Sandro Tonali

[Sempiternal]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Klopp does it all the time too. 
 

I mean it’s fairly standard. Unless the manager thinks you’re the type to crumble after criticism. You make a mistake that costs a goal - especially a mistake caused by a lack of effort and application. The manager will dig you out at the earliest convenience and you would deserve it. It was spineless.  

100 percent, I didn’t even think it was a particularly controversial thing to say. I think Tonali deserves it for that, it’s not a mistake that he mis controlled a pass, or a poor giveaway, it was a clear lack of effort, and desire. It will have pissed Eddie off no doubt, and rightly so. That’s just how you keep standards highs. I really like Tonali but today was absolutely horrible in my eyes. 

[Sempiternal]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

Was it spineless or a brain fart?

I feel the first clearance was just a mistake, that happens. The lack of effort to even close down that shot was really poor. He didn’t even try. Miggy makes mistakes but he never slacks off. 

[Kanj]

I’m sorry, Pope’s error was the catalyst moment that turned the whole thing into what it was. It was the flash point. He created that entire situation. And then when he could have made a save to finally end it he fumbled the ball into ferguson. 
 

Tonali should have cleared that ball and closed down better tho. 100% agree with that.

[Sempiternal]

Just now, Kanji said:

I’m sorry, Pope’s error was the catalyst moment that turned the whole thing into what it was. It was the flash point. He created that entire situation. And then when he could have made a save to finally end it he fumbled the ball into ferguson. 
 

Tonali should have cleared that ball and closed down better tho. 100% agree with that.

Don’t disagree with you at all, pope set the events in motion,and was poor for the goal. But I don’t think it was lack of effort on his part, he looks shook for whatever reason. But Tonali just didn’t even want to try, even a minimal amount of effort to rush the shot, close the angle, at least make it somewhat more difficult. It looked so bad on the replay. A lot of our success last season was based on work ethic and he shouldn’t be exempt from that. Imo of course.  

[Kanj]

I’ll agree with that mate. 

[Cronky]

The problem is that you couldn't really call it a 'mistake'. A 5 year old knows that you're supposed to try to block a shot in that situation. His attitude just seemed all wrong, and in fact he seemed a bit tentative throughout. 

 

Perhaps he's mentally a bit brittle, and Eddie needs to work on that. The reports from AC Milan seemed to suggest that his form blew hot and cold. Maybe he finds it easy to perform in home games. After he was subbed, we seemed to show a bit more fight, but by then it was too late.

 

[Guest]

When he went off we had a 5 minute spell where we won a couple of corners and that was it. We were even worse after the substitutions.

[Displayname]

He was surrounded by a couple of Brighton players, think that was the reason for being hesitant about selling himself going for the block. Looking at the rest of his game I think it’s safe to say it’s not about giving a shit atleast.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Displayname

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

6 hours ago, Sempiternal said:

 Lol, they absolutely will be pulling him up on that in analysis. But go off, king ?. I am employed in professional football, unlike you though. 

 

 

 

Howay then, what do you do & how do you know he isn't "employed in professional football" ? 

Sports science, Analyst, Coach, Cone putter outer, Masseur ? 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by RUHRLYASLEEVESUP

[Myleftboot]

I think he’s getting a bit of unnecessary stick. He’s a young lad in the hardest league in the world,he’s going to need time to get up to speed. He’s only played 4 prem games and been subbed off in all of them. Give him time I’m sure he’ll be one of our best players this season.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Myleftboot said:

I think he’s getting a bit of unnecessary stick. He’s a young lad in the hardest league in the world,he’s going to need time to get up to speed. He’s only played 4 prem games and been subbed off in all of them. Give him time I’m sure he’ll be one of our best players this season.

What’s unnecessary stick?

 

People are actually being kind to him and giving him grace. 
 

The clearance people are giving so much grace. It looked like a lazy half asses attempt but everyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was simply a Miskick and a mistake. 
 

We are saying the lack of effort and application to block the shot is unacceptable. People make mistakes in every walk of life that’s fine. But a lack of effort and desire deserves to be called out. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

I watched the Gallowgate Shots lads last night absolutely lay into others and saying Tonali shouldn't be taken off. While I'd like to also see him stay on, his output since Villa just hasn't been that good while still having had some decent moments. Looking at his numbers, you can see why he's maybe not seeing games out.

