St James' Park

[Heron]

33 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Saw all your quotes Heza and was shitting myself.

Aye, apologies. I've started posting more over the last year or so on here - or certainly since the takeover but only in topics I really care about so to speak. So have been reading a lot of the debate in here. Apologies for the multiple quotes folk - just interesting to read. Very valid points on both sides to be honest. The reality is we're getting a new stadium whether we like it or not

 

 

Edited Saturday at 00:08 by Heron

[Heron]

3 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

I know it sounds like nothing going from being top of the 14 to bottom of the big 7. On paper it’s just standing still. 
 

But the revenue gap is simply enormous at the moment and the fact it doesn’t totally feel like that on the pitch is largely down to Eddie. 

That's fair. I know what you mean. I just think there are other pieces to this puzzle I'd like to see before being so ready to jump ship. World class training facilities, a world class academy, continued investment in the first team, to name a few. But the latter is why we're pushing a new stadium first and that is largely down to the FFP and PSR for me which is currently up in the air.

[Heron]

3 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

I think suggesting that those of us who are leaning towards a move have just been "seduced by smoke and mirrors" is a little bit patronising? 

 

None of us know what might be in terms of what a new stadium would offer, but I do know what currently is and I see a dated stadium with stands that either won't generate an atmosphere (East) or have any noise created leak out into the stratosphere (Leazes/Milburn). I see a hodgepodge of stands that bare no resemblance to the ground that stood any more than 30 years ago so I don't get all misty eyed about playing on the same turf for the past 140+ years. Not one of those stands hasn't either been redeveloped or rebuilt in the past 35 years. 

 

I also see thousands locked out every week and more seats = more chance to get in. That doesn't mean "100k seats for a fiver each!" by the way...

 

Anyway, as you say we all have our opinions and until we see a concrete plan of what they're actually looking to do, we're all just talking about what is or isn't possible. But I would say at least give those who hold a different opinion to you a bit more respect than suggesting we've been poor, ignorant souls lured in by snake oil salesmen.

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for everyone...

 

 

Edited Saturday at 00:28 by Heron

[Rod]

4 minutes ago, Heron said:

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed and would be sure of the benefits, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for anyone...

 

 

 

If I could give a heart, then I would.  ❤ 

[timeEd32]

31 minutes ago, Heron said:

That's fair. I know what you mean. I just think there are other pieces to this puzzle I'd like to see before being so ready to jump ship. World class training facilities, a world class academy, continued investment in the first team, to name a few. But the latter is why we're pushing a new stadium first and that is largely down to the FFP and PSR for me which is currently up in the air.

I definitely thought we’d have shovels in the ground for a new training facility well before making a stadium decision. We’re definitely making strides with the academy but impossible to tell to what extent until another few years pass.

 

If they decide on a new stadium it requires significant trust that they will get a lot of decisions right - the location, the design, the capacity, the atmosphere, pricing, season ticket moves, and the realization of promised revenue gains. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 hours ago, Heron said:

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for everyone...

 

 

 

I’ll speak for me and no-one else (which should be obvious, but isn’t always )

 

There is no-one else on here whose views on SJP and atmosphere I’d take more seriously.  I’ve nothing but admiration for you and your comrades in ‘Wor Flags’ for everything you’ve done and do; trust me, the atmosphere at SJP was abject before the lads and lasses involved with it got involved.  You and your colleagues are what even makes it an argument for me - the blandness of SJP before your fan activism didn’t even make it arguable for me. 

 

Ultimately, I can’t agree with your views re leaving SJP - and my view is that leaving is about more than money.  But I do want to make clear that whatever a gobshite like me writes on here, I’ve nowt but respect for your views.  I do disagree because I think this is what NUFC needs to be everything we all want it to be, but just wanted to be clear.   

[Keegans Export]

7 hours ago, Heron said:

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for everyone...

 

 

That's the point I was trying to make earlier, its a nuanced issue and making broad, sweeping statements (something I am guilty of too) doesn't encourage reasoned discussion. 

 

7 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

...what were we saying about ignorance again?

