BlueStar Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Someone else will be injured by then, can't see it being a dilemma. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 sibierski has played about 30 games this season, he's hardly a reserve. and you can forget all that "all fully fit" crap, when was the last time that happened? Out of the list, only Emre and Owen are currently injured, with the former expected to be back on Thursday and Owen by April. Sibierski will not get a start when Dyer and Martins are fit, let alone when Owen/Ameobi are back. He's only played so many games because of the sheer number of injuries we've had this season. He's had 19 starts and 12 substitute appearances out of 44 games, so he's started a bit les than 50%. I never said he was a "reserve", he's just nowhere near a first choice player for Roeder - who prefers Dyer up there to him when the situation allows it. In comparison, Dyer has started 17 despite being crocked for most of the campaign so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I think Roeder has a biggish problem here. As others including myself have said in other threads, Owen and Martins might not be the best combination. However, politically it's a big step to leave Owen out. theyre both small, but i reckon they'd work... Martins aint a poacher, he drops deep alot but Owen is a nice little poacher and will never ever drop deep. Martins will occasionally drop deep, but his link-up play isn't good, and his main strength is as an out and out goalscorer, playing on the line of the back four. I think, like Owen, he's best used in tandem with a more withdrawn striker like Dyer or Rooney. For me, Owen faces a challenge in the second half of his career. The game has become more technical, and players' roles and positions have become more interchangeable in order to unhinge well-organised defences. I think at the very top level, a striker, even the more advanced one, has to be able to drift into different positions on occasions and create, as well as finish. There did seem to be a problem at the World Cup, with Owen asserting that he was a box player, while Eriksson wanted more movement from him. That's just the way the game has gone. If Owen wants to stay at the very top, he needs to adapt, if he can. I think a striker can get away with being fairly static positionally if they're acting as a target man in something like a 4-5-1, but that's not Owen's game either. I really think this is the reason why when he became available from Madrid, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal weren't interested, and Liverpool were only prepared to pay half our money. I worry that we're the mugs who came along with all the dosh at the wrong time in his career. A bit of me is hoping that we'll get a really good offer for him that will allow us to strengthen the team in more needy areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dyer can't play in midfield, so it should be Dyer - even though he's done well. He'd be a good impact player anyway. Given Solano --- Taylor --- Someone1 --- Someone2 Milner --- Emre --- Butt --- N'Zogbia Martins --- Owen So, that would mean bringing in a centre-back, a left-back and a cover striker minimum. Anything less than those three simply isn't good enough. In terms of midfielders, i'd like to see us bring in another right-winger for cover in all honesty. Personal choice would be Giles Barnes - who can also play upfront. Moritz Volz who probably wouldn't cost a bomb, but Gera's available on a free. This is exactly what my hopes would be for the team. I think we can do better than Butt as the holding midfielder. Parker if he can learn to play there properly or somebody fresh. A powerful striker will be needed i think and as you say a left back and a centre back is priority. Gooch is probably going to be the CB i think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I think Roeder has a biggish problem here. As others including myself have said in other threads, Owen and Martins might not be the best combination. However, politically it's a big step to leave Owen out. theyre both small, but i reckon they'd work... Martins aint a poacher, he drops deep alot but Owen is a nice little poacher and will never ever drop deep. Martins will occasionally drop deep, but his link-up play isn't good, and his main strength is as an out and out goalscorer, playing on the line of the back four. I think, like Owen, he's best used in tandem with a more withdrawn striker like Dyer or Rooney. For me, Owen faces a challenge in the second half of his career. The game has become more technical, and players' roles and positions have become more interchangeable in order to unhinge well-organised defences. I think at the very top level, a striker, even the more advanced one, has to be able to drift into different positions on occasions and create, as well as finish. There did seem to be a problem at the World Cup, with Owen asserting that he was a box player, while Eriksson wanted more movement from him. That's just the way the game has gone. If Owen wants to stay at the very top, he needs to adapt, if he can. I think a striker can get away with being fairly static positionally if they're acting as a target man in something like a 4-5-1, but that's not Owen's game either. I really think this is the reason why when he became available from Madrid, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal weren't interested, and Liverpool were only prepared to pay half our money. I worry that we're the mugs who came along with all the dosh at the wrong time in his career. A bit of me is hoping that we'll get a really good offer for him that will allow us to strengthen the team in more needy areas. I hope you're wrong bob, but there's a lot of that that rings true. I'm prepared to have faith in Owen's intelligence and ability to adapt for the moment, until he gets a decent run of games. Also, don't forget the Martins himself has plenty of time to adapt his game and improve his link up play (which I think is already decent). