England's Lewis Hall

[TRon]

14 minutes ago, macphisto said:

I don't want to derail this thread but I don't agree about Targett being a no brainer. Maybe for the majority of fans but I don't think Howe has ever been keen on him. There was a delay and a little uncertainty between his loan ending and us buying him. For me, it felt more like a move to bolster the squad at the time as none of How's preferred targets were available/too expensive. 

 

I was kind of surprised when we made Targett's loan signing permanent, but he was a big part of keeping us up. Not really sure that warranted more than a season loan though given our ambitions. But that's not accounting for him getting crocked so early into the season after signing.

[TRon]

32 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

That’s what he’s saying. I’m not convinced. I think we will be signing him so he has to say positive things. 

 

Have you read the actual quotes? I don't think he would be so descriptive if he wasn't keen on him long term.

[Abacus]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Have you read the actual quotes? I don't think he would be so descriptive if he wasn't keen on him long term.

Even IF he doesn't want him long term but we're still obligated to buy, he's not going to trash his future transfer value either. But that's tinfoil hat territory.

 

Hopefully though, it's as simple as that - he's a long term talent with years to come. He did say that he'd hardly had much of a pre-season before joining, and he doesn't tend to drop in players before he thinks they're ready.

[Upthemags]

2 hours ago, GEFAFWISP said:

If he really is staying then his lack of game time during the dark months of our injury crisis is even more perplexing.

Cannot convince me this isn't strange

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Abacus said:

Even IF he doesn't want him long term but we're still obligated to buy, he's not going to trash his future transfer value either. But that's tinfoil hat territory.

 

Hopefully though, it's as simple as that - he's a long term talent with years to come. He did say that he'd hardly had much of a pre-season before joining, and he doesn't tend to drop in players before he thinks they're ready.

 

I don't think we would have let it get to the stage we were obligated to buy if he really didn't rate him. Unless we were always obligated to buy and the structure of the loan was just a loophole to move the payments down the line 12 months.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

The fee was relatively small, it was a no brainer at the time given where we were. 

£15m. And apparently £100k p/w for 4 years. Expensive deal all things considered.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

Have you read the actual quotes? I don't think he would be so descriptive if he wasn't keen on him long term.

What else is he going to say? They keep asking about him at press conferences.

[jackflap]

On Target giving 15m to a direct rival for a decent PL player who's already hit their ceiling wasn't great business. Villa were seeking to move on from him as he wasn't good enough for the level of ambition for the club. Think we expended so much energy on Botman and the Ekiteke pursuit Target was deemed a safe one to get in the door.

 

Seems clear from Howes comments that the permanent signing of Hall hasn't been triggered. Still makes no sense that Howe sees him as an important player for the future, thought him good enough to start away in a vital CL game against Dortmund yet wasn't even worth bringing off the bench when we were at our bare bones and crying out for a bit of energy in the side. Wondering whether finishing last in the group and the loss of revenue changed the clubs perspective on the deal, tightened our FFP position and the club don't want to commit to signing Hall at the price agreed. I'm sure the club have downgraded their expectation for this season and will be making contingencies for no European football next season, something they may not have been doing before the season began. Howe could be being honest in saying that he does want him here for the long term but this would be something that I could see him having to follow orders on from higher up. Ironically our injury crisis could be the very reason why Hall hasn't been seeing game time.

[Superior Acuña]

4 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

So he's 19 :lol:

 

 

 

The day after his birthday, he's no longer 19.

[The College Dropout]

32 minutes ago, jackflap said:

On Target giving 15m to a direct rival for a decent PL player who's already hit their ceiling wasn't great business. Villa were seeking to move on from him as he wasn't good enough for the level of ambition for the club. Think we expended so much energy on Botman and the Ekiteke pursuit Target was deemed a safe one to get in the door.

 

Seems clear from Howes comments that the permanent signing of Hall hasn't been triggered. Still makes no sense that Howe sees him as an important player for the future, thought him good enough to start away in a vital CL game against Dortmund yet wasn't even worth bringing off the bench when we were at our bare bones and crying out for a bit of energy in the side. Wondering whether finishing last in the group and the loss of revenue changed the clubs perspective on the deal, tightened our FFP position and the club don't want to commit to signing Hall at the price agreed. I'm sure the club have downgraded their expectation for this season and will be making contingencies for no European football next season, something they may not have been doing before the season began. Howe could be being honest in saying that he does want him here for the long term but this would be something that I could see him having to follow orders on from higher up. Ironically our injury crisis could be the very reason why Hall hasn't been seeing game time.

