St James' Park

[TheBrownBottle]

4 hours ago, Heron said:

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for everyone...

 

 

 

I’ll speak for me and no-one else (which should be obvious, but isn’t always )

 

There is no-one else on here whose views on SJP and atmosphere I’d take more seriously.  I’ve nothing but admiration for you and your comrades in ‘Wor Flags’ for everything you’ve done and do; trust me, the atmosphere at SJP was abject before the lads and lasses involved with it got involved.  You and your colleagues are what even makes it an argument for me - the blandness of SJP before your fan activism didn’t even make it arguable for me. 

 

Ultimately, I can’t agree with your views re leaving SJP - and my view is that leaving is about more than money.  But I do want to make clear that whatever a gobshite like me writes on here, I’ve nowt but respect for your views.  I do disagree because I think this is what NUFC needs to be everything we all want it to be, but just wanted to be clear.   

[Keegans Export]

7 hours ago, Heron said:

Just one final point before I piss off to sleep and stop irritating folk by quoting everyone

 

I think it could also be deemed a little ignorant and patronising for folk to also claim that those wanting to stay are simply looking through rose tinted glasses at the past too. So swings and roundabouts a bit. Ultimately, we are all passionate about the subject as we want what's best for Newcastle United or our chances of supporting them in person...

 

I'm sure there's no malice intended anyways.

 

Personally speaking- I treat SJP a little like I would my own home(s). It has memories, good and bad times, history, comfort, all of the emotional attachments and tradition of a match day attached to it. I accept I'd move home if I needed, but not without a heavy heart and full understanding of the benefits. I'd be surprised if that's not the case for everyone...

 

 

That's the point I was trying to make earlier, its a nuanced issue and making broad, sweeping statements (something I am guilty of too) doesn't encourage reasoned discussion. 

 

7 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

...what were we saying about ignorance again?

[Dr.Spaceman]

7 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

 

So.... twice a season?

[bobbydazzla]

8 hours ago, Rod said:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.  St  James' Park is a fantastic stadium and when it's jumping it really is jumping.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the East Stand says it all really.  You probably haven't even been in the East Stand. I love my club and love my stadium.

I had a season ticket in the East Stand for one season and the bloke with verbal diarrhoea behind me was one of the best football managers and tacticians the world has ever seen. Far, far better than the likes of Pep Guardiola or Carlo Ancelloti 

 

I moved my ST away from him so never got to find out what happened next in his managerial career, but I’m sure he must have gone on to big things in the world of football 
 

He really was a genius, there can be no doubt about it 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by bobbydazzla

[Dr.Spaceman]

As a current season ticket holder in the middle of the Gallowgate, formerly in the middle of the East Stand for a season and the Gallowgate West corner for Rafa's 3 seasons (ooh, look at me) I can safely say the atmosphere over the last 20 years has largely been a bit of a let down more often than it has been bouncing. It's generally just about north of average imo, but to claim it's one extreme or the other to the point where that forms the basis of your argument for either moving or staying is just daft imo.

 

With regards the stadium move, I just want the option of grabbing a drink, something to eat or going for a piss without having to time it perfectly before I'm queuing for 45 minutes or rubbing shoulders with the folk who sniff shite in the cubicles.

 

A stadium move would also allow us to regroup and create a proper section for those that don't want to sit and tut for 90 minutes.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Oh and the queues outside the ground.... If anyone wants to get in the ground with 10 minutes to go then they should be able to without missing the first few minutes of the game. The queues at the top of the steps opposite the Strawberry are a piss take at times.

[Abacus]

I like the way this debate has been handled by everyone here.

 

SJP means a huge amount to me, it's one of the reasons I came back to Newcastle. Love the place, but if it's time to go, then it's time to go.

