Harvey Barnes

[Pata]

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

It says "Based on this Barnes basically only scores goals." Are you still under this impression? All he does is score goals?

 

Based on the 10000 league minutes he played at Leicester, yes. His xA numbers were not that different to Almiron. As I said, I don't know what has happened this season but it's a massive outlier to his previous career.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Pata

[Erikse]

5 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Based on the 10000 league minutes he played at Leicester, yes. His xA numbers were not that different to Almiron. As I said, I don't what has happened this season but it's a massive outlier to his previous career.

 

People tried to tell you that his general play is better than you made it out to be (based on stats). And then, despite playing just a few games with his new team mates, he is showing just that. But I suppose that's just a coincidence. Maybe his long term injury magically transformed him?

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Erikse

[sushimonster85]

I imagine his xA numbers spiking (in a small sample size) this season isn't a fluke. I think it's part of his game Howe & his team will be working on. He could have had a couple of assists on Saturday had things turned out differently. 

[Erikse]

1 minute ago, sushimonster85 said:

I imagine his xA numbers spiking (in a small sample size) this season isn't a fluke. I think it's part of his game Howe & his team will be working on. He could have had a couple of assists on Saturday had things turned out differently. 

 

For how many months has he actually been training with us?

[Pata]

4 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

People tried to tell you that his general play is better than you made it out to be (based on stats). And then, despite playing just a few games with his new team mates, he is showing just that. But I suppose that's just a coincidence.

 

Please do explain why his xA numbers are 4-5x better than they were at Leicester during five seasons if his general play has always been so good.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Pata

[The College Dropout]

I'm with Pata on this one.

 

There was substantial data on his expected assists over many seasons.  It's fair enough to base on opinion on that. This small sample can't be compared to that. If he can maintain it, it will mean he has improved substantially as a player and/or that the system has allowed him to flourish.

 

The sample data is too small to draw any conclusions atm. Most of his minutes have been off the bench when the game is more open too.

[PRL]

Sadly we all knew with Almiron there would be a reversion to mean from October 2022 and it’s likely the same with this data on Barnes. It’s the nature of football that players go through streaks and I think claiming all prior data on Barnes is null and void after the stop start and limited season he’s had here is set up to disappoint. 

[ponsaelius]

Surely something like xA can be massively down to how a player is being used in a team.

[PRL]

7 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Surely something like xA can be massively down to how a player is being used in a team.

Agree with this, but I’ve not seen that Barnes is being used much differently than us than with Leicester. It can also be a lot to do with the players around him and the quality of them. Which ironically takes us back to ASM and the dross he had around him when with us. Not just the poor finishing, but the movement and the ability of those around him likely made it harder to register xA, not just actual assists 

[Jimburst]

Aye, Vardy was no slouch though.

[Erikse]

18 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Please do explain why his xA numbers are 4-5x better than they were at Leicester during five seasons if his general play has always been so good.

 

 

 

 

When I saw him play for Leicester, I did not see a player who was all about goals and nothing else. Would be interesting to ask a Leicester fan about this. Whether his assists were justified or not. I don't believe xA stats tell the whole story at all.

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, PRL said:

Sadly we all knew with Almiron there would be a reversion to mean from October 2022 and it’s likely the same with this data on Barnes. It’s the nature of football that players go through streaks and I think claiming all prior data on Barnes is null and void after the stop start and limited season he’s had here is set up to disappoint. 

Nah many people thought that was Almiron's level. And Almiron exceeded his Xg in that purple patch.

 

Likewise the sample data for Barnes is too small. Even if he keeps it up until the end of the season, we can't draw solid conclusions. But we will see a lot of his style.

 

His weight and technique when passing is impressive.

[Erikse]

2 minutes ago, Jimburst said:

Aye, Vardy was no slouch though.

 

Good thing Isak is also a good finisher then. If the argument is that his assists were due to having a good striker converting his passes at Leicester. Almiron has played alongside Wilson and Isak, both really good finishers. You don't see Almiron getting 10 assists in a season.

[Jimburst]

I'm not arguing either way tbh. Did Barnes play for them during their title winning season?

[Erikse]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah many people thought that was Almiron's level. And Almiron exceeded his Xg in that purple patch.

 

Likewise the sample data for Barnes is too small. Even if he keeps it up until the end of the season, we can't draw solid conclusions. But we will see a lot of his style.

 

His weight and technique when passing is impressive.

