Harvey Barnes

[Yorkie]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

In our current position we cannot afford to have two expensive players who play the same position and seemingly can't be accommodated in the starting XI at the same time. There's little point in having two good left wingers when we don't have a right winger (with apologies to Murphy's current form).

 

How does it feel to be gaslit...?

[timeEd32]

23 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

How does it feel to be gaslit...?

 

What am I being gaslit about?

[Yorkie]

33 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

What am I being gaslit about?

 

Accepting the notion that a club like us ("in our position") shouldn't have strength in depth because of the ridiculous rules which are designed to limit our capabilities. 

 

Having players of Barnes' quality in reserve is a brilliant thing and the sign of a very, very good squad that can go places. Outrageous that we shouldn't have that. 

 

Just get a RW as well. If it takes another PSR cycle to achieve it, or gambling on youth - so be it. Unfair, but if that's what we need to do. Don't undermine the squad by sacrificing quality in depth. 

 

I'd be gutted if Barnes went. I doubt he will.

[timeEd32]

I don't disagree with any of that. PSR is poorly constructed and unfair. We should be able to have depth in each position, particularly if owners are willing to spend money.

 

But if we accept the rules aren't changing, at least in the near term, then spending 3-4% of our revenue on a 27 year old who is only a backup LW is a poor use of the resources we have. This has nothing to do with the player, who I love, and I would be annoyed if we were forced to sell him, but as we look around at our options to create flexibility and improve the first XI this is almost certainly an option under consideration.

 

I also realize that if we do sell him Gordon will get hurt the next day.

[Hanshithispantz]

He's more than a back-up LW like, he's an excellent sub to bring on when we need a goal and we'd be far less dangerous across 90 minutes without him - we just haven't needed him recently as games have already been dead by the time he's come on.

 

 

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

He's more than a back-up LW like, he's an excellent sub to bring on when we need a goal and we'd be far less dangerous across 90 minutes without him - we just haven't needed him recently as games have already been dead by the time he's come on.

 

 

And had we been in Europe with those extra games are we playing Gordon every game ?

[Gawalls]

7 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Accepting the notion that a club like us ("in our position") shouldn't have strength in depth because of the ridiculous rules which are designed to limit our capabilities. 

 

Having players of Barnes' quality in reserve is a brilliant thing and the sign of a very, very good squad that can go places. Outrageous that we shouldn't have that. 

 

Just get a RW as well. If it takes another PSR cycle to achieve it, or gambling on youth - so be it. Unfair, but if that's what we need to do. Don't undermine the squad by sacrificing quality in depth. 

 

I'd be gutted if Barnes went. I doubt he will.

👏👏👏

[ExiledGeordie]

8 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Accepting the notion that a club like us ("in our position") shouldn't have strength in depth because of the ridiculous rules which are designed to limit our capabilities. 

 

Having players of Barnes' quality in reserve is a brilliant thing and the sign of a very, very good squad that can go places. Outrageous that we shouldn't have that. 

 

Just get a RW as well. If it takes another PSR cycle to achieve it, or gambling on youth - so be it. Unfair, but if that's what we need to do. Don't undermine the squad by sacrificing quality in depth. 

 

I'd be gutted if Barnes went. I doubt he will.

If we get Europe for next season I think he’ll stay as he’ll get game time but if we don’t I think he’ll probably look to leave anyway because he won’t get the game time. I like him as a player but he’s not going to sit on the bench forever. 

 

[TRon]

15 hours ago, Rod said:

Why not?  In fact why not have 3 players for the same position?  You are looking at this all wrong.  I know you are going to come back with the PRP carry on but we have not bought Barnes for £35m to sell him just over a year later.  It's not happening.

 

 

Why did we sell Elliott Anderson for effectively £15m then?

[TRon]

14 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Accepting the notion that a club like us ("in our position") shouldn't have strength in depth because of the ridiculous rules which are designed to limit our capabilities. 

 

Having players of Barnes' quality in reserve is a brilliant thing and the sign of a very, very good squad that can go places. Outrageous that we shouldn't have that. 

 

Just get a RW as well. If it takes another PSR cycle to achieve it, or gambling on youth - so be it. Unfair, but if that's what we need to do. Don't undermine the squad by sacrificing quality in depth. 

 

I'd be gutted if Barnes went. I doubt he will.

 

 

If we don't sell players, how do we buy new ones then?

