Newcastle United 0-2 West Ham United (25/11/24)

[Kid Icarus]

25 minutes ago, Smal said:

 

we have created 0.54 xG per 90 for Isak this season vs 0.81 last season. That's a huge drop off. 

 

Do you mean Isak's xG is lower, or that there's a specific 'created for...' metric? Just that xG on its own doesn't really cover how chances come about.

 

 

We've had 3 matches now where we've massively underperformed our xG. As I've said Isak can excuse himself because he has hit some form, but Gordon’s has been shocking and both of their decision making hasn't been great either. Harvey Barnes, the player who seems to get the most flack, is the only one really upholding his end of the bargain as an impact sub.

[Big River]

Bowen was a different class. it'd be nice having someone like him in our team.

 

fkn Murphy man

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Shak said:

Surely it's natural for people to look for problems that we can address, though?

 

I'm not sure what you can do other than hope Isak starts putting them away. There's no other option to take his place, realistically.

 

Definite argument to be made that Barnes could start ahead of Gordon given how wasteful the latter has been in front of goal this season.

100%, it's natural to examine everything and that's what the forum's for. It just feels a bit can't see the wood for the trees to really get down to every possible problem we might have but kind of skip what to me seems to be the most glaring problem we have.

 

As great as he's still been, Isak's had 4 or 5 "I cannot believe he's missed that" moments this season and that sentence has basically defined Gordon’s.

 

I get that you can't over rely on players, but all of your front 3 having the same issue and Barnes seemingly only being useful from the bench is a real problem that needs addressing before even thinking about anything else imo.

 

I think we've seen how when we do put chances away all of our other perceived issues melt away.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Kid Icarus

[TRon]

12 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

Yeah I thought they were fucking awful. Though Wan Bisaka’s finish was class. And Bowen is a lovely player to watch 

 

I missed the first half in fairness, but West Ham didn't look awful in the second. They were trying to pass their way through us with some aggressive intent, reminded me a bit of Fulham. Bowen was definitely causing us some problems, and as soon as I saw Soucek in the line up I was nervous he'd score. One of those pain in the arse players a bit like Antonio.

[Sempiternal]

Just now, TRon said:

 

I missed the first half in fairness, but West Ham didn't look awful in the second. They were trying to pass their way through us with some aggressive intent, reminded me a bit of Fulham. Bowen was definitely causing us some problems, and as soon as I saw Soucek in the line up I was nervous he'd score. One of those pain in the arse players a bit like Antonio.

It’s obvious to say but the first goal really killed us. They just had something to hang onto. I thought we were bad second half rather than anything they did, but agree Bowen is great. 

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

Isak should have scored the left footed chance, granted. Gordon missed a snap shot that fell to him because a West Ham player decided to put it on a plate for him. Still should be scoring, but his finishing has been crap all season. 
 

We had 2 shots on target all night and outside of that and some decent early runs from Isak. We were wasteful and didn’t create decent chances. We’ve basically created one really good chance all night. The Isak half volley.  
 

We always look like that in the final third. All a bit slow and clueless. Probably why people are complaining as it isn’t like Fabianski has had a MOTM performance or we were regularly creating. It was the Brighton game all over again. Chances to score. But overall a big lack of quality in and around the box. 

 

2 shots on target all night is the point, we can't finish and aren't making the right decisions. Maybe I just see it differently but in those moments the creation/pressing stage is complete and it's about decision making and finishing.

 

Isak half volley, Gordon straight at the 'keeper/skied it/skewed wide, Willock missing from the edge of the area, even Hall in the 2nd half. I agree that it was Brighton allover again, we can't keep being wasteful, expect the chances to keep coming and rely on the opposition not taking their own chances.

[Lush Vlad]

I thought Bowen was a passenger first half. Totally different 2nd half. Even more so after we went 4-4-2. 

