If not Howe, then who?

[Robster]

9 hours ago, TRon said:

Just to answer the question, not sure if we are actually ready to move Howe next season, but Glasner might be a sensible option. Not dead exciting, but he seems intelligent, and won Palace a trophy. 

I hope that the NUFC owners don't think like this. Given we've had two recent CL campaigns and have also won a cup, what suggests he could take us to the next level?

[Infinitely Content]

8 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Fair, I'm just taking for granted they'll win the EL.

Beating the mighty Bologna and Lille along the way. Our cup win is a more impressive achievement than an EL these days, although what I like a lot about Emery is his ability to manage the midweek games in Europe. I think he's superb and probably the second best manager in the league.

Villa fans have levelled the same criticisms at him as our fans have with Howe though, that being a diminishing quality of football each season.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Infinitely Content

[Drewboy74]

9 minutes ago, vexred said:

 

Emery is about to win the Europa 

Hasn't yet though

[huss9]

2 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Hasn't Emery done with Villa what Howe has done with us though?

but he's still doing it.

[Kid Icarus]

Villa are running exactly a season behind our post-takeover schedule, it's uncanny.

[GlamourBoys88]

Emery’s about to win the Europa 🤷‍♂️and qualify for the champions league despite a heavy schedule. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by GlamourBoys88

[Kid Icarus]

Is it still a heavy schedule if every match is a breeze? If you went out of both domestic cups straight away?

 

They could go to the final and they'll still have played less games than us, despite us being out of every cup competition over a month ago.

 

The demands of the Champions League and Europa league are very different, Villa struggled massively in the league the last time they were in the Champions League, needing to bring in a handful of loans in January in order to go on a run at the end of the season.

[AngelofTheFourth]

12 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Hasn't Emery done with Villa what Howe has done with us though?

 

No as emery has had 3 turning to 4 consecutive seasons in Europe. Howe has been Yo-yoing in and out. That's the biggest difference and why i think it's unfair comparing as Howes best seasons have been outside of Europe 

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

 

No as emery has had 3 turning to 4 consecutive seasons in Europe. Howe has been Yo-yoing in and out. That's the biggest difference and why i think it's unfair comparing as Howes best seasons have been outside of Europe 

 

Villa's 7th place finish that got them conference league is the same 7th place finish that got us no Europe at all. Emery came in the season after Howe came in and their seasons have been very similar until now, this year for Villa is basically our 24/25. 

 

[TRon]

12 hours ago, Robster said:

I hope that the NUFC owners don't think like this. Given we've had two recent CL campaigns and have also won a cup, what suggests he could take us to the next level?

 

Don't get me wrong, he wouldn't be my favoured choice, I would prefer Fabregas or Iraola, but realistically I think those guys will get poached by the current elite clubs. 

 

When I suggested Glasner as a sensible option it's just that. He's won a couple of trophies, seems intelligent and ambitious. That's it. 

[wiseman]

Glasner is a good coach, and while I'd not be disappointed by him I'd also not see him as an improvement on Howe. While the fresh face and new ideas may help to clear complacency in the short term from players i dont see him as a move to elevate us to consistent european competition every season.

 

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

 

No as emery has had 3 turning to 4 consecutive seasons in Europe. Howe has been Yo-yoing in and out. That's the biggest difference and why i think it's unfair comparing as Howes best seasons have been outside of Europe 

 

To be fair, it was an aberration we didn't qualify for Europe after finishing 7th. Villa finished 7th and qualified for Europe, so it's a harsh stick to beat us with.

 

Until this season we were both very like for like in terms of league finishes.

[Holloway]

given our relatively new CEO and DOF and the absent nature of our ownership, what is the selection process of a new manager going to look like beyond 'get Emery'

[AngelofTheFourth]

3 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Villa's 7th place finish that got them conference league is the same 7th place finish that got us no Europe at all. Emery came in the season after Howe came in and their seasons have been very similar until now, this year for Villa is basically our 24/25. 

 

 

Thats just an unfair comparison though. the season they finished 7th Emery only came in November in GW 14. Since then villa has no full season outside of Europe to even properly compare with. I don't understand how they are doing the same thing as us when they are consistenly in Europe and we aren't. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by AngelofTheFourth

[andycap]

15 hours ago, Robster said:

I hope that the NUFC owners don't think like this. Given we've had two recent CL campaigns and have also won a cup, what suggests he could take us to the next level?

We need new ideas I think he'd do great. He's won the FA Cup aswell so don't forget that. 

[andycap]

Probably be hopkinson reuben Al rumayyan and our dof on the manager shortlist team. 

So plenty of ideas. 

[Kid Icarus]

29 minutes ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

 

Thats just an unfair comparison though. the season they finished 7th Emery only came in November in GW 14. Since then villa has no full season outside of Europe to even properly compare with. I don't understand how they are doing the same thing as us when they are consistenly in Europe and we aren't. 

At present they've finished in a European place the same amount of times as us and are due to finish this season +1 on that front. That's not them being consistent and us yo-yoing, there's very little difference unless you want to count the year 7th didn't get us into Europe because of Man United winning the FA Cup as a failure on our part, but the year they got 7th and got into the Conference as a success on theirs', which obviously makes no sense.

