St James' Park

[Jackie Broon]

14 minutes ago, Stifler said:

Except that is building on the listed Leazes Park, and more importantly, one of the main reasons why it’s listed, the bandstand.

If it was that easy, they would have started it by now.

 

From the listing that doesn't seem to be the case, and it seems that only the base of bandstand is original, the rest is a modern replacement. The pavilion seems to be of more significance.

[Stifler]

1 minute ago, Jackie Broon said:

From the listing that doesn't seem to be the case, and it seems that only the base of bandstand is original, the rest is a modern replacement. The pavilion seems to be of more significance.

It was replaced a few years back, like for like after vandals smashed the fuck out of it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

7 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Could build a ferry landing at the arena site, new landing being built on the north side at Shields, few pick up spots on the way up the river, be a very pleasant way to travel for the match.

Always said the Tyne should have a boat service. 

[Jackie Broon]

17 minutes ago, Stifler said:

English heritage do not give a fuck, and will fight you every step of the way. There have been cases where they have taken legal action against property owners who have replaced cast iron guttering with faux cast iron guttering.

 

You absolutely won’t be able to rip the bandstand out, and if you do, you might as well go and fill in the duck pond, and turn every tree in the park into sawdust.

 

It’s an absolute non-starter, and if the reason why for the last 30 years no one has tried it, and one of the reasons why Ashley sold the club for £300m, and not much more.

 

It's Historic England, not English Heritage. Love it when Stiffy get's all Dunning-Kruger about planning.

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Jackie Broon

[Whitley mag]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Always said the Tyne should have a boat service. 

PIF should snap up the chance to build new arena and increase our income, that plan seems to have stalled due to costs, stick a ferry landing there as well and bring the river really to life, renovate the whole quayside along to new stadium that’s a lasting legacy.

[Keegans Export]

The Odeon was listed, until it was left to ruin and then de-listed. Carliol House was listed, now it's a 3m thick wall. 

 

I'd like to think there is an opportunity to develop on some of Leazes Park without having to demolish any of the key structures or fill in the pond (I'm no more a fan of doing that than I am demolishing the buildings on Leazes Terrace) but I personally think it's naive to suggest that if they really want to stick a stadium on there, it's listed status would save it.

[Kimbo]

I’m surprised the Utilita Arena isn’t listed.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Keegans Export said:

The Odeon was listed, until it was left to ruin and then de-listed. Carliol House was listed, now it's a 3m thick wall. 

 

I'd like to think there is an opportunity to develop on some of Leazes Park without having to demolish any of the key structures or fill in the pond (I'm no more a fan of doing that than I am demolishing the buildings on Leazes Terrace) but I personally think it's naive to suggest that if they really want to stick a stadium on there, it's listed status would save it.

The Odeon wasn't delisted was it? I know the fascia was supposed to be saved by the developers who bought it, then one night it """collapsed"""

[Jack27]

15 minutes ago, Stifler said:

It was replaced a few years back, like for like after vandals smashed the fuck out of it.

Could we incorporate the bandstand into the new stadium land somehow? Nice little touch, keep up appearances too

[Keegans Export]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

The Odeon wasn't delisted was it? I know the fascia was supposed to be saved by the developers who bought it, then one night it """collapsed"""

It was definitely de-listed well before but I think the council wanted the facade to be retained. The original designs for East Pilgrim Street included it, back around 2007ish. Then as you say, it...fell down...

[whiteline]

Heavens above, the park is merely grade 2 listed. That doesn’t mean it can’t be changed. As other posters have mentioned nothing is forever. I live next to a swath of land that 4/5 years ago was designated green belt, there is now over 3000 houses on it.

Things change, grade 2 merely means that planning processes will be tighter not impossible. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

14 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

I’m surprised the Utilita Arena isn’t listed.

For demolition maybe. 

[Stifler]

10 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

The Odeon wasn't delisted was it? I know the fascia was supposed to be saved by the developers who bought it, then one night it """collapsed"""

Yeah it was, it was listed primarily because of it’s internal architecture, and that was ripped out without permission.

[Jack27]

I would truly love a Bernabeu level refurb if possible

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Jack27

[et tu brute]

24 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

I would truly love a Bernabeu level refurb if possible

 

 

 

Just can't see it with the cost, limitations and the fact that a mass amount of season ticket holders will be affected, resulting in a decent loss of revenue when we are already up against it with PSR rules. Also I take no notice of what that bald cunt reports

[Pancrate1892]

Sad to say, but a new stadium elsewhere is probably not for us, it's for the next generation who probably couldn't give a fuck about sentiment. Like what most of us probably feel about Heaton junction at chillingham road.