[JonBez comesock]

The 5 reasons I am open to a new stadium 

 

1 , it means PIF are truly invested 

 

2 it can massively help with PSR

 

3 it can attract a higher calibre of player , or swing a transfer in our favour once they have visited to look around 

 

4 With the right architect they can build a stadium with fantastic acoustics - which can only help in terms of atmosphere 

 

5, A chance for an extra  10-15k to see newcastle play in the flesh 

 

 

 

 

[TheGuv]

9 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

As a current season ticket holder in the middle of the Gallowgate, formerly in the middle of the East Stand for a season and the Gallowgate West corner for Rafa's 3 seasons (ooh, look at me) I can safely say the atmosphere over the last 20 years has largely been a bit of a let down more often than it has been bouncing. It's generally just about north of average imo, but to claim it's one extreme or the other to the point where that forms the basis of your argument for either moving or staying is just daft imo.

 

With regards the stadium move, I just want the option of grabbing a drink, something to eat or going for a piss without having to time it perfectly before I'm queuing for 45 minutes or rubbing shoulders with the folk who sniff shite in the cubicles.

 

A stadium move would also allow us to regroup and create a proper section for those that don't want to sit and tut for 90 minutes.

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, TheGuv said:

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm convinced they already know what they're after and that our 'wants' are quite far down their list of priorities, if on the list at all. However, they're not daft and they'll not want to alienate us. It's going to be interesting to be honest, I am desperate for some sort of blueprint, mock up or whatever before I'm all in either way.

[TheGuv]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Yeah, I'm convinced they already know what they're after and that our 'wants' are quite far down their list of priorities, if on the list at all. However, they're not daft and they'll not want to alienate us. It's going to be interesting to be honest, I am desperate for some sort of blueprint, mock up or whatever before I'm all in either way.

Of course!

 

However, I’m also talking about the finer details too. One example would be if there is a standing/singing section(s), will there be a % of members tickets also available in there. 
 

It is something I brought up in the safe standing debate (along with opposing corners) which everyone agreed with and then wasn’t implemented. The club just smiled and nodded. Because in truth, they aren’t arsed about things like that.

 

Bearing in mind you’ve got only one chance to get it right and it isn’t just the blueprint, the looks and the acoustics and the physical make up of the ground. 
 

I understand I’m being a Debbie Downer like 

[Heron]

14 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

Good points.

 

However, another word of warning for me. Having attended two of the fan workshops (on safe standing and atmosphere) I do have a worry that the Club won’t seriously listen to the fans on any rebuild either.

 

Every single time they have gone into this with their own plan, sat and pretended to listen to fans’ views and then implemented nothing other than their original plan anyway.

 

 

Yep - same goes for me.

 

They'll already have full stadium plans drawn up and my suspicion based on such events is that the requirements of the traditional football fan will be bottom of the list in favour of caviar, heated seats and a Gucci store

 

Give us (WorFlags) a pulley though and yous can all pay £2k a match...

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by Heron

[Dr.Spaceman]

2 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

Of course!

 

However, I’m also talking about the finer details too. One example would be if there is a standing/singing section(s), will there be a % of members tickets also available in there. 
 

It is something I brought up in the safe standing debate (along with opposing corners) which everyone agreed with and then wasn’t implemented. The club just smiled and nodded. Because in truth, they aren’t arsed about things like that.

 

Bearing in mind you’ve got only one chance to get it right and it isn’t just the blueprint, the looks and the acoustics and the physical make up of the ground. 
 

I understand I’m being a Debbie Downer like 

 

Nah, I'm with you. Moving is a massive gamble with very few guarantees (from our perspective).

 

I am of the opinion that there's two sides to every argument though, there must be a reason why they don't implement these things, they're not a bunch of Mike Ashley's openly laughing at us. Disappointing if when we do move they don't try and implement some fan suggestions but as long as they attempt to explain some of the more sensible ideas then that'll do. Radio silence and they're just leaving themselves open to criticism.

 

It does feel like a bit of a tap-in though, just picking one or two big hitters and saying "hey, look, we listened!"

[Dr.Spaceman]

4 minutes ago, Heron said:

Yep - same goes for me.