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 As mentioned, someone else will be injured by then (this is NUFC we are talking about here after all). Too many big IF's as Martins and Dyer are our strongest front pairing at the moment up top. Owen has to force his way in by scoring looking sharp in training etc this going to take time. If he does, then it looks like Dyer should make way and switch to either RW or LW. NOT CM he's no good there at all, despite what he thinks. At the moment Dyer and Milner have been superb and would be undroppable for our strongest XI imo, at the present moment i'd Drop Duff for sure and depending on what happens to Emre, perhaps Zoggy will move inside to attacking CM. Not going to worry about it too much as its a great problem to have IF...... it actually happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Not defending Duff but N'zogbia hasn't done anything this season to justify selection in a starting eleven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 i THINK IT WILL BE A GOAL FEST SIDE LIKE THIS (AT BOTH ENDS...): -------------Given----------------- Solano----Taylor----Gooch---Baba Milner----Dyer----Parker-----Duff -------------Owen---Martins---- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dyer Parker Emre N'Zogbia/Duff Martins Owen Dyer can not play CM, he lacks the passing vision that is needed and too often just takes the easiest option. However, on the right, he can use his pace to get round defenders and breaking in for a through ball. Problem is, I think we will see a CM of Parker/Butt and Dyer next season, as it's likely Emre won't be here come September 1st. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dyer Parker Emre N'Zogbia/Duff Martins Owen Dyer can not play CM, he lacks the passing vision that is needed and too often just takes the easiest option. However, on the right, he can use his pace to get round defenders and breaking in for a through ball. Problem is, I think we will see a CM of Parker/Butt and Dyer next season, as it's likely Emre won't be here come September 1st. Dyer can play CM, he did it well enough before JJ arrived. Dyer played in the right of centre with Nobby on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dyer Parker Emre N'Zogbia/Duff Martins Owen Dyer can not play CM, he lacks the passing vision that is needed and too often just takes the easiest option. However, on the right, he can use his pace to get round defenders and breaking in for a through ball. Problem is, I think we will see a CM of Parker/Butt and Dyer next season, as it's likely Emre won't be here come September 1st. Dyer can play CM, he did it well enough before JJ arrived. Dyer played in the right of centre with Nobby on the wing. I know he used to do well there, but in our current team, that's not where he should play. Who did he partner in CM with back then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Gary Speed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iliketoonarmy Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 He wouldn't need to drop anyone because more injuries will come though so he wouldn't have much options. Remember this is NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Absolutely ridiculous to think about building a team round Dyer, drop him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dyer can't play centre-midfield. He's totally ineffective there. If we're going to play Dyer, he needs to be put in an advanced position, that's all he is good for. That's the only way he properly effects a game. Dyer would have to be dropped, or we'd have to establish a new 4-3-3 type system, which is unneeded and unwanted. Newcastle play with wingers. Roeder will certainly have to grow some balls next season. Zoggy should be a regular starter by then n'all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? Can't be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? Can't be. For those pushing Dyer for CM. True enough that he's better than the average parka but he's not good enough in that role for where we want to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? I didn't say i expected him to be. I said he should be. And anyway, i'd still say that N'Zogbia has been marginally more effective than Duff when he has played. Zog's never played consistently, though. How many 90 minute games has he played this season? Has he ever started 3/4 games in a row? Judging this season's performances, he wouldn't be starting next year on merit, he'd be starting cos Duff's a waster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? Can't be. For those pushing Dyer for CM. True enough that he's better than the average parka but he's not good enough in that role for where we want to be. Not good enough in any role tbh. N'Zogbia has been pretty shit this season (remember he only got injured in December, had Aug-Dec playing), but I hope thats just a case of 2nd season syndrome as we all saw how good he can be last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why would you expect n'zogbia to be a starter next season? Is that based on his performances so far this season? Can't be. For those pushing Dyer for CM. True enough that he's better than the average parka but he's not good enough in that role for where we want to be. Not good enough in any role tbh. N'Zogbia has been pretty s*** this season (remember he only got injured in December, had Aug-Dec playing), but I hope thats just a case of 2nd season syndrome as we all saw how good he can be last year. I think it is 2nd season syndrome, but he's a potential player. Like you I hope he makes it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 How often do we ever have these selection crises? This is Newcastle. Expect the team to pick itself within a few weeks of the season's start after a spate of injuries. Anybody who thinks I'm overreacting should ask themselves when was the last time a Newcastle manager had serious selection headaches. If I was Glenn I'd be more worried about keeping 11 of the said players fit than worrying about who is better than who. I'll be very grateful if we can get most of these players on the same field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 There is an irrelevance to this post in that Owen is more than likely to return for next season and some of the players we're trying to factor in will not be here any more. Roeder will also buy new personnel too, if he's given the finances. Emre will probably go and it wouldn't surprise me if N'Zog spits his dummy and goes somewhere. I say worry about next seasons formation and tactics when we know what choices we have to fill them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moe-Ali Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I say it will be Milner because zogg will move into the centre...i hope, duff on the left dyer on the right and parker with zogg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tobiazvanderziaz Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Given Solano Taylor ? ? Parker Emre Dyer Martins Owen Duff Kind of a 4-3-3 with two holding midfielders and an attacking in form of Dyer. Martins and Duff wide forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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