Bolded = selling players

[LiquidAK]

Targett was brilliant for us during his loan. The wages you can argue about, but £15m in the context of that time for a player in a position we needed cover in, English, ahead of or just coming into his prime, was great business. It really was a no brainer. It obviously hasn't worked out due to injury etc., but it was pretty well regarded as a great signing when we made it.

[The Prophet]

From Baldwards article:

 

"The deal was mainly driven by former director of football Dan Ashworth, with Howe happy enough to take a player he believed had the potential to become one of the best left-backs in the country.

 

The reality, though, swiftly dawned on the Newcastle manager. Hall is raw and he was not as advanced in his development as he had initially thought. He lacks both the defensive awareness and the physicality to produce the performances Howe needs for the first team.

 

...

 

The brutal truth is, Hall is not good enough at the moment to be a first-choice left-back in the Premier League and Howe does not feel he could be better deployed in midfield either.

 

But he urged people to recognise what Hall is – a youngster with potential who Newcastle signed for the future, not the present.""

 

[gbandit]

Let’s hope it works out in the long term. It’s obviously not going to happen quickly and he’ll be signing for us so the best we can hope is that he starts to get proper first team football next season and he develops into a great player. It’s a bit of a ridiculous price considering this is where we are but there’s nothing anyone can do about that now 

[SUPERTOON]

I reckon he goes on loan next season, frustrating we are going to spend 35 million on him In the summer though, considering how we can’t spend much already due to ffp.

[SteV]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I reckon he goes on loan next season, frustrating we are going to spend 35 million on him In the summer though, considering how we can’t spend much already due to ffp.

£28m according to Edwards latest article, but totally take the point you make.

[wormy]

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I reckon he goes on loan next season, frustrating we are going to spend 35 million on him In the summer though, considering how we can’t spend much already due to ffp.

 

Think about the loan fee we'll recoup though! 

[The College Dropout]

28 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

From Baldwards article:

 

"The deal was mainly driven by former director of football Dan Ashworth, with Howe happy enough to take a player he believed had the potential to become one of the best left-backs in the country.

 

The reality, though, swiftly dawned on the Newcastle manager. Hall is raw and he was not as advanced in his development as he had initially thought. He lacks both the defensive awareness and the physicality to produce the performances Howe needs for the first team.

 

...

 

The brutal truth is, Hall is not good enough at the moment to be a first-choice left-back in the Premier League and Howe does not feel he could be better deployed in midfield either.

 

But he urged people to recognise what Hall is – a youngster with potential who Newcastle signed for the future, not the present.""

 

I think i've said a lot of this pretty much verbatim.

 

To me... that's been the most logical position.

 

In those 2 starts both his defensive awareness and physicality didn't look up to scratch.

[Terraloon]

Chelsea supporter here again.

 

Its worth noting that if a player is on loan with an obligation to buy then once those conditions are met for FFP purposes the deal is assumed to be permanent even if the deal has not been concluded. Neither club  I would imagine would really want the deal to be concluded  with a chunk of the 23/24 season remaining in effect a confirmed transfer on say 29/6/24 will make little difference to Newcastles charge to amortisation but will make a massive difference to Chelsea.

 

The only rumours I ever heard that the conditions around performances weren’t that onerous but there were secondary ones around Newcastles final league position that could mean anything from a top 7 position to remaining in the PL.

 

Lewis when with us was never close to the finished product he was always one with potential so I find it hard to believe anyone would be thinking he would be fully PL ready on day one .

 

Do you know the sad part in all this all of us be we a Chelsea,Newcastle , Everton or whichever club we follow seem so concerned about the balance sheets it’s really sad

[SteV]

6 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

Chelsea supporter here again.

 

Its worth noting that if a player is on loan with an obligation to buy then once those conditions are met for FFP purposes the deal is assumed to be permanent even if the deal has not been concluded. Neither club  I would imagine would really want the deal to be concluded  with a chunk of the 23/24 season remaining in effect a confirmed transfer on say 29/6/24 will make little difference to Newcastles charge to amortisation but will make a massive difference to Chelsea.

