces the best football of his life after his ban. Given his age, this is possible but he will need a lot of support. Let’s hope his character and resilience is strong enough to come back from this because the alternative - spending a fortune on a player who fades away because his confidence is shot and he never fully acclimatises to here - would be way worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Harry 209 said: Martin Hardy must be an absolute idiot if he seriously thinks Howe will select Tonali on Saturday. Not because of any moral issue but because of the players current state of mind. I don’t think it matters. Likely Tonali has not been in the right mind since August I have done some Internet check and apparently Fagioli has self-reported to Juventus back in early August. After that it’s just a matter of time that Fagioli would be caught and exposed the whole story. Tonali knew this will come. Just a matter of time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kocunar Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: That’s not betting I didn't say it was, I'm just saying betting on your loss has an another extra layer of wrongness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dyeyzzon said: Even if he was allowed to play this weekend I'm not sure if I want us to have a media circus all over him like. Agree. Dont want him anywhere near the team as long as this is up in the air. Can have a negative effect on the whole team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, Dyeyzzon said: Even if he was allowed to play this weekend I'm not sure if I want us to have a media circus all over him like. I'm frankly surprised if we are willing to play him, but if it's true I would back Eddie's judgement. He might have a bit more background than we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, nufc123 said: Agree. Dont want him anywhere near the team as long as this is up in the air. Can have a negative effect on the whole team. surely Howe has made the decision based on whether it actually has had a negative impact on the players already or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kocunar said: I didn't say it was, I'm just saying betting on your loss has an another extra layer of wrongness. Betting on your own defeat provided stronger evidence of match-fixing, but the potential for match-fixing remains with betting on your own team to win. And it is matches being fixed which is the issue with players gambling. edit: match fixing can be very difficult to prove - a player could bet on their own team winning knowing that the match is fixed, and yet the proof of match-fixing never gets uncovered. Edited October 18, 2023 by TheBrownBottle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: Betting on your own defeat provided stronger evidence of match-fixing, but the potential for match-fixing remains with betting on your own team to win. And it is matches being fixed which is the issue with players gambling. Also it's been reported that he always bet on Milan to win while he was there. Does that mean he bet on them when they played us? I know the answer's probably no, but the question has to be in the back of people's mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristov Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Milan have well done the dirty on us here. I'd love to be in the executive area come the game that night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 What does it matter if it’s under their jurisdiction or not? If he’s bet on his own team in Italy, he’ll be getting a ban in the PL I’m sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said: surely Howe has made the decision based on whether it actually has had a negative impact on the players already or not? Sure if the guy himself is mental stable enough. But the media wont talk about the game. It will be all Tonali. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TRon said: Also it's been reported that he always bet on Milan to win while he was there. Does that mean he bet on them when they played us? I know the answer's probably no, but the question has to be in the back of people's mind. Sadly, you’re right. Especially if he’s been using secretive betting websites etc. Like you said, probably not (we hope), but by doing it in the first place you leave yourself open to suspicion. edit: the stories coming out also relate to what Tonali has admitted to. He’s owned up to betting on Milan - but only to win. Would he willingly state that he bet against them? Edited October 18, 2023 by TheBrownBottle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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