Fulham 2 Newcastle United 1 - Post Match Thread

[M4]

A red card would have been very harsh, given the way Helgusson overreacted to a simple arm accross the waist, flinging himself to the floor.

 

Doesnt stop the fact Bramble had his usual lapse and couldnt control a ball properly laying straight into the path of the opposite striker.

[Wullie]

Good on the referee then..he let of a NUFC player for once. Happens all the time to opposition, them getting let off. So whats your problem with it? I heard Gooch would have got back in time.  I can`t say too much as I havn`t seen the match, Indi stated he had seen it live so I will go with opinion.

 

As for my comment about you, you just seem like an angry little man. We all hate losing , but we never do well at Fulham do we? The result hasn`t shocked me as we have had 3 seasons of this inconsistant madness now, i`ve got used to it. Its just every post you have made is slagging someone off like there has to be blame. Nothing constructive just name calling.  According to you Roeder is a mong and Bramble is a twat aswell as another comment I can`t remember.

 

Good on the ref? Oh well, that makes Bramble a superb defender, he can just give the ball away, pull players down at will and hope to get away with it. Fine. What did you think of Taylor when he pulled down DJ Campbell? Fantastic defending, undone by a cruel ref daring to make the right decision? Or totally stupid?

 

I think Roeder is an idiot, yes, and Bramble is shocking.

 

I suggest you look for my posts about Solano, about Given, about Parker, about Martins, about Milner, about N'Zogbia, about Emre and about a number of our players at other times before saying "all I do is unconstructive name calling".

 

I even said Carr, who I despise, and Bramble played ok against Villa. Just see what you want to see though.

[tmonkey]

Duff 

 

Nowt to say about him as its already been said - although the "hes not match fit" arguements are true, so he does need to be given some breathing space.

[Mick]

The trouble with Bramble now is that he's always expected to make a cock-up, the players probably feel the same way.  He's 90% a good defender but the last 10% is a massive problem and costly, I think he's always going to be a problem unless we had somebody like Woodgate next to him, somebody to pick up the pieces when he drops a clanger.

[Skirge]

We could try Bramble at LB, has enough pace to play as a fullback and lets face it both Carr and Ramage and very poor there.

 

Nobby----Taylor-----Gooch-----Bramble

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Today and the last match have made me realise just how important Emre realy is and how much we realy miss his creativity

When is Emre's case at the FA being heard? I know Emre had until the end of January to respond but now what?

 

Duff 

 

Nowt to say about him as its already been said - although the "hes not match fit" arguements are true, so he does need to be given some breathing space.

Duff should get match fit in the reserves. He can play one half and Luque can play the other.

[Guest tobiazvanderziaz]

We could try Bramble at LB, has enough pace to play as a fullback and lets face it both Carr and Ramage and very poor there.

 

Nobby----Taylor-----Gooch-----Bramble

 

Baba should be rdy for the next game...

[Mick]

We could try Bramble at LB, has enough pace to play as a fullback and lets face it both Carr and Ramage and very poor there.

 

Nobby----Taylor-----Gooch-----Bramble

 

Baba should be rdy for the next game...

 

Excellent.

[tmonkey]

Duff 

 

Nowt to say about him as its already been said - although the "hes not match fit" arguements are true, so he does need to be given some breathing space.

Duff should get match fit in the reserves. He can play one half and Luque can play the other.

 

He should, yes, but then again, because of Roeder's hatred of Luque, and his inability to plug the severe gaps in other areas of the squad, weve got noone else to fill in at left wing. Which means Duff had no choice but to be played.

 

Like Luque, its a shame if the player is going to get stick for the manager's inability to use a player correctly.

[stoli]

Just read the match report on soccernet.com and it reports the Gooch was lucky not to see red for the tug on Helgusson.  Wasn't it Bramble?  Bad press for Gooch.  Many are curious how the yank was going to do in his 1st match.  Poor.

