Yorkie Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 17 minutes ago, Pata said: That was a much more fair read than I was expecting. Think I have to give some credit for the culture of never giving up that Southgate has created but it could be much easier if he actually had some tactical plan of how to win these games without moments of individual brilliance. He’s just a nicer Pardew to me as harsh as it sounds. I think I've always been fair. My defence of him has always tended to be in response to criticism which has been unjustly harsh, and/or if his achievements have been unfairly downplayed. Recently I've actually considered some of the harsh criticism to be warranted, and have even dabbled myself. Turns out I was talking shit like the rest of us. I do get the 'nicer Pardew' thing, in that we're not set up to take the game to the opposition, and instead rely heavily on staying in it and relying on individual brilliance. That's hideous in a 38 game season but it's not lunacy in a tournament setting imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I mean, apply the same standard of using VAR for pretty much any corner kick situation and you'll find eight more penalties per game. It's nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, midds said: Good point, not sure of the answer tbh. Maybe the fact he stayed down so long that the officials thought he was genuinely hurt came into the equation. Maybe they looked at it enough times to convince themselves that they had to give something ? I'm not saying they definitely got it right either but I can see why they gave it, there's logic behind it. It's definitely harsh but if you'd give it in the centre circle or by the corner flag then you should give it in the box too Aye, I'm certain that Kane being down for so long played a role. Dumfries was dumb too, if he rolls around as long as Kane did they would not give it. It shouldn't be like this though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, Beren said: The big difference for me is that he had an unimpeded shot at goal before there was contact, and the contact was virtually nothing. If the shot goes in, they're not bringing it back. So it shouldn't be a foul. Then to have that as an overturnable (not a real word) decision is a bit mad. Not a clear and obvious error to me. I think England deserved the win FWIW. I agree on the whole, it was harsh and I'm not suggesting it was a nailed on penalty. But I can see why they've looked at it and given it after a few looks. It's not a slam dunk, Dumfries definitely caught him with the challenge after the shot and in other areas that's a foul 100% of the time. Them's the breaks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) That Watkins shot was England's first attempt at goal on the second half in a tied match. Not a first shot on target, first shot. Edited July 10 by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I think Kane is just not fit at all. Had to come off in that game against Madrid and don't think he's ever really recovered properly. There's no way he's declined this badly in a couple of months surely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Credit to Southgate, who I generally give credit to anyway, but Watkins comes on and I'm thinking 'what happens when it gets to pens? Take him off for Toney?' then Watkins goes and scores an all-timer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, Pata said: Aye, I'm certain that Kane being down for so long played a role. Dumfries was dumb too, if he rolls around as long as Kane did they would not give it. It shouldn't be like this though. I totally agree tbh. Kane knew he'd been caught and milked it so they had a chance to look at it a few times, he knows exactly what he's doing, he knows how this shit works. This seems to be the game now unfortunately Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 took over 30 years but Koeman finally got karma'd, that defeat was really hard to take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (stolen from elsewhere) Oh England recovered Ollie Watkins to get past Holland Oh Southgate and Kane Don't be breaking my heart I'm so in love with you Bell-ing-ham and Mainoo Give the ball to Phil Foden, He makes defenders work so hard That you gimme no That you gimme no That you gimme no That you gimme no Soooooul, I hear you calllllliiiiing Oh Southgate pleeeeeease Give a little respect, toooooo meeeeeee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 @Yorkie knas best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 12 minutes ago, El Prontonise said: Kane's been superb for England but he also a diving cunt and you can go through my posts on here about me saying that for years. Ok mate, I've never found him particularly offensive like some, each to their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, Holloway said: Ok mate, I've never found him particularly offensive like some, each to their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 5 minutes ago, midds said: I totally agree tbh. Kane knew he'd been caught and milked it so they had a chance to look at it a few times, he knows exactly what he's doing, he knows how this shit works. This seems to be the game