[joeyt]

I thought Soler and Paqueta just completely ran the midfield second half

[Smal]

yeah, as soon as we went to a midfield 2 of Tonali and Bruno without the use of his hip it was over. They are visibly a very bad team with poor players and coaching but they still had all the control.

 

Was proper embarrassing and enraging to watch in equal measure

[Lush Vlad]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

2 shots on target all night is the point, we can't finish and aren't making the right decisions. Maybe I just see it differently but in those moments the creation/pressing stage is complete and it's about decision making and finishing.

 

Isak half volley, Gordon straight at the 'keeper/skied it/skewed wide, Willock missing from the edge of the area, even Hall in the 2nd half. I agree that it was Brighton allover again, we can't keep being wasteful, expect the chances to keep coming and rely on the opposition not taking their own chances.

But I feel it is a bit of both here. We are not regularly creating enough good chances IMO. Both games mentioned, Gordon and Isak should score, I agree. But time and again we get in good areas and are so wasteful. The passing and creativity around the edge of the box is so often lacking. We’re really static and don’t have that player to unlock defences. The skied chances and the Willock chance you reference are not really ones you expect to see go in I don’t think. They happen at both ends of the pitch every week. That feels like you’re now just listing shots that we’ve had to strengthen your argument. 
 

I get that it is fine margins and games are tight at the top level. But our gameplan is too dependent on your last point. We are too reliant on nicking a goal from somewhere and winning by the odd goal on the basis the opposition miss their chances. We rarely score early goals this season and all. Which really nullifies our gameplan. Especially if we concede first like

last night.
 

Bar Forest, Wolves and Bournemouth. We have also finished a lot of games tamely after running out of ideas. Weirdly those 3 were away games. 

 

We don’t create enough decent quality chances in games is the point I was originally making. Hence why our scoring record is so poor. I don’t think it is just purely down to us pinpointing say 2-3 good chances a week. Other teams fans would say the same every week, I’m sure. They’re not all going to go in and I don’t think I come away from games thinking we’ve been robbed or should have scored a lot more (less than 0 would be a good start)  

[alexf]

Willock and Longstaff were anonymous first half. But the decision to bring Barnes on, move Joelinton back into a midfield 3 that has been proven not to work and then moving Gordon into number 10 all massively back fired. 

 

We score first then we win comfortably I think but as soon as they got that soft goal I feared the worst. However 2nd half was a car crash and that was probably on Howe. None of his changes worked. 

[TRon]

8 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

But I feel it is a bit of both here. We are not regularly creating enough good chances IMO. Both games mentioned, Gordon and Isak should score, I agree. But time and again we get in good areas and are so wasteful. The passing and creativity around the edge of the box is so often lacking. We’re really static and don’t have that player to unlock defences. The skied chances and the Willock chance you reference are not really ones you expect to see go in I don’t think. They happen at both ends of the pitch every week. That feels like you’re now just listing shots that we’ve had to strengthen your argument. 
 

I get that it is fine margins and games are tight at the top level. But our gameplan is too dependent on your last point. We are too reliant on nicking a goal from somewhere and winning by the odd goal on the basis the opposition miss their chances. We rarely score early goals this season and all. Which really nullifies our gameplan. Especially if we concede first like

last night.
 

Bar Forest, Wolves and Bournemouth. We have also finished a lot of games tamely after running out of ideas. Weirdly those 3 were away games. 

 

We don’t create enough decent quality chances in games is the point I was originally making. Hence why our scoring record is so poor. I don’t think it is just purely down to us pinpointing say 2-3 good chances a week. Other teams fans would say the same every week, I’m sure. They’re not all going to go in and I don’t think I come away from games thinking we’ve been robbed or should have scored a lot more (less than 0 would be a good start)  

 

The co commentators mentioned our poor quality of delivery as well. I realise that they aren't always good judges of a game but it's been pretty apparent anyway. Our football is not great this season. In our CL qualifying season we were playing consistently better and more impressive football, and that was with a less expensive squad.