I must admit, I rather sit in the town in a bar and watch the match rather than gan to some shite on the outskirts, but I understand that's not everyone's opinion. 

[Pancrate1892]

53 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

Could we incorporate the bandstand into the new stadium land somehow? Nice little touch, keep up appearances too

Lob it in the gadgies toilets 

[bobbydazzla]

20 minutes ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Sad to say, but a new stadium elsewhere is probably not for us, it's for the next generation who probably couldn't give a fuck about sentiment. Like what most of us probably feel about Heaton junction at chillingham road.

I must admit, I rather sit in the town in a bar and watch the match rather than gan to some shite on the outskirts, but I understand that's not everyone's opinion. 

I lived in Heaton for 15 years and still go round that way most days, but have no lusty feelings as I go past Heaton Junction 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by bobbydazzla

[Jack27]

Watched this again, that option C though

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Jack27

[ponsaelius]

2 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

The Odeon was listed, until it was left to ruin and then de-listed. Carliol House was listed, now it's a 3m thick wall. 

 

I'd like to think there is an opportunity to develop on some of Leazes Park without having to demolish any of the key structures or fill in the pond (I'm no more a fan of doing that than I am demolishing the buildings on Leazes Terrace) but I personally think it's naive to suggest that if they really want to stick a stadium on there, it's listed status would save it.

 

People seem to get transfixed on the bandstand, the steps, the bust etc as if it's only small elements/artifacts that are listed. Just incorporate them, move them etc. Put them behind a post and rail fence like a piece of Hadrian's Wall.

 

In isolation these various elements in the park don't really have significant historic value - many have been replaced/repaired/rebuilt over the years anyway. The steps are just some old stones. It is the whole park that is listed for a reason. Its historical value comes from its contribution to the city as an entire laid out piece of Victorian civic recreation. This comes from the layout, form, function as a collective. The lake, the stone entrances and walls, the hundreds of mature trees throughout etc all contribute to this heritage value.

 

This is why construction to the immediate north of the existing SJP is to me a total non-starter from a heritage point of view - because you'd be building across a huge and significant area of the park.

 

The same point above though is also why a build primarily on Castle Leazes should absolutely be viable - because some changes to the park should not be a total non-starter. It has after all been expanded and altered over the years from its original form. Its value comes not from architectural and built elements being held in stasis like is often the case with a heritage building (which leads to things like facadism, as is being used on Carliol House) but largely its purpose and role for the city. If you can keep most of the historic layout, while extending it, restoring much that is currently decaying, and securing long term future and function for a changing city - this can in my opinion be to an actual heritage benefit.

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by ponsaelius

[LFEE]

2 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Could build a ferry landing at the arena site, new landing being built on the north side at Shields, few pick up spots on the way up the river, be a very pleasant way to travel for the match.

Stealing my ideas from months ago 

 

If big enough I’ve always said the arena site has so many possibilities.

[ponsaelius]

For a different topic but a Tyne river boat isn't anywhere close to commercially viable because most of the riverside on both sides is industry, wasteland or the port. It isn't The Thames. You'd need tens of thousands more people living actually immediately on the river to maybe get it to a stage of being workable. And even then there's east-west metro lines on both sides that are always going to be quicker than a river which undulates north to south. 

 

I'm surprised nothing has ever really started up again as a tourist thing though. There did used to be riverboat tours once upon a time - I distinctly remember going on one for a school trip or something.

[DiddyLevine]

So , if we move would we still call both ends of the ground Leazes end and Gallowgate end ?

Or would it be the Aramco Stand @ Leazes end ? etc ? 

How much moolah could we make by naming 4 stands and also the stadium ? 

ie Aramco Stadium @ St James Park ? 

[stozo]

The problem with anything that has listed status is not that there isn't any way to overcome that - it's that overcoming that is, at best, a multi-year legal battle before you can put in a spade in the ground. I would be stunned if we're genuinely exploring Leazes Park etc. - it'll be an SJP redevelopment or an issue-free new site somewhere that planning permission will be nailed on. 

[Jackie Broon]

3 minutes ago, stozo said:

The problem with anything that has listed status is not that there isn't any way to overcome that - it's that overcoming that is, at best, a multi-year legal battle before you can put in a spade in the ground. I would be stunned if we're genuinely exploring Leazes Park etc. - it'll be an SJP redevelopment or an issue-free new site somewhere that planning permission will be nailed on. 

 

That isn't true at all.