now unfortunately Yeah. I think it's the double standards when we all complain of foreigners doing it when we are probably the worse at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 It was a soft pen, but anywhere else on the pitch its a foul and we certainly played well enough in that first half to at least go in level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 minute ago, Disco said: I was about to post his name. Short memories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, El Prontonise said: Yeah. I think it's the double standards when we all complain of foreigners doing it when we are probably the worse at it. You know what, I don't care, I'm absolutely sick of England winning the wooden spoon fair play award every tournament and nothing more, screw it! If you can't beat them l, join them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, Disco said: Well I suppose if you go looking for it, but you find every fucker offensive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammc414 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 16 minutes ago, LiquidAK said: I'm not trying to be a complete prick here (honest ), but does that count as a big team that we've beaten under Southgate? For me it does, the Dutch are one of the big boys and we've outplayed them there. I feel like if we don't win on Sunday the chat will revert to "well it wasn't a very good Dutch team" much like it did with Germany in the last euros, but for me it should absolutely count as a heavy hitter we've just taken down in a knockout match For me it does too, based on the fact that if we didn't win tonight the narrative would be 'England lost to the first good team they played'. How do you quantify a good international team? I'd say there's the aristocracy, ones who for generations have consistently won trophies, gone deep in tournaments and have produced elite players: Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Spain The middle class, capable of winning the odd tournament here and there providing a lot of other factors fall in their favour or at least impressing at tournaments. Usually profit from having a golden generation as opposed to a consistent conveyor belt of talent: England, Netherlands, Portugal, Uruguay, Croatia, Belgium Totally subjective of course and I appreciate the 'international big gun' argument is just as tedious as the 'big club' debate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 25 minutes ago, midds said: How many times have we all seen a defender, normally at full back, clearing a ball and the onrushing attacker sticks out a foot to try and block it and the full back clears it and follows through to connect with the attackers foot. Ref gives a foul every time and no-one blinks an eye. It's not deliberate but the contact after the kick is enough for a foul. It's staggeringly similar to what happened in the box but it was a shot not a clearance. It's harsh because it has resulted in a goal rather than a free-kick near the touchline but I can see why they've given it. It's disproportionate in the fact it's lead to a goal but recreate that in other areas of the pitch and a foul gets given 99 times out of 100. Straight leg, leads with the studs is why I assume they gave it. For me, it’s never a pen as he’s not trying to infringe the player but do I care? Do I fuck. Hopefully the cunt had a few quid on it n all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 10 minutes ago, Pilko said: (stolen from elsewhere) Oh England recovered Ollie Watkins to get past Holland Oh Southgate and Kane Don't be breaking my heart I'm so in love with you Bell-ing-ham and Mainoo Give the ball to Phil Foden, He makes defenders work so hard That you gimme no That you gimme no That you gimme no That you gimme no Soooooul, I hear you calllllliiiiing Oh Southgate pleeeeeease Give a little respect, toooooo meeeeeee This is the most Spanish I've ever been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 minute ago, Holloway said: Well I suppose if you go looking for it, but you find every fucker offensive Am I petty man? Yes, yes I am. Do I go looking for it? Also yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, Mike said: This is the most Spanish I've ever been. Selling off Guam like it’s a piece of old tat. Sad to see from King Don I’s boys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 We're the worst team in North America. All I have left is hate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, Disco said: Straight leg, leads with the studs is why I assume they gave it. For me, it’s never a pen as he’s not trying to infringe the player but do I care? Do I fuck. Hopefully the cunt had a few quid on it n all. He hung his leg up there to block it which is what any defender would have done, it's instinct. Unfortunately for him Kane's follow through has caught his foot accidentally. Nothing Dumfries has done wrong in that situation but once he goes down and they look at it a few times then i'm not surprised it gets referred. It's a bit shit and very harsh but it's also a foul elsewhere on the park where it doesn't really matter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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