[BlueStar]

Apparently there were two West Ham podcasters/influencers/YouTubers/wankers whatever they're called filming for their channel at the front of the Leazes stand, giving it large (in exaggerated influencer style) after their goals and then turning around to glower at people for ruining their shots when they kept getting pinged on the back of the head with the rubber bands from the ISAK display flags or called names.  Not sure if anyone's seen anything about that or knows what channel it was, I'm sure it'll be very selectively edited though to make them look less wet.

[Cf]

Overall whilst we can't really argue with the result we could have easily got something from that game. I don't think it was an end of the world performance though the second half was a bit alarming. 

 

Thoughts on some players:

 

Kelly: One to forget and whilst ok in parts makes me look forward to getting Burn back.

 

Hall: Superb. He's basically first name on the team sheet at the moment. 

 

Livramento: I really like him but when he gets forward I can't help but wish he was Trippier instead. Really needs to work on that side of his game. 

 

Longstaff: Obviously brings something to the team but a clear drop in quality compared to the players around him. 

 

Gordon: Performed above par last season and below par this season so the drop is quite noticeable. Needs to sort himself out. Having Murphy on instead at the end doesn't reflect well on him. 

[KennyUtd]

We don't get anywhere near enough goals from midfield either. Bruno never looks a goal threat anymore, at least not as much as when he first arrived. Can't tell with Tonali because he doesn't play enough. The odd goal from Joelinton I suppose. Whereas Longstaff...don't need to say anymore. It's these times when your forwards are struggling that you hope midfield steps up. 

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

So disappointed thinking back on last night, it was made for us to go and put on a show and feels like a game we would usually steamroll at home, feel good factor back a bit after winning three on the bounce, night game at home, wor flags putting on another cracking display, started the game on the front foot....then that, very unlike Howes Newcastle, I just worry we've been found out and are on a slow decline. The inconsistency of last season is bleeding into performances and a distinct lack of goal threat and cutting edge.

 

A couple of very good signings needed in January and Howe needs to start getting it right with the system and personnel.

[Pablo123]

35 minutes ago, Cf said:

Overall whilst we can't really argue with the result we could have easily got something from that game. I don't think it was an end of the world performance though the second half was a bit alarming. 

 

Thoughts on some players:

 

Kelly: One to forget and whilst ok in parts makes me look forward to getting Burn back.

 

Hall: Superb. He's basically first name on the team sheet at the moment. 

 

Livramento: I really like him but when he gets forward I can't help but wish he was Trippier instead. Really needs to work on that side of his game. 

 

Longstaff: Obviously brings something to the team but a clear drop in quality compared to the players around him. 

 

Gordon: Performed above par last season and below par this season so the drop is quite noticeable. Needs to sort himself out. Having Murphy on instead at the end doesn't reflect well on him. 

Completely agree, especially with Livramento - as much as I like him, he just doesn't offer what Trippier does in an attacking sense. We desperately miss his creativity 

[Kid Icarus]

Longstaff scored more last season than any of our other midfielders, despite having a really poor season. 

 

A bit of Longstaff blindness maybe? Scoring goals is one of the things he's actually shown himself to be very capable of under Howe.

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Longstaff scored more last season than any of our other midfielders, despite having a really poor season. 

 

A bit of Longstaff blindness maybe? Scoring goals is one of the things he's actually shown himself to be very capable of under Howe.

 

He gets into goal scoring positions regularly. At this point given no one else other than Isak looks likely to score he should in theory be one of the first names on the team sheet.

[nufcjmc]

3 minutes ago, Tiotes Witch Doctor said:

So disappointed thinking back on last night, it was made for us to go and put on a show and feels like a game we would usually steamroll at home, feel good factor back a bit after winning three on the bounce, night game at home, wor flags putting on another cracking display, started the game on the front foot....then that, very unlike Howes Newcastle, I just worry we've been found out and are on a slow decline. The inconsistency of last season is bleeding into performances and a distinct lack of goal threat and cutting edge.