 

They'll already have full stadium plans drawn up and my suspicion based on such events is that the requirements of the traditional football fan will be bottom of the list in favour of caviar, heated seats and a Gucci store

 

Give us (WorFlags) a pulley though and yous can all pay £2k a match...

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in.

[Thorpinho]

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, Thorpinho said:

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

 

Yeah, couldn't hear yourself think at times. I do think the demographics of the average fan was vastly different though. You had blokes coming off the back of the 80's, radge fighting and complete neglect from those in charge of the club to all of a sudden we've got one of the best young managers in the game with Andy Cole, Peter Beardsley etc running rings around John Smith from Swindon in the Premier League. Great times. It's no surprise everyone was pumped most games.

[RS]

I’m looking forward to seeing the existing ground evolve. Even if it means years of reduced attendances while it transforms. 
 

History and nostalgia hold a lot for me. Being in a ground where my grandfather and father watched cup winning teams can hopefully be continued by my grandson and onwards. 
 

The loss of the Mayfair and Handyside arcade among others should be a warning of being careful of “progress”. City history being replaced by soulless vacuums of standard flat pack builds. 

[madras]

35 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Yeah, couldn't hear yourself think at times. I do think the demographics of the average fan was vastly different though. You had blokes coming off the back of the 80's, radge fighting and complete neglect from those in charge of the club to all of a sudden we've got one of the best young managers in the game with Andy Cole, Peter Beardsley etc running rings around John Smith from Swindon in the Premier League. Great times. It's no surprise everyone was pumped most games.

That was more the times than acoustics. The acoustics recently were fine against PSG, Arsenal etc.

 

 

[ExiledGeordie]

If it’s in a central location I think I makes sense to be honest but if you’d asked me a year ago I would have said stay at St James. The ridiculous PSR situation is forcing our hand really but equally if the decision was made to revamp St James I wouldn’t complain.

 

That whopper Rory Jennings was on talksport ranting about how it was a disgrace that there was even a discussion of moving from St James. As per talk sport he was probably just creating “discussion” but what he failed to mention was the absurd PSR situation which probably forces this decision. Something his club Chelsea seeks to maintain so that a club like ours can’t push on and challenge the top six.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by ExiledGeordie

[Whitley mag]

10 hours ago, Kanji said:

how could there be any better acoustics? Recall the Owen booing video. Recall PSG at home. 

The stadium is poorly designed for acoustics, yeah it can be loud when the whole ground gets going, but the sound doesn’t travel otherwise due to the design of level 7.

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, Thorpinho said:

Question for those old enough to remember - did the pre expansion version of st James have better acoustics with it being level all around? I often think sound being lost from one end to the other is a negative for atmosphere and people joining in songs  

 

The 36k SJP was far better than the one we currently have. It held the noise in, and added to that our fans were generally more noisy back then as well. For example the Leazes and Gallowgate were about on par with each other for noise, in fact the Leazes was probably better as it was built a year earlier and most of the singers managed to get in there. It's a complete morgue now and as someone who sat there as level 7 was built above it you could feel the life being sucked out of it and eventually, me and many others moved to the Gallowgate (I lasted till 2005/06 before shifting).

 

I've said it before but I've never been a fan of the current SJP. I don't like level 7, I don't like the Leazes End. East stand is well past it's prime. Was in there for the Magic Weekend a couple of years ago and it felt even more cramped, both at my seat and in the concourse than I remembered. The £900 or whatever it costs for a ST in there now is 100% for the view because you don't get anything else.

 

The current design also doesn't lend itself to a good atmosphere. The vast open spaces of L7 loses a lot of the noise as it drifts over the smaller stands. As a comparison I've been lucky enough to be at Ibrox for a big game and you can actually hear and even feel the noise rebounding off all 4 stands as they are all of the same height. Not too dissimilar to big games at the 36k SJP but a bit more intense if truth be told.