[Dr.Spaceman]

7 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

 

So.... twice a season?

[bobbydazzla]

8 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

I had a season ticket in the East Stand for one season and the bloke with verbal diarrhoea behind me was one of the best football managers and tacticians the world has ever seen. Far, far better than the likes of Pep Guardiola or Carlo Ancelloti 

 

I moved my ST away from him so never got to find out what happened next in his managerial career, but I’m sure he must have gone on to big things in the world of football 
 

He really was a genius, there can be no doubt about it 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:12 by bobbydazzla

[Dr.Spaceman]

As a current season ticket holder in the middle of the Gallowgate, formerly in the middle of the East Stand for a season and the Gallowgate West corner for Rafa's 3 seasons (ooh, look at me) I can safely say the atmosphere over the last 20 years has largely been a bit of a let down more often than it has been bouncing. It's generally just about north of average imo, but to claim it's one extreme or the other to the point where that forms the basis of your argument for either moving or staying is just daft imo.

 

With regards the stadium move, I just want the option of grabbing a drink, something to eat or going for a piss without having to time it perfectly before I'm queuing for 45 minutes or rubbing shoulders with the folk who sniff shite in the cubicles.

 

A stadium move would also allow us to regroup and create a proper section for those that don't want to sit and tut for 90 minutes.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Oh and the queues outside the ground.... If anyone wants to get in the ground with 10 minutes to go then they should be able to without missing the first few minutes of the game. The queues at the top of the steps opposite the Strawberry are a piss take at times.

[Abacus]

I like the way this debate has been handled by everyone here.

 

SJP means a huge amount to me, it's one of the reasons I came back to Newcastle. Love the place, but if it's time to go, then it's time to go.

[JonBez comesock]

The 5 reasons I am open to a new stadium 

 

1 , it means PIF are truly invested 

 

2 it can massively help with PSR

 

3 it can attract a higher calibre of player , or swing a transfer in our favour once they have visited to look around 

 

4 With the right architect they can build a stadium with fantastic acoustics - which can only help in terms of atmosphere 

 

5, A chance for an extra  10-15k to see newcastle play in the flesh 

 

 

 

 

[TheGuv]

9 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

As a current season ticket holder in the middle of the Gallowgate, formerly in the middle of the East Stand for a season and the Gallowgate West corner for Rafa's 3 seasons (ooh, look at me) I can safely say the atmosphere over the last 20 years has largely been a bit of a let down more often than it has been bouncing. It's generally just about north of average imo, but to claim it's one extreme or the other to the point where that forms the basis of your argument for either moving or staying is just daft imo.

 

With regards the stadium move, I just want the option of grabbing a drink, something to eat or going for a piss without having to time it perfectly before I'm queuing for 45 minutes or rubbing shoulders with the folk who sniff shite in the cubicles.

 

A stadium move would also allow us to regroup and create a proper section for those that don't want to sit and tut for 90 minutes.

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, TheGuv said:

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm convinced they already know what they're after and that our 'wants' are quite far down their list of priorities, if on the list at all. However, they're not daft and they'll not want to alienate us. It's going to be interesting to be honest, I am desperate for some sort of blueprint, mock up or whatever before I'm all in either way.

[TheGuv]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Yeah, I'm convinced they already know what they're after and that our 'wants' are quite far down their list of priorities, if on the list at all. However, they're not daft and they'll not want to alienate us. It's going to be interesting to be honest, I am desperate for some sort of blueprint, mock up or whatever before I'm all in either way.

Of course!

 

However, I’m also talking about the finer details too. One example would be if there is a standing/singing section(s), will there be a % of members tickets also available in there. 
 

It is something I brought up in the safe standing debate (along with opposing corners) which everyone agreed with and then wasn’t implemented. The club just smiled and nodded. Because in truth, they aren’t arsed about things like that.

 

Bearing in mind you’ve got only one chance to get it right and it isn’t just the blueprint, the looks and the acoustics and the physical make up of the ground. 
 