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=199338&cc=5739

[Wullie]

Just read the match report on soccernet.com and it reports the Gooch was lucky not to see red for the tug on Helgusson.  Wasn't it Bramble?  Bad press for Gooch.  Many are curious how the yank was going to do in his 1st match.  Poor.

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=199338&cc=5739

 

Tit. If you're gonna go on about it, at least get the bloody player's name right.

 

EDIT: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=199338&cc=5739

 

Yellow cards: Butt, Bramble, Milner.

 

Hopeless.

[johnnypd]

Just read the match report on soccernet.com and it reports the Gooch was lucky not to see red for the tug on Helgusson.  Wasn't it Bramble?  Bad press for Gooch.  Many are curious how the yank was going to do in his 1st match.  Poor.

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=199338&cc=5739

 

they got it wrong. not as bad as going on about niemi all match when he didnt even play.

[Guest zeta87]

We could try Bramble at LB, has enough pace to play as a fullback and lets face it both Carr and Ramage and very poor there.

 

Nobby----Taylor-----Gooch-----Bramble

 

Baba should be rdy for the next game...

 

Excellent.

 

 

We are now depending on BABAYARO now?! Gosh weve fallen so low huh

[Mick]

We could try Bramble at LB, has enough pace to play as a fullback and lets face it both Carr and Ramage and very poor there.

 

Nobby----Taylor-----Gooch-----Bramble

 

Baba should be rdy for the next game...

 

Excellent.

 

 

We are now depending on BABAYARO now?! Gosh weve fallen so low huh

 

It's a bit like relying on a lottery win to buy next weeks shopping.

[indi]

So we look organised with him in do we?

 

:|

 

If you want to believe that that's what I said, who am I to tell you differently.

 

 

 

Bramble doesn't give anyone confidence, he doesn't always make mistakes but we now expect it and just wait for something to happen, it doesn't always happen but he must have the other players shitting themselves just waiting for it to happen.  You know it’s always just around the corner.

 

The fact is they all make mistakes, each and every one of them: Carr, Bramble, Ramage, Huntington, Babayaro, Edgar, Moore, Solano, and even the golden-child Taylor!! *shock, horror* People can deny it all they like, it's true.

 

And the reason for this? They don't have a fucking clue what they're doing, there is ZERO organisation, NONE. Look at the way we defend corners, look at the way we try and play offside, I've seen free kicks where we've had Taylor in the wall and people like Nobby marking up, for fuck's sake!!

 

I've said it over and over again, but defending is about coaching and organisation, you don't need star players like your Woodgates of this world, just a good coach and a lot of time spent on the training pitch drumming it into the players' thick skulls. Hopefully this is what Pearson is doing, but it'll take a while to get it right, when it is, you'll notice it on the pitch.

 

We've had a poor defence for donkey's years, regardless of who's played there, we could have had a backline of Maldini, Baresi, Moore, and Beckenbauer (I know, I know) and they'd still play like a bunch of idiots. The whole defending thing has never been taken seriously since before Keegan, the whole team needs to know what they're doing and quite simply they don't. Until they do, we'll continue to be shambolic at the back, it's not the fault of individual players, it's down to the coaching. Look at Greece: a team of legendary defenders ...sorry: a team of complete no-marks, but well organised, well coached no-marks, who knew what they were supposed to be doing and did it. We could learn a lot from that, but sadly I doubt we will, it's a hell of a lot easier to pin the blame on Titus, or Ramage, or the nextman, isn't it!!

[Dinho lad]

HE. IS. SHIT.

[Karjala]

Watched the game live on Swedish TV. We were decent in the first half, and unlucky not to score on the Taylor save/Dyer goal line block. Second half we were second best, and Fulham could have scored a lot more...All in all, a poor display. If we play like that, and get get points at places like Fulham, we wont be in the Uefa Cup next season.

 

Duff and Carr are playing in the wrong league, Dyer looked decent, Milner decent in first half, Gooch seemed pretty steady, Oba had a canny game and deserved his goal, nice finish too.

[Yorkie]

So we look organised with him in do we?

 

:|

 

If you want to believe that that's what I said, who am I to tell you differently.