 

Stats aren't the only evidence, it's a small sample size and he's had some very tough first fixtures for his adaptation period, but a few things are interesting:

 

1. I presume this is tactical but the strongest spots on his heatmap to date has been in an RB spot and RCM. He has very few touches anywhere other than on the right. This'd be fine if his role was fixed but we think he's meant to be rotating with Joelinton/Bruno. 

2. Pass completion in the opposition half has been very low at 70%. Far lower than both Joelinton and Bruno at 80%. 

3. Defensively, his output has been minimal compared to the Brazilians for interceptions, tackles, ball recoveries, and duels. Again, maybe tactical but just not involved enough here. He's also behind Longstaff 22/23 on some of those stats too.

 

He has obvious class and will be a monstrous signing for us in time. There are already positive signs of upgrade in chance creation and dribbling etc. but we know Howe expects midfielders to put in dirty work as a bare minimum.

[The College Dropout]

If he’s meant to be rotating with Joe and Bruno…. Why do they never rotate?

[andycap]

Is he not pushing forward with trips seeming to be staying back nowadays. To me it seems like joelinton is crippling us with our shape as he's obviously not fit so can't help gordon out when going forward. And in turn bruno doesn't have an out ball when receiving it. Basically a passenger at the moment might aswell play Anderson. 

[The Prophet]

Aye, at times he's provided width on the right while Trippier has tucked in to support Bruno. No idea if it's an attempt to make us less predictable.

[Irish Magpie]

As far as I can see he reads the game very well, but I am no analyst. He is struggling a little, perhaps, with the pace of our league and needs more time, but every fucker on the pitch suffered under the passing triangles of Brighton in that game. They were excellent, and maybe we were lacking in more than just midfield. Personally I thought Burn had a shocker.

 

From memory that is four games now where I've been a bit dismayed that Eddie has not changed something that clearly needed changing. Last thing I want to do is criticise Eddie Howe as I think he is brilliant. But there comes a time you need to be more pragmatic with the need of three points paramount. The system cannot be infallible, no system is, it needs the ability to be adaptable beyond changing a few players in like for like roles - or near enough like for like. If we had sat back a bit, and not been so expansive, just keeping runners forward I think it would have been a different game.

[andycap]

Against brighton I'd of hauled off Targett and joelinton for hall and Anderson. Give it 15 minutes in the second half see if things improved. I don't like this disrupt the middle three subs howe makes. By hauling off joelinton and arguably our best player tonali you lose that pace and quality on the right. 

[duo]

I watched a youtube video who had him down as getting £210k a week - surely not?

[Gallowgate Toon]

50 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If he’s meant to be rotating with Joe and Bruno…. Why do they never rotate?

Bruno has burst up the right a few times in those games and Tonali has switched in. Did it well against Villa but not others.

 

Bruno's heatmap is actually mad compared to Joe and Tonali. He has so much responsibility.

[Dr Jinx]

So the first goal.. yeah it was a bit of a lazy lunge for the ball and he turned away from the shot. But the initial lunge he was never getting that ball with the bounce of it.

 

Second part is harder to defend.

 

But first goal was a comedy of errors.. the way Trippier threw himself to the ground didn’t help either. He always seems to get a pass when others don’t.

[Beth]

14 minutes ago, duo said:

I watched a youtube video who had him down as getting £210k a week - surely not?

That's the widely reported figure and 90k more than the next best paid (Bruno/Trippier/Isak).

[ponsaelius]

I can't find a single report that says he's on that.

 

Romano reported it at 7+2 million euros. So around 100k going up to 140k including bonuses.

 

Gazzetta reported it at a similar 8 million euros flat.

 

Where is the report of 210k a week?

[Menace]

It's off some website that people seem to take for gospel. Even has Targett on £100k for some reason. I very much doubt we've broken our wage structure and offered Tonali 200k+

[Lotus]

His minutes are possibly down to the load the strength & conditioning team are recommending until he’s up to Howe levels of fitness and endurance.

[TRon]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

If he’s meant to be rotating with Joe and Bruno…. Why do they never rotate?

 

Joelinton plays left side, not sure how he would rotate with him in the current formation.