St James' Park

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, Thorpinho said:

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

 

The 36k SJP was far better than the one we currently have. It held the noise in, and added to that our fans were generally more noisy back then as well. For example the Leazes and Gallowgate were about on par with each other for noise, in fact the Leazes was probably better as it was built a year earlier and most of the singers managed to get in there. It's a complete morgue now and as someone who sat there as level 7 was built above it you could feel the life being sucked out of it and eventually, me and many others moved to the Gallowgate (I lasted till 2005/06 before shifting).

 

I've said it before but I've never been a fan of the current SJP. I don't like level 7, I don't like the Leazes End. East stand is well past it's prime. Was in there for the Magic Weekend a couple of years ago and it felt even more cramped, both at my seat and in the concourse than I remembered. The £900 or whatever it costs for a ST in there now is 100% for the view because you don't get anything else.

 

The current design also doesn't lend itself to a good atmosphere. The vast open spaces of L7 loses a lot of the noise as it drifts over the smaller stands. As a comparison I've been lucky enough to be at Ibrox for a big game and you can actually hear and even feel the noise rebounding off all 4 stands as they are all of the same height. Not too dissimilar to big games at the 36k SJP but a bit more intense if truth be told.

 

For me that's the big thing. Atmosphere. A new build allows to to start from scratch. We can have a 20/25k Kop style stand behind one of the goals which is a game changer. At the minute our singing end is 1,500 in the SE Corner which in amongst a 52k crowd is a drop in the ocean.

 

Obviously other benefits as well on the financial side and another big thing is we wouldn't be financially hamstrung by it for a while like Arsenal and Spurs and we wouldn't be paying it off. 

 

Nothing lasts forever and if the option is there, and it's the right option, capacity, location etc, it's a no brainer for me.

 

I'd be sad to leave SJP, but not devastated. It in no way resembles the SJP I was first introduced to back in 1984 so it's just a patch of land to me in all honesty. If we can more to another patch of land a couple of hundred yards up the road then that's not a problem to me.

[Dr Venkman]

15 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

The assertion that we need to move if we're ever going to move the PSR needle. That it's good for people who were previously priced out and are now locked out.

Ok. I agree on refuting the outright assertion that we *need* to move to be competitive. However, I don’t think it’s controversial to assert that the more money coming in, the better the chances of success. The difference between the two positions is quite stark, I think, and it seems disingenuous to argue against the former when it’s clearly nonsense. That was what drew me in to this in the first place.

 

As for the pricing. No argument from me there. It will get more expensive. However, it’s possible it would get equally as expensive without a stadium move. 

[Dr Venkman]

14 hours ago, OpenC said:

 

I have no idea, I haven't really kept up with the owners' motivations, or whether it's actually true that to satisfy PSR you have to have a swiss army knife of a stadium that's busy 24/7.  This is only my perspective  unpopular opinion but if this is the price of being competitive, to turn your club into some sort of all things to all people multiexperience and be more accessible to casual visitors and folk who just want to experience the crack of a football day without being that invested, then fine but I personally am just not that arsed about that sort of future

 

I would be happier if they built the official NUFC Second Home Wongadome somewhere between Morpeth and Seaton Burn and let the women and bairns play there and put on shit bands, go karting, USAball and adult size bouncy castles to keep the punters coming but it seems that you're only allowed to make money by bringing people into your primary playing venue for whatever reason

Fair enough. I don’t understand the motivation for not wanting a stadium that is multi-use. Again, not trying to be clever, but if you’re not going to be involved in the other uses, why would it matter to you that much if it’s bringing in extra revenue for the club?

 

[Dr Venkman]

14 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

I think suggesting that those of us who are leaning towards a move have just been "seduced by smoke and mirrors" is a little bit patronising? 

 

None of us know what might be in terms of what a new stadium would offer, but I do know what currently is and I see a dated stadium with stands that either won't generate an atmosphere (East) or have any noise created leak out into the stratosphere (Leazes/Milburn). I see a hodgepodge of stands that bare no resemblance to the ground that stood any more than 30 years ago so I don't get all misty eyed about playing on the same turf for the past 140+ years. Not one of those stands hasn't either been redeveloped or rebuilt in the past 35 years. 