 

 

Didn't say you said that...

 

You said that we would be un-organised if he were to leave.

 

Going by this post, you're claim that we're un-organised WITH him. So what difference does it make whether or not he stays or goes?

 

He's shit.

[Wullie]

indi, you are right when you say our defensive coaching is shocking, our defending of corners has reached a new low this season, but Bramble doesn't just make mistakes like being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he makes fundamental errors that lead to chances - Helguson's today being a prime example. All he had to do was control a simple pass, he couldn't even manage that. He could have the best defensive coach in the world and the best defensive partners in the world - none of that will stop him making errors like today's. That he got away with it shouldn't disguise the fact that it could, and should, have cost us.

 

He hasn't done this once or twice, he's done it consistently throughout his NUFC career - not just situations where you say "could/should have done better" but ones where he essentially gives a goal to the opposition. When he's good, a situation increasingly rare, he can be very good, possibly better than anyone else we have (not that that's saying much) but when you've got a defender who is ALWAYS at huge risk of simply giving the ball to a striker 30 yards from goal, he's a liability.

[Guest s0ftcore]

As for Wullie calling him a useless twat I can`t take that seriously coming from a skinny boy with glasses holding a cat.

 

Referring to the pic which somebody later edited by changing position of cat's head with the skinny boy?

 

Recalling that picture made me chuckle 

 

---

 

Haven't seen the game - will try to watch it once its telecast. Shame about the lost, its not gonna be pretty taking 0 out of a possible 6 if we don't get a result against Liverpool.

 

By the way, how did Parker do? I still think he's better off playing leftback (when Emre and Butt both fit and playing in the middle) but from the match thread he didn't seem to get much good 'feedback'

[Parky]

So we look organised with him in do we?

 

:|

 

If you want to believe that that's what I said, who am I to tell you differently.

 

 

 

Bramble doesn't give anyone confidence, he doesn't always make mistakes but we now expect it and just wait for something to happen, it doesn't always happen but he must have the other players shitting themselves just waiting for it to happen.  You know it?s always just around the corner.

 

The fact is they all make mistakes, each and every one of them: Carr, Bramble, Ramage, Huntington, Babayaro, Edgar, Moore, Solano, and even the golden-child Taylor!! *shock, horror* People can deny it all they like, it's true.

 

And the reason for this? They don't have a fucking clue what they're doing, there is ZERO organisation, NONE. Look at the way we defend corners, look at the way we try and play offside, I've seen free kicks where we've had Taylor in the wall and people like Nobby marking up, for fuck's sake!!

 

I've said it over and over again, but defending is about coaching and organisation, you don't need star players like your Woodgates of this world, just a good coach and a lot of time spent on the training pitch drumming it into the players' thick skulls. Hopefully this is what Pearson is doing, but it'll take a while to get it right, when it is, you'll notice it on the pitch.

 

We've had a poor defence for donkey's years, regardless of who's played there, we could have had a backline of Maldini, Baresi, Moore, and Beckenbauer (I know, I know) and they'd still play like a bunch of idiots. The whole defending thing has never been taken seriously since before Keegan, the whole team needs to know what they're doing and quite simply they don't. Until they do, we'll continue to be shambolic at the back, it's not the fault of individual players, it's down to the coaching. Look at Greece: a team of legendary defenders ...sorry: a team of complete no-marks, but well organised, well coached no-marks, who knew what they were supposed to be doing and did it. We could learn a lot from that, but sadly I doubt we will, it's a hell of a lot easier to pin the blame on Titus, or Ramage, or the nextman, isn't it!!

 

 

Point well made Indi. But one need not waste time looking for a culprit. GR is simply not good enough and never will be. Most of the time he sounds like some East End granny on vallium.

[indi]

indi, you are right when you say our defensive coaching is shocking, our defending of corners has reached a new low this season, but Bramble doesn't just make mistakes like being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he makes fundamental errors that lead to chances - Helguson's today being a prime example. All he had to do was control a simple pass, he couldn't even manage that. He could have the best defensive coach in the world and the best defensive partners in the world - none of that will stop him making errors like today's. That he got away with it shouldn't disguise the fact that it could, and should, have cost us.