 

The only rumours I ever heard that the conditions around performances weren’t that onerous but there were secondary ones around Newcastles final league position that could mean anything from a top 7 position to remaining in the PL.

 

Lewis when with us was never close to the finished product he was always one with potential so I find it hard to believe anyone would be thinking he would be fully PL ready on day one .

 

Do you know the sad part in all this all of us be we a Chelsea,Newcastle , Everton or whichever club we follow seem so concerned about the balance sheets it’s really sad

Yes, I very much doubt incentivising clubs to sell academy produced players was in any way an intended outcome of FFP/PSR.

[TRon]

58 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I reckon he goes on loan next season, frustrating we are going to spend 35 million on him In the summer though, considering how we can’t spend much already due to ffp.

 

That would make it a very poor decision to sign him for such a high fee. It's one thing to pay £8-10m for someone who is barely more than a promising defender, but to pay over £30m at a time where we are restricted by FFP....that's an almighty clanger.

[SUPERTOON]

14 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

That would make it a very poor decision to sign him for such a high fee. It's one thing to pay £8-10m for someone who is barely more than a promising defender, but to pay over £30m at a time where we are restricted by FFP....that's an almighty clanger.

It’s probably already been a mistake considering our ffp position. Obviously he may turn out to be great for years to come, as it stands now I think if the club had the option to cancel the deal, then they would.

[Jaqen]

1 hour ago, Terraloon said:

Chelsea supporter here again.

 

Its worth noting that if a player is on loan with an obligation to buy then once those conditions are met for FFP purposes the deal is assumed to be permanent even if the deal has not been concluded. Neither club  I would imagine would really want the deal to be concluded  with a chunk of the 23/24 season remaining in effect a confirmed transfer on say 29/6/24 will make little difference to Newcastles charge to amortisation but will make a massive difference to Chelsea.

 

The only rumours I ever heard that the conditions around performances weren’t that onerous but there were secondary ones around Newcastles final league position that could mean anything from a top 7 position to remaining in the PL.

 

Lewis when with us was never close to the finished product he was always one with potential so I find it hard to believe anyone would be thinking he would be fully PL ready on day one .

 

Do you know the sad part in all this all of us be we a Chelsea,Newcastle , Everton or whichever club we follow seem so concerned about the balance sheets it’s really sad

 

You've just spent £1b recently 

[nufc123]

38 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

It’s probably already been a mistake considering our ffp position. Obviously he may turn out to be great for years to come, as it stands now I think if the club had the option to cancel the deal, then they would.

I think its true that they see him as a future investment, but its also fair to point out that by the look of it also..I dont want to say mistake, but not panned out in the right way. I know hes young, but we dont pay that fee, and never play him for whatever reason as part of a plan. Something hasnt clicked with this transfer I think its safe to say. Again not pointing at anyone and its different, but with Tonali not playing and this guy, its almost 90m never playing. Its mental.

 

 

Edited March 8 by nufc123

[Terraloon]

27 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

 

You've just spent £1b recently 

Indeed and from what I gather paying for them isn’t an issue it is getting the numbers to comply with a warped regulation 

[80]

7 hours ago, The Prophet said:

“He was always brought in with a long-term view, not as a short-term signing. He is a long-term signing.

 

“We have always believed in him and his quality and we have been working really hard with him on his game. He’s a really talented lad. He’s got a couple of things to continue working on as all the players have. I believe in him. My vision for him is he will be at Newcastle for many years.”

 

“Sometimes, and I know it’s a rare commodity these days, we just need some patience. We just need to wait to develop players. There’s no magic wand, but time and good work on the training pitch. Players develop at different speeds, but we’re delighted with the progress he’s made.

 

“When you look at someone of that age moving away from home — regardless of the fact they’re a footballer — you can’t underestimate the challenges that come with that. He’s handled himself really well and it’s been a season of growth for him although the external view would not necessarily have seen that.

 

“We have seen that internally so it’s been a really powerful, positive year for him. A lot of work has been put into him and I do believe in him long-term.”

 

Long term? Patience? What's this nonsense?

 

 

 

Fair enough Eddie. Not sure why it's taken so long to say something like this because I think the kid could've done with some earlier protection in the media, but fair enough.

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

What else is he going to say? They keep asking about him at press conferences.

Well, as we were saying the other day, before now he's just been dodging those questions, so it is a big change of approach.