 

A couple of very good signings needed in January and Howe needs to start getting it right with the system and personnel.

 unfortunately the press are already doing the line of PSR tight, sell to buy etc etc so not expecting the saviour to come from the transfer market despite glaring issues with Schar not having a stella season and a need for a proper right wing. While also new signings can offer the team a boost part of the issues is lack of form from our top players and Howe not having a settled first 11. He can go on and on about competition for places having  lots to pick from in terms of midfield and front 3 combo's  seems to be getting away from Howe. Adding in more players short term may be a further headache as we try and accommodate Barnes/big Joe/ Tonali in the side. 

 

The team that played last night at home we can all say should have been strong enough to win yes we have some sub par players in our squad but our squad currently only has Botman as a first 11 starter missing to pick from based on what the team can put out, against a side in poor form and yet for periods I couldn't see the quality players in the side from the dross. 

 

felt very deflated after yesterdays performance. 

[TRon]

9 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

 unfortunately the press are already doing the line of PSR tight, sell to buy etc etc so not expecting the saviour to come from the transfer market despite glaring issues with Schar not having a stella season and a need for a proper right wing. While also new signings can offer the team a boost part of the issues is lack of form from our top players and Howe not having a settled first 11. He can go on and on about competition for places having  lots to pick from in terms of midfield and front 3 combo's  seems to be getting away from Howe. Adding in more players short term may be a further headache as we try and accommodate Barnes/big Joe/ Tonali in the side. 

 

The team that played last night at home we can all say should have been strong enough to win yes we have some sub par players in our squad but our squad currently only has Botman as a first 11 starter missing to pick from based on what the team can put out, against a side in poor form and yet for periods I couldn't see the quality players in the side from the dross. 

 

felt very deflated after yesterdays performance. 

 

 

Schar is a cult hero at Newcastle, but he's had a very average season so far. He really does need a big physical presence next to him like Botman or Burn to function.

[Ginola14]

was Isak's offside goal proven to be correct decision?

 

and was any official reason given by VAR for not suggesting the rugby tackle on Wilson should've been a penalty?

 

overall very frustrating result, felt like we needed that early goal to kick on 

 

confidence is such a fragile thing in football and the second killed us 

 

think our biggest issue this season has been Isak and Gordon missing too many chances 

 

was never expecting it to be an easy game as Wham, although poor this season, have a lot of quality, and the league this season is incredible tight 

 

surprised to see so many fans leaving early, did they forget we staged a late comeback to be Wham last season after being 1-3 down? 

 

I know it never looked likely after we lost our shape second half but still disappointing 

 

 

[JEToon]

Liverpool are likely going to run away with the league and I wouldn’t class their midfield as a massive goal threat, or expect them to become that if for instance Salah was to go off form, by the end of the season I expect the goal return of their midfield group and ours to be pretty similar

 

We have midfielders there to control games, that part of the season has actually been “OK” in bits.

 

The trend of the season is it is laced with the players paid the big bucks to turn key moments in our way, not doing that, our work inside the box has been terrible this season.

[Dr.Spaceman]

18 minutes ago, Ginola14 said:

was Isak's offside goal proven to be correct decision?

 

and was any official reason given by VAR for not suggesting the rugby tackle on Wilson should've been a penalty?

 

overall very frustrating result, felt like we needed that early goal to kick on 

 

confidence is such a fragile thing in football and the second killed us 

 

think our biggest issue this season has been Isak and Gordon missing too many chances 

 

was never expecting it to be an easy game as Wham, although poor this season, have a lot of quality, and the league this season is incredible tight 

 

surprised to see so many fans leaving early, did they forget we staged a late comeback to be Wham last season after being 1-3 down? 

 

I know it never looked likely after we lost our shape second half but still disappointing 

 

 

 

Yeah, he was well offside.