 

He hasn't done this once or twice, he's done it consistently throughout his NUFC career - not just situations where you say "could/should have done better" but ones where he essentially gives a goal to the opposition. When he's good, a situation increasingly rare, he can be very good, possibly better than anyone else we have (not that that's saying much) but when you've got a defender who is ALWAYS at huge risk of simply giving the ball to a striker 30 yards from goal, he's a liability.

 

Yeah, he makes mistakes, but so do the rest of them, and that's my point.

 

Let me ask you this: if you've got no idea what you're doing, you're unprepared, disorganised and you're surrounded by people that you know are in the same situation; do you make more or less mistakes than, if you're confident that you know what you're doing, you're organised and you know that so are the other people around you?

 

I make more mistakes in those situations personally.

 

Our complete inability to defend as a team puts pressure on the defenders as individuals, none of them can cope with this pressure and they all make mistakes. The only player that came close to coping was Woodgate and even he made his fair share of cock-ups. Even with Woodgate fit and in the team we still had a poor defence, it doesn't matter how talented you are, if you don't know what to do, you'll fuck up.

 

The reason Bramble has a longer history of fuck-ups than the rest of them is for the simple reason that he's had the dubious pleasure of being in our team for longer. Give it time and the rest of them will catch him up, Taylor and Ramage are already well on their way.

 

Another reason why Titus' mistakes are so noticeable is because when the going gets tough - as it inevitably does for NUFC - he doesn't hide away and think about his personal reputation, unlike some. Taylor for example went totally awol the other day leaving Ramage completely exposed to take all the responsibility and make all the mistakes. He does this a lot, that run he made right up the park; where was he going, what was he doing? Leaving the rest of the defence in the shite, when he inevitably lost the ball, that's what, even he knew it and that's why he scythed down whoever it was. Taylor is a glamour-boy he likes it when it's going well and he likes doing stuff that makes him look good, but when the shit hits the fan and the dirty work needs doing where is he?

 

Now all that may sound harsh and I agree it is, but the point is none of our defenders is perfect and they all make mistakes, but until they are receiving quality coaching it's nigh on impossible to tell whether or not they're any good, or not. If Bramble was playing in an organised, well drilled, experienced defensive unit and making loads of cock-ups whilst everyone around him was playing perfectly, then I'd hold my hands up and say he wasn't good enough. But the fact is, he isn't, and he never has.

[indi]

So we look organised with him in do we?

 

:|

 

If you want to believe that that's what I said, who am I to tell you differently.

 

 

Didn't say you said that...

 

You said that we would be un-organised if he were to leave.

 

Going by this post, you're claim that we're un-organised WITH him. So what difference does it make whether or not he stays or goes?

 

He's shit.

 

None.

 

You're the one who's claiming things will all be rosy without him, I'm saying it won't make any difference, we're disorganised now and we would be then. Am I not explaining this clearly enough or something?

[Wullie]

I also don't think any of our defenders are good enough, but Taylor and Huntington have time on their side yet (Edgar's looked canny, but not played enough to make any sort of comment, and Gooch is exempt), whereas Bramble should be at his peak and should have cut simple mistakes out a long time ago. We'll have to agree to disagree on what causes the mistakes, yes of course being disorganised will lead to more of them, but the kind of things Bramble has a reputation for are little to do with that imo. Do you really believe failing to control a simple pass in dangerous territory today was because of a disorganised defensive unit? Gifting the ball to Crespo, to Kluivert, to Bent, to Tainio, the Henry air-kick, I could go on, I feel he's not good enough, never has been and never will be. That doesn't mean to say that I think the rest of them are any/much better.

 

Why is it you give Bramble such a defence, but don't appear to extend the same courtesy to the likes of Ramage and Taylor?

[Wullie]

NUFC.com: An awful performance at Craven Cottage saw us limp to our first league defeat of the season as Fulham ended up comfortable wiiners.

 

...ok then.