 

I also see thousands locked out every week and more seats = more chance to get in. That doesn't mean "100k seats for a fiver each!" by the way...

 

Anyway, as you say we all have our opinions and until we see a concrete plan of what they're actually looking to do, we're all just talking about what is or isn't possible. But I would say at least give those who hold a different opinion to you a bit more respect than suggesting we've been poor, ignorant souls lured in by snake oil salesmen.

Agreed.

[bobbydazzla]

45 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

The stadium is poorly designed for acoustics, yeah it can be loud when the whole ground gets going, but the sound doesn’t travel otherwise due to the design of level 7.

I think a decent reference point for the acoustics in the ground and how badly sound travels is whether you can hear the away fans when it’s a noisy away end 

 

And in the Gallowgate they’re barely audible

 

And also the amount of post-match threads in here that talk about how the ground was silent, when Strawberry Corner never stopped singing for the entire game

 

The lopsided design is shite for acoustics

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:48 by bobbydazzla

[OpenC]

12 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

Fair enough. I don’t understand the motivation for not wanting a stadium that is multi-use. Again, not trying to be clever, but if you’re not going to be involved in the other uses, why would it matter to you that much if it’s bringing in extra revenue for the club?

 

 

It only really matters to me that NUFC will not be playing at SJP which is obviously not suited for multi use or it would be getting multi used.  I don't want a new stadium full stop. I would be more comfortable with one which is less than a fanny hockle from where we are now but I just don't see them bulldozing Leazes Park

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:52 by OpenC

[Dr Venkman]

11 hours ago, Heron said:

Why wouldn't Saudis want to build their own absolutely phenomenal stadium?

Indeed. Providing its city centre, I’ll take the absolutely phenomenal stadium, please.
 

[Dr.Spaceman]

3 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

I think a decent reference point for the acoustics in the ground and how badly sound travels is whether you can hear the away fans when it’s a noisy away end 

 

And in the Gallowgate they’re barely audible

 

And also the amount of post-match threads in here that talk about how the ground was silent, when Strawberry Corner never stopped singing for the entire game

 

The lopsided design is shite for acoustics

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just came here to say this. No matter how loud they are any amount of noise from our fans drowns them out. Genuinely got no idea who's away following at SJP is better than others.

[Dr Venkman]

3 hours ago, JonBez comesock said:

The 5 reasons I am open to a new stadium 

 

1 , it means PIF are truly invested 

 

2 it can massively help with PSR

 

3 it can attract a higher calibre of player , or swing a transfer in our favour once they have visited to look around 

 

4 With the right architect they can build a stadium with fantastic acoustics - which can only help in terms of atmosphere 

 

5, A chance for an extra  10-15k to see newcastle play in the flesh 

 

 

re: 3 it’s interesting to see an ex-professional footballer make this point after I made the same point and it was immediately dismissed.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:32 by Dr Venkman

[Kid Icarus]

11 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

Ok. I agree on refuting the outright assertion that we *need* to move to be competitive. However, I don’t think it’s controversial to assert that the more money coming in, the better the chances of success. The difference between the two positions is quite stark, I think, and it seems disingenuous to argue against the former when it’s clearly nonsense. That was what drew me in to this in the first place.

 

As for the pricing. No argument from me there. It will get more expensive. However, it’s possible it would get equally as expensive without a stadium move. 

That's not controversial at all, but that on its own doesn't address the crucial details involved in whether it's a decision worth making.

 

Namely how much the increase in money is in the grand scheme of things, how much it's likely to increase our chances of success on its own, and most importantly, is all of it worth losing SJP for.

 

By my estimation I'd answer: not that much, not that much, and no. 

[Dr Venkman]

4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

That's not controversial at all, but that on its own doesn't address the crucial details involved in whether it's a decision worth making.

 

Namely how much the increase in money is in the grand scheme of things, how much it's likely to increase our chances of success on its own, and most importantly, is all of it worth losing SJP for.