 

 

[The Fountain]

On 31/12/2024 at 13:35, Elliottman said:

I think it would be more of a case of Barnes wanting to go rather than us wanting to sell. Just can’t imagine he’ll want to play second fiddle to Gordon for…. ever?! Pure speculation obviously, might be happy as Larry. 

Teams at the top need to keep squad players happy. Qualifying for Europe will be a huge step in us doing that.

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

 

If we don't sell players, how do we buy new ones then?

 

 

 

If the club's progress hinges on selling Barnes then fine, but I'd hope we could cultivate funds without having to sell incredibly reliable goalscorers. I'm not against trading. 

[STM]

I'm afraid I can't see any scenario where Harvey Barnes wants to stay as second fiddle to Gordon on our bench. 

 

If a club offers him first team footy and offers us, something like, the fee we paid for him, he will leave IMO.

 

The only caveat, is that if we do get CL footy next year, he can be offered more game time because of squad rotation.

 

A player like Barnes shouldn't be sitting on the bench for us, when he could be a key member of another PL squad.

 

BTW, I'm all for having a healthy squad of players but that's why you sign young players with potential or experienced players who are looking for their last rodeo. Barnes is older than Gordon and he's clearly second choice. There's not many sides in the PL that Harvey Barnes wouldn't start for, including some of the "big 6". 

[ExiledGeordie]

11 minutes ago, STM said:

I'm afraid I can't see any scenario where Harvey Barnes wants to stay as second fiddle to Gordon on our bench. 

 

If a club offers him first team footy and offers us, something like, the fee we paid for him, he will leave IMO.

 

The only caveat, is that if we do get CL footy next year, he can be offered more game time because of squad rotation.

 

A player like Barnes shouldn't be sitting on the bench for us, when he could be a key member of another PL squad.

 

BTW, I'm all for having a healthy squad of players but that's why you sign young players with potential or experienced players who are looking for their last rodeo. Barnes is older than Gordon and he's clearly second choice. There's not many sides in the PL that Harvey Barnes wouldn't start for, including some of the "big 6". 

Agree with all of that 👍 I think he’ll be angling for a move in the summer. 

[Gawalls]

15 minutes ago, STM said:

I'm afraid I can't see any scenario where Harvey Barnes wants to stay as second fiddle to Gordon on our bench. 

 

If a club offers him first team footy and offers us, something like, the fee we paid for him, he will leave IMO.

 

The only caveat, is that if we do get CL footy next year, he can be offered more game time because of squad rotation.

 

A player like Barnes shouldn't be sitting on the bench for us, when he could be a key member of another PL squad.

 

BTW, I'm all for having a healthy squad of players but that's why you sign young players with potential or experienced players who are looking for their last rodeo. Barnes is older than Gordon and he's clearly second choice. There's not many sides in the PL that Harvey Barnes wouldn't start for, including some of the "big 6". 

You can't see any scenario he stays?

 

The lad signed for his home club at nine years old then played for them thick and thin until we came knocking.  We're only his second club (not including loans) so he's never proven to be a player to kick a fuss and leave, when he came to us he said the opportuntity was too big to turn down, he's proven he has confidence in his own abilities and can do what's asked of him when needed, it's being also proven that we were short on numbers last season with a few injuries we struglgle, Howe has shown he rates him and he has barely been here five minutes - yet you can't see any scenario where he might want to stay and fight for his place?

 

I personally can

 

 

Edited Friday at 13:47 by Gawalls

[TRon]

36 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

If the club's progress hinges on selling Barnes then fine, but I'd hope we could cultivate funds without having to sell incredibly reliable goalscorers. I'm not against trading. 

 

I'm pretty sure if you asked Howe, he would want to keep all of our players, including Longstaff and Murphy, both of whom are invaluable squad players. There is only one reason we would contemplate selling anyone, and it is PSR. So if a 27 year old Barnes can be sold and replaced with someone who is 22 and has a high ceiling, I think we will have some hard decisions to make.

 

Unfortunately we can't have the best of both worlds any more, and no matter what anyone thinks, the only reason for that is PSR.

[Gawalls]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I'm pretty sure if you asked Howe, he would want to keep all of our players, including Longstaff and Murphy, both of whom are invaluable squad players. There is only one reason we would contemplate selling anyone, and it is PSR. So if a 27 year old Barnes can be sold and replaced with someone who is 22 and has a high ceiling, I think we will have some hard decisions to make.

 

Unfortunately we can't have the best of both worlds any more, and no matter what anyone thinks, the only reason for that is PSR.