I understand I’m being a Debbie Downer like 

[Heron]

14 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

Yep - same goes for me.

 

They'll already have full stadium plans drawn up and my suspicion based on such events is that the requirements of the traditional football fan will be bottom of the list in favour of caviar, heated seats and a Gucci store

 

Give us (WorFlags) a pulley though and yous can all pay £2k a match...

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:49 by Heron

[Dr.Spaceman]

2 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

Of course!

 

However, I’m also talking about the finer details too. One example would be if there is a standing/singing section(s), will there be a % of members tickets also available in there. 
 

It is something I brought up in the safe standing debate (along with opposing corners) which everyone agreed with and then wasn’t implemented. The club just smiled and nodded. Because in truth, they aren’t arsed about things like that.

 

Bearing in mind you’ve got only one chance to get it right and it isn’t just the blueprint, the looks and the acoustics and the physical make up of the ground. 
 

I understand I’m being a Debbie Downer like 

 

Nah, I'm with you. Moving is a massive gamble with very few guarantees (from our perspective).

 

I am of the opinion that there's two sides to every argument though, there must be a reason why they don't implement these things, they're not a bunch of Mike Ashley's openly laughing at us. Disappointing if when we do move they don't try and implement some fan suggestions but as long as they attempt to explain some of the more sensible ideas then that'll do. Radio silence and they're just leaving themselves open to criticism.

 

It does feel like a bit of a tap-in though, just picking one or two big hitters and saying "hey, look, we listened!"

[Dr.Spaceman]

4 minutes ago, Heron said:

Yep - same goes for me.

 

They'll already have full stadium plans drawn up and my suspicion based on such events is that the requirements of the traditional football fan will be bottom of the list in favour of caviar, heated seats and a Gucci store

 

Give us (WorFlags) a pulley though and yous can all pay £2k a match...

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in.

[Thorpinho]

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, Thorpinho said:

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

 

Yeah, couldn't hear yourself think at times. I do think the demographics of the average fan was vastly different though. You had blokes coming off the back of the 80's, radge fighting and complete neglect from those in charge of the club to all of a sudden we've got one of the best young managers in the game with Andy Cole, Peter Beardsley etc running rings around John Smith from Swindon in the Premier League. Great times. It's no surprise everyone was pumped most games.

[RS]

I’m looking forward to seeing the existing ground evolve. Even if it means years of reduced attendances while it transforms. 
 

History and nostalgia hold a lot for me. Being in a ground where my grandfather and father watched cup winning teams can hopefully be continued by my grandson and onwards. 
 

The loss of the Mayfair and Handyside arcade among others should be a warning of being careful of “progress”. City history being replaced by soulless vacuums of standard flat pack builds. 

[madras]

35 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Yeah, couldn't hear yourself think at times. I do think the demographics of the average fan was vastly different though. You had blokes coming off the back of the 80's, radge fighting and complete neglect from those in charge of the club to all of a sudden we've got one of the best young managers in the game with Andy Cole, Peter Beardsley etc running rings around John Smith from Swindon in the Premier League. Great times. It's no surprise everyone was pumped most games.

That was more the times than acoustics. The acoustics recently were fine against PSG, Arsenal etc.

 

 

[ExiledGeordie]

If it’s in a central location I think I makes sense to be honest but if you’d asked me a year ago I would have said stay at St James. The ridiculous PSR situation is forcing our hand really but equally if the decision was made to revamp St James I wouldn’t complain.

 

That whopper Rory Jennings was on talksport ranting about how it was a disgrace that there was even a discussion of moving from St James. As per talk sport he was probably just creating “discussion” but what he failed to mention was the absurd PSR situation which probably forces this decision. Something his club Chelsea seeks to maintain so that a club like ours can’t push on and challenge the top six.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:48 by ExiledGeordie

[Whitley mag]

10 hours ago, Kanji said:

how could there be any better acoustics? Recall the Owen booing video. Recall PSG at home. 

The stadium is poorly designed for acoustics, yeah it can be loud when the whole ground gets going, but the sound doesn’t travel otherwise due to the design of level 7.