 

By my estimation I'd answer: not that much, not that much, and no. 

To avoid going around in circles I’ll just say thanks for the response. Totally understand where those who are cautious about a move are coming from.

 

Ultimately I think most of this comes down to your final question. Is it worth losing SJP for? IMO, SJP is in a fantastic location, and that’s all I’d be concerned about losing. Providing any new build is city centre, IMO, any loss would be negligible.

 

 

[RS]

I think atmospheric may also be down to the 20,000 or so over 75’s that have season tickets. The demographic of match goers has changed so much over the last 4 decades. 
Mind the Barnes winner in the West Ham 4-3 last year nearly made some of them stand up in the East stand. They definitely gave mild applause. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:09 by RS

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

To avoid going around in circles I’ll just say thanks for the response. Totally understand where those who are cautious about a move are coming from.

 

Ultimately I think most of this comes down to your final question. Is it worth losing SJP for? IMO, SJP is in a fantastic location, and that’s all I’d be concerned about losing. Providing any new build is city centre, IMO, any loss would be negligible.

 

 

Yeah I think that's a good summary of where both camps are.

[Choppy Chop Chop]

11 minutes ago, RS said:

I think atmospheric may also be down to the 20,000 or so over 75’s that have season tickets. The demographic of match goers has changed so much over the last 4 decades. 
Mind the Barnes winner in the West Ham 4-3 last year nearly made some of them stand up in the East stand. They definitely gave mild applause. 

 

 

 

I'm 72 and found it more & more difficult to be vocal as I aged, gave up my season ticket because of how Rafa was treated and the cold in winter, I miss it but I have had my share of ups and mainly downs. I'll be dancing round the living room if we ever win anything  provided I live long enough, I would also love a one off visit to whatever the new stadium is,

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:21 by Choppy Chop Chop

[RS]

1 minute ago, Choppy Chop Chop said:

I'm 72 and found it more & more difficult to be vocal as I aged, gave up my season ticket because of how Rafa was treated and the cold in winter, I miss it but I have had my share of ups and mainly downs. I'll be dancing round the living room if we ever win anything  provided I live long enough, I would also love a one off visit to whatever the new stadium is,

 

 

 

I’m 55 and definitely can’t do the constant chanting I was expert at in the 80’s!

[DiddyLevine]

2 hours ago, Thorpinho said:

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

Can remember as far back as 1974 when the Leazes end was more of a shed . Noise was more but the fans were solidly working class and drunk 😎

Gallowgate bogs - i try to forget 

Fan demographics have changed a bit since then and ground is more lopsided which doesnt help

Build something new but let the poor and the drunks back in 🤓

[Keegans Export]

23 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

To avoid going around in circles I’ll just say thanks for the response. Totally understand where those who are cautious about a move are coming from.

 

Ultimately I think most of this comes down to your final question. Is it worth losing SJP for? IMO, SJP is in a fantastic location, and that’s all I’d be concerned about losing. Providing any new build is city centre, IMO, any loss would be negligible.

 

That's a really succinct way of summarising my opinions too.

 

I'd 100% prefer to stay at SJP exactly as it is now than move more than a mile or so away from the current location. 

 

However, I don't see any real, substantial difference between a considerable redevelopment or rebuilding on the current site versus a new stadium up the road. To use @Heron 's analogy about the house, is it still your house if you knock the whole thing down and rebuild it? Is it still your house if you re-build it in your back garden rather than on the exact same foundations? The answer to that is going to vary from person to person obviously. 

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Keegans Export said:

That's a really succinct way of summarising my opinions too.

 

I'd 100% prefer to stay at SJP exactly as it is now than move more than a mile or so away from the current location. 

 

However, I don't see any real, substantial difference between a considerable redevelopment or rebuilding on the current site versus a new stadium up the road. To use @Heron 's analogy about the house, is it still your house if you knock the whole thing down and rebuild it? Is it still your house if you re-build it in your back garden rather than on the exact same foundations? The answer to that is going to vary from person to person obviously. 