At 27 you could argue Barnes is just hitting his peak now - it's all well and good turning players over to bring younger in as they have a higher ceiling but there has to be a balance, in order to maximise your success you need to enjoy some of these players at their peak as well.  There is some hard decisions to be made but i'll be very surprised if selling Barnes happens - for what I can gather there will be no money to be made on him due to what we're srill surely paying off for him with Amortisation and all that.

[TRon]

52 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

At 27 you could argue Barnes is just hitting his peak now - it's all well and good turning players over to bring younger in as they have a higher ceiling but there has to be a balance, in order to maximise your success you need to enjoy some of these players at their peak as well.  There is some hard decisions to be made but i'll be very surprised if selling Barnes happens - for what I can gather there will be no money to be made on him due to what we're srill surely paying off for him with Amortisation and all that.

 

 

Well, even your amortisation calculation shows where the priority lies. Let me be clear: I DON"T want to sell Barnes for exactly the reasons you said. I already said this in an earlier post when I asked why would any fan want to sell a player of his calibre?

 

But why did we have to sell Anderson and Minteh? We can't just pretend this won't come up again, PSR is real. Either we sell and replace with appreciating assets or we get progressively worse season on season. What is the alternative? I hope you aren't going to say sell Almiron for £25m instead.

[SteV]

16 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Well, even your amortisation calculation shows where the priority lies. Let me be clear: I DON"T want to sell Barnes for exactly the reasons you said. I already said this in an earlier post when I asked why would any fan want to sell a player of his calibre?

 

But why did we have to sell Anderson and Minteh? We can't just pretend this won't come up again, PSR is real. Either we sell and replace with appreciating assets or we get progressively worse season on season. What is the alternative? I hope you aren't going to say sell Almiron for £25m instead.

To help cover the ~£140m we’d spent the previous summer.

[STM]

1 hour ago, Gawalls said:

You can't see any scenario he stays?

 

The lad signed for his home club at nine years old then played for them thick and thin until we came knocking.  We're only his second club (not including loans) so he's never proven to be a player to kick a fuss and leave, when he came to us he said the opportuntity was too big to turn down, he's proven he has confidence in his own abilities and can do what's asked of him when needed, it's being also proven that we were short on numbers last season with a few injuries we struglgle, Howe has shown he rates him and he has barely been here five minutes - yet you can't see any scenario where he might want to stay and fight for his place?

 

I personally can

 

 

 

 

I can't see a scenario where he wants to stay, outside of us getting CL footy and being able to give him games.

[Gawalls]

27 minutes ago, STM said:

 

I can't see a scenario where he wants to stay, outside of us getting CL footy and being able to give him games.

all i'm trying ito say is both you and I are making assumptions on his personality and his wants - none of us know what drives him, what would make him want to stay or want to leave.  Look we're currently doing well, having a good month and are 5th in the table yet in the last few hours i've opne to the Isak thread where it's full of people saying "I hope he doesn't leave", the Dubravka thread is full of people saying "oh crap - why are we selling now, what wiill we do", the Almiron thread people saying "he's unsellable, we're stuck with his wages" (I agree with this one for what it's worth) and this thread people saying "He's going to want to leave isn't he? ".  I just find this place gets to me sometimes. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 15:56 by Gawalls

[PauloGeordio]

2 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

all i'm trying ito say is both you and I are making assumptions on his personality and his wants - none of us know what drives him, what would make him want to stay or want to leave.  Look we're currently doing well, having a good month and are 5th in the table yet in the last few hours i've opne to the Isak thread where it's full of people saying "I hope he doesn't leave", the Dubravka thread is full of people saying "oh crap - why are we selling now, what wiill we do", the Almiron thread people saying "he's unsellable, we're stuck with his wages" (I agree with this one for what it's worth) and this thread people saying "He's going to want to leave isn't he? ".  I just find this place gets to me sometimes. 

 

 

 

PTAS

 

post traumatic Ashley syndrome 

[TRon]

48 minutes ago, SteV said:

To help cover the ~£140m we’d spent the previous summer.

 

 

Which again points to how PSR is always there in the background and we have to constantly re-evaluate each player's value year on year. The only time that doesn't become a factor is when we are already at the top or teams will pay us huge money for players we don't want. Neither of which is true at the moment.

[r0cafella]

Not sure what was up with him but he looked like he was running in treacle to me. 

[Newcastle Fan]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

Not sure what was up with him but he looked like he was running in treacle to me. 

 

Hard for him to make much impression in 10/15 minutes each game but next week he should be getting a good run out in the cup.