 

It was argued that his xA matched that of Almiron last summer. If you watch some of the assists that he provides here, you will notice that Almiron has barely made a single delivery like some of those Barnes made for Leicester in his entire Newcastle carreer. Does these chances give him a high xA? I'm seeing some good finishing, so maybe not. But the delivery and the vision for the assists in this video are impressive, regardless of how well they did to score. In this video I'm really not seeing a different player from his best games here so far.

 

 

Now, I know that this is just a compilation video. So I went to check their forum. There were frustrations in the last season about him being too predictable and allways cutting in to shoot. They were also saying that he used to be so good at going on the outside to cross with his left, and was frustrated that he didn't do this anymore. Other than that, from earlier seasons, it was the goals and assists that they really appreciated him for. Yes, he wasn't praised for his general play outside og g/a, but I was really struggling to find criticism of his delivery or service, outside of that last season. After that season of 10 assists, some were arguing that he must be one of the best crossers and finishers there is with his weaker foot, because his crosses and finishing were so impressive with his left (grain of salt, easy to overexaggerate your own players a bit). People were also saying that his pace alone just provides them with g/a consistenly. Some were saying last year that he will get loads of goals and assists with us, because we have a better team and can create space for him to use his pace. What they criticised him for the most for was during the years was his consistency. That he would go missing in games. And something about mentality, because apparently you could tell he would have a bad day at the office pretty early on. Funnily enough if you go far enough back, the thing that they complained about the most was his finishing. Apparently he improved massively on that.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Erikse

[TRC]

1 hour ago, Jimburst said:

I'm not arguing either way tbh. Did Barnes play for them during their title winning season?

Not to make you feel old, but that was 8 years ago and Barnes is only 26. He was in their youth system.

[STM]

The good news is that any wrinkles in Harvey Barnes game will be identified and worked on... by a coaching group who have done wonders with multiple players.

 

He's also now going to be playing in the most talented side he has ever played with in his career.

[Erikse]

7 minutes ago, STM said:

The good news is that any wrinkles in Harvey Barnes game will be identified and worked on... by a coaching group who have done wonders with multiple players.

 

He's also now going to be playing in the most talented side he has ever played with in his career.

 

They also mentioned the manager, yes. They had more faith in Howe getting the best out of him than Rodgers to say the least.

 

As allways, the opinions were a bit split. Some were waving him goodbye, and others were disappointed at not getting more for him. We knew they had to sell though, so it's hard to get like £50m for him then.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Erikse

[Kanj]

All I know is from what I've seen, I did not expect him to be as involved in every aspect of our play based on how he played at Leicester. I thought his creative and cute passing were top v Tottenham (the little flick pass to Anderon for his chance in the 2nd half was awesome). If that is a truer representation of the player going forward then that may be down to his role with us and his coaching he's now getting. 

[cubaricho]

First xG and now xA? Y'all can't be serious?  

[Cf]

14 hours ago, cubaricho said:

First xG and now xA? Y'all can't be serious?  

 

It makes sense

 

Arguably in some ways xA is a more useful metric than xG. A top quality striker can outperform xG by being good.

 

WIth assists though you're at the mercy of who you are assisting. You'll have a much higher assist number if it's Isak you're creating the chance for vs Gayle for instance.

 

it's just a way to measure the amount and quality of chances created. As with any other stat it's not the be all and end all. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Assists is a weird stat in football because the numbers are so low. A bit of luck either way can easily give you 30% more assists on a season or whatever. 
 

I’m pretty sure analysts don’t put too much value on the actual assists number. 

[Erikse]

1 hour ago, Cf said:

 

It makes sense

 

Arguably in some ways xA is a more useful metric than xG. A top quality striker can outperform xG by being good.

 

WIth assists though you're at the mercy of who you are assisting. You'll have a much higher assist number if it's Isak you're creating the chance for vs Gayle for instance.

 

it's just a way to measure the amount and quality of chances created. As with any other stat it's not the be all and end all. 

 

What xA number you are getting also depends on chemistry with teammates, tactics, how opponents set ut against you, your teammates movements, how they are setting you up, and so on. Again several Leicester fans seemed to be under the impression that Harvey Barnes would have even more impressive numbers with us, in terms of both assists and goals. I think he was just an underrated player, and we are starting to see that. I don't think that he has transformed in a couple of months of training with a new team after a long term injury. It took Gordon way longer than that, and Gordon was younger.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2024 by Erikse

[Adam]

Less xA xG bollocks, lets just enjoy this all over again. 
 

 

[Checko]

23 minutes ago, Adam said:

Less xA xG bollocks, lets just enjoy this all over again. 
 

 

Wonder what Gordon's xA was there.