 

Howe also came in in November the previous year and got us from 20th to 11th, Emery came in and got them from 16th to 7th. The exact same amount of positions jumped and 43 points vs 46 points gained - again very similar. 

 

Their positions have been 7th, 4th, 6th, probably 4th or 5th and maybe a cup -  starting from a higher position and with a squad that already had the likes of Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Mings, Kamara, McGinn, Cash in it and with the Grealish money in its back pocket.

 

Comparatively, our positions have been 11th, 4th, 7th, 5th and a cup - starting from a lower position and with a squad that's only survivors are Schär, Murphy, and Joelinton - all of which are now on their way out. Our season ahead of theirs' has obviously been really bad, so it'll be interesting to see what their version (26/27) will be like.

 

None of this is to downplay Emery's achievements either btw, but the extent to which Emery is hailed as this that and the other while Howe's achievements are downplayed or sidelined - all while their achievements are actually really, really similar - is what I find mad. Easy to forget that this time a year ago and in fact at the start of this very successful season that there was a Emery Out section of Villa's support who were picking out his flaws in player selection, the tactics, the subs etc. Things can change really quickly in football like, look at the esteem Howe was held in a year ago. Emery could very well be in Howe's position in a year's time and vice-versa. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Kid Icarus

[Novocastrian]

Villa only missed out on CL last season through goal difference and they also went deep in the CL too.

 

Emery was a fraction away from three continuous CL finishes.
 

That’s extremely impressive. He started from a higher base than Howe as Villa have had solid investment for a good few seasons now but still. He’s done a cracking job.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Novocastrian said:

Villa only missed out on CL last season through goal difference and they also went deep in the CL too.

 

Emery was a fraction away from three continuous CL finishes.
 

That’s extremely impressive. He started from a higher base than Howe as Villa have had solid investment for a good few seasons now but still. He’s done a cracking job.

They missed out to Eddie Howe's Newcastle United, which I think says a lot about who is and isn't getting credit in that scenario. 

 

Emery's done a cracking job. Like I say, it's the disparity between the perception of what Emery's done at Villa vs what Howe's done here that I think is so jarring. 

[Holloway]

Has gobshite Shearer put forward a name yet ? 

[Novocastrian]

4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

They missed out to Eddie Howe's Newcastle United, which I think says a lot about who is and isn't getting credit in that scenario. 

 

Emery's done a cracking job. Like I say, it's the disparity between the perception of what Emery's done at Villa vs what Howe's done here that I think is so jarring. 

Howe and Emery have both done excellent jobs, but to be a whisker away from three CL finishes in a row, meaning you’ve cracked the ‘two games a week pitfall’, puts him ahead of Howe, despite our League Cup in my opinion.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Novocastrian said:

Howe and Emery have both done excellent jobs, but to be a whisker away from three CL finishes in a row, meaning you’ve cracked the ‘two games a week pitfall’, puts him ahead of Howe, despite our League Cup in my opinion.

Fair enough if that's your opinion like. I think you can point to quite a few 'whisker away' moments for us as well - a match away from another League Cup, missing out on the Conference League - for example. I'd say their achievements are nigh on identical in their circumstances, but each to their own

[Novocastrian]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Fair enough if that's your opinion like. I think you can point to quite a few 'whisker away' moments for us as well - a match away from another League Cup, missing out on the Conference League - for example. I'd say their achievements are nigh on identical in their circumstances, but each to their own

I agree, but as someone said upstream. The wheels have seemingly come off for us now, Emery is still in the Top 4 and probably guaranteed another CL finish.

[Kid Icarus]

5 minutes ago, Novocastrian said:

I agree, but as someone said upstream. The wheels have seemingly come off for us now, Emery is still in the Top 4 and probably guaranteed another CL finish.

We're definitely at a transition point like after an awful season like. Well let's see how Villa's 26/27 is, which is their version of our 25/26 - it's really an aside point to their achievements and getting into hypothetical stats etc, but there's a lot of 'this is unsustainable' stuff going on with how Villa play. 

 

The key difference I see with Villa compared to us is their transfer strategy - they're much more high turnover and act decisively in the transfer market if they're having a middling to poor season. Our past few January's have been anything but that. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Kid Icarus

[Chicken Dancer]

I agree their achievements are nigh on mirrored, but last season Villa reached the points tally we're on now in gameweek 26 last season FWIW. The same game we played and beat Spurs away on the 10th Feb. You can say it's because of loan signings in Jan, but we also could have done that this year instead of sitting on our hands and trying more of the same shite every week. That's not necessarily on Howe btw.

 

They did only win 5 of 17 in the middle part of the season, but at least they started and ended well. Also managed an FA Cup semi and CL quarters and finished level on points with us who played one game a week for most of the season, which I keep hearing is why we'll be good again next year.

 

Splitting hairs but as of now, they've shown to be far more capable at managing European campaigns without turning to shit in the league. Emery also has bags of experience managing in Europe compared to Howe so that has to be factored in to why he's able to do it better.

 

 

Edited April 20 by Chicken Dancer