 

For me that's the big thing. Atmosphere. A new build allows to to start from scratch. We can have a 20/25k Kop style stand behind one of the goals which is a game changer. At the minute our singing end is 1,500 in the SE Corner which in amongst a 52k crowd is a drop in the ocean.

 

Obviously other benefits as well on the financial side and another big thing is we wouldn't be financially hamstrung by it for a while like Arsenal and Spurs and we wouldn't be paying it off. 

 

Nothing lasts forever and if the option is there, and it's the right option, capacity, location etc, it's a no brainer for me.

 

I'd be sad to leave SJP, but not devastated. It in no way resembles the SJP I was first introduced to back in 1984 so it's just a patch of land to me in all honesty. If we can more to another patch of land a couple of hundred yards up the road then that's not a problem to me.

[Dr Venkman]

15 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

The assertion that we need to move if we're ever going to move the PSR needle. That it's good for people who were previously priced out and are now locked out.

Ok. I agree on refuting the outright assertion that we *need* to move to be competitive. However, I don’t think it’s controversial to assert that the more money coming in, the better the chances of success. The difference between the two positions is quite stark, I think, and it seems disingenuous to argue against the former when it’s clearly nonsense. That was what drew me in to this in the first place.

 

As for the pricing. No argument from me there. It will get more expensive. However, it’s possible it would get equally as expensive without a stadium move. 

[Dr Venkman]

14 hours ago, OpenC said:

 

I have no idea, I haven't really kept up with the owners' motivations, or whether it's actually true that to satisfy PSR you have to have a swiss army knife of a stadium that's busy 24/7.  This is only my perspective  unpopular opinion but if this is the price of being competitive, to turn your club into some sort of all things to all people multiexperience and be more accessible to casual visitors and folk who just want to experience the crack of a football day without being that invested, then fine but I personally am just not that arsed about that sort of future

 

I would be happier if they built the official NUFC Second Home Wongadome somewhere between Morpeth and Seaton Burn and let the women and bairns play there and put on shit bands, go karting, USAball and adult size bouncy castles to keep the punters coming but it seems that you're only allowed to make money by bringing people into your primary playing venue for whatever reason

Fair enough. I don’t understand the motivation for not wanting a stadium that is multi-use. Again, not trying to be clever, but if you’re not going to be involved in the other uses, why would it matter to you that much if it’s bringing in extra revenue for the club?

 

[Dr Venkman]

14 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

I think suggesting that those of us who are leaning towards a move have just been "seduced by smoke and mirrors" is a little bit patronising? 

 

None of us know what might be in terms of what a new stadium would offer, but I do know what currently is and I see a dated stadium with stands that either won't generate an atmosphere (East) or have any noise created leak out into the stratosphere (Leazes/Milburn). I see a hodgepodge of stands that bare no resemblance to the ground that stood any more than 30 years ago so I don't get all misty eyed about playing on the same turf for the past 140+ years. Not one of those stands hasn't either been redeveloped or rebuilt in the past 35 years. 

 

I also see thousands locked out every week and more seats = more chance to get in. That doesn't mean "100k seats for a fiver each!" by the way...

 

Anyway, as you say we all have our opinions and until we see a concrete plan of what they're actually looking to do, we're all just talking about what is or isn't possible. But I would say at least give those who hold a different opinion to you a bit more respect than suggesting we've been poor, ignorant souls lured in by snake oil salesmen.

Agreed.

[bobbydazzla]

45 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

The stadium is poorly designed for acoustics, yeah it can be loud when the whole ground gets going, but the sound doesn’t travel otherwise due to the design of level 7.

I think a decent reference point for the acoustics in the ground and how badly sound travels is whether you can hear the away fans when it’s a noisy away end 

 

And in the Gallowgate they’re barely audible

 

And also the amount of post-match threads in here that talk about how the ground was silent, when Strawberry Corner never stopped singing for the entire game

 

The lopsided design is shite for acoustics

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by bobbydazzla