In short, yes and yes - for me.

 

But to use the same analogy, if you were comfortable in your family home that had been passed down generations and had no mortgage left on it and someone (who previously hadn't listened to your ideas of an ideal home) said "I'll build you a better, bigger, newer home" and they didn't explain anything else - I'd be surprised if anyone would be anything other than apprehensive.

[Dr Venkman]

53 minutes ago, OpenC said:

 

fanny hockle

[Keegans Export]

3 minutes ago, Heron said:

In short, yes and yes - for me.

 

But to use the same analogy, if you were comfortable in your family home that had been passed down generations and had no mortgage left on it and someone (who previously hadn't listened to your ideas of an ideal home) said "I'll build you a better, bigger, newer home" and they didn't explain anything else - I'd be surprised if anyone would be anything other than apprehensive.

Absolutely, and it'll be really interesting when (and I'm assuming it's a "when" rather than an "if") we get something more concrete how people's opinions change or otherwise 

[gjohnson]

14 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep.  They’re going to exist in some form or another - UEFA also has similar rules in place.  It is literally a handful of clubs which have been impacted by it, compared to the thousands of professional European clubs who are happy to sign up to the rules.  

I've got no problem with rules as long as they're applied to everyone...not just the non-rich 6.

 

Man U getting covid relief 8 times more than anyone else...Chelsea selling their own stuff to themselves etc...even we must have done some creative accounting to get that Anderson/Greek keeper deal done...who last I heard cost 95m 😉

[huss9]

3 hours ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

As a current season ticket holder in the middle of the Gallowgate, formerly in the middle of the East Stand for a season and the Gallowgate West corner for Rafa's 3 seasons (ooh, look at me) I can safely say the atmosphere over the last 20 years has largely been a bit of a let down more often than it has been bouncing. It's generally just about north of average imo, but to claim it's one extreme or the other to the point where that forms the basis of your argument for either moving or staying is just daft imo.

 

With regards the stadium move, I just want the option of grabbing a drink, something to eat or going for a piss without having to time it perfectly before I'm queuing for 45 minutes or rubbing shoulders with the folk who sniff shite in the cubicles.

 

A stadium move would also allow us to regroup and create a proper section for those that don't want to sit and tut for 90 minutes.

ooooh. a tutting section!

that would be fucking class.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’ll go one week in singing and one week in the abusing Longstaff area.  

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, bobbydazzla said:

I think a decent reference point for the acoustics in the ground and how badly sound travels is whether you can hear the away fans when it’s a noisy away end 

 

And in the Gallowgate they’re barely audible

 

And also the amount of post-match threads in here that talk about how the ground was silent, when Strawberry Corner never stopped singing for the entire game

 

The lopsided design is shite for acoustics

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're in parts of the Strawberry Corner (the back of blocks C and D) you literally can't see or hear the away fans. They may as well not be there. If you're in the Gallowgate you can't really hear the away fans and when you're at that end of the ground you can't really hear the Gallowgate.

 

However if you've ever left the match early when we've been getting battered you can hear the away fans loud and clear as you walk past the old Barker & Stonehoise and down past the Labour Club. 

 

Purely down to the stadium design and the noise escaping from it.

[geordie john]

It's been a very long time since I last posted on here. Time to break my silence.

I'm 72 now and first went to St James's in the '60's. I went pretty much every other week and saw all the Fairs Cup games. 

It was a completely different ground then, in every way possible. For league games the atmosphere was pretty poor, only a few - and the Fairs Cup games - was the crowd rocking. 60000 Geordies shouting their hearts out. 

Going to the present day St James's, it's a totally different ground. 

A complete refurbishment will make it a completely different ground again. Capacity won't allow a new generation of fans to experience what I experienced.

For heavens sake, move to a new 'state of the art' ground with an 80000 capacity and let everyone experience the thrills of watching our team, and let the world look on in awe! 

I've lived in many houses in my life and loved them all. We all move on in life and learn to love new things. 

I, for one, ache to see the new ground in all it's majestic splendour.