Man U to make Owen bid

[Rebellious]

If we get into Europe next season he will stay, if we fail again he will be off I reckon.  He could go this season as only he really knows the answer to that, along with Freddie Shepard.

[Cajun]

Sorry I didn't realise Zigic was Spanish, as for the Crouch comment thats just laughable, so I will

 

Fat lazy waster that he is Viduka scores and sets up goals, on a free and for £45k a week he will be better value than a lot of our recent purchases!

 

Where did I say he was Spanish? I said he was an unproven La Liga striker. Can you tell me about all the great buys we've made from Spain that have hit the ground running like Owen did and will again?

 

There's thousands of players who represent better value than most of our recent signings but that doesn't mean we should sign them all.

Whats the matter Gejon, don't you like somebody providing constructive arguments against your points?

 

Have I abused you in any way? Grow up FFS!

 

Yes Owen is a very good player and a world class finisher but he is also a big risk and given the length of his contract I am not sure we could risk turning down an offer that would fund us improving our squad and possibly reducing the risk.

 

No you haven't but your cocky 'didn't realise Zigic was Spanish' remark wasn't needed - maybe you think you're font of all knowledge?

 

Well tbf you were the one banging on constantly about Spanish players who have come over and failed as if Zigic would just do the same. Tell me exactly why these players have failed? It gets a bit much when we are too scared to sign players from a certain country but to avoid them just because they have played in a certain country is getting a bit silly. From what I have seen Zigic has all the attributes to do well here.

[Minhosa]

The players I mentioned have failed because they could not adapt. Couldn't adapt to the style of football, the physical nature compared to the Spanish league or the pace of the game here. Not to mention all the shite Managers we've had inbetween times.

 

I am not saying we should not sign players from Spain (be interested if you could find that quote?) but you have talked on here about losing Owen for £12m and 'Lowering the risk'. How exactly does signing a Zigic type player do that?

 

If anything, it would increase the risk as he's not proven. He isn't even proven in Spain FFS.

 

I can see what would happen now. We'd flog Owen, he'd bang the goals in elsewhere, we'd be playing shit football, Zigic would score 5 goals in his first season and the whole of the Ground would be on his back and saying to their mates "Why the fuck did we sell a proven, clinical England Forward for him and fat Mark who's retiring next season?"

 

By the way, I would hardly say I've been 'banging on about Spanish players'.

 

How many times have you seen Zigic?

[Dinho lad]

I've seen him few times and I wasn't impressed, to be honest.

 

 

[johnnypd]

saw Zigic the other day and thought he looked pretty poor. was crap in the air too. though he does have a good record in spain so must have something about him.

[Cajun]

Ok we keep Owen on and at the end of the season he decides he want to leave, we would be lucky to get £5m!

 

If Zigic did come in and score 10 goals with Viduka getting 5 they will more than likely done as much as Owen would have done for less ££££.

 

I have seen enough of him to know he isn't as bad in the air as you are claiming, he is big, strong and for a big man has fairly good feet. He is also a confident finisher.

 

Obviously there is a risk with him adapting to a new league but there is a bigger risk that Owen will continue to suffer injury problems as he has done the whole time he has been at Newcastle with little niggles etc.. without even talking about the two big injuries.

[Parky]

G, I understand what you're saying about spreading our risk with Owen. But sometimes you have to stand by quality and Owen is quality. Zigic and I don't know much about him isn't Owen...Infact nobody in Euro is Owen. I'll tell you something else I don't think Owen has peaked yet. Finishing has nothing to do with pace, there are certain types of goals he won't score anymore...But with his intelligence he will score more goals in other ways.

[Minhosa]

Ok we keep Owen on and at the end of the season he decides he want to leave, we would be lucky to get £5m!

 

If Zigic did come in and score 10 goals with Viduka getting 5 they will more than likely done as much as Owen would have done for less ££££.

 

I have seen enough of him to know he isn't as bad in the air as you are claiming, he is big, strong and for a big man has fairly good feet. He is also a confident finisher.

 

Obviously there is a risk with him adapting to a new league but there is a bigger risk that Owen will continue to suffer injury problems as he has done the whole time he has been at Newcastle with little niggles etc.. without even talking about the two big injuries.

 

Thats the thing though. If those two came in, they would save us about 10k per week in salary costs over Owen. Thats half a million per season. You can't tell me we don't make more than £0.5m per season in relation to merchandise etc from having Owen at the club?

 

So, if we can agree on that, we're basically breaking even salary wise when comparing having Owen Vs Zigic & Viduka.

 

Therefore the question is really in relation to the capital loss on Owens market value between now and the end of his contract (thats assuming he doesn't sign another one) and all of their form/fitness.

 

For me, even with his fitness issues (i.e: the niggly ones rather than the chance of another major injury) Owen is proven, comfortable playing the Premier League and a top performer. Viduka is good for two more seasons (max), does get a fair few niggly injuries himself and you've got to question his motivation in coming here.

 

Zigic is unproven, not a natural goalscorer and will be 28 in two years time. If he doesn't hit the ground running, we could well be in another Luque scenario (forgive my comparison, as Luque is from the Spanish league) meaning his £6m fee would be lost.

 

So, in two years time we could either lose Owen (after two decent years in terms of goals and commercial sales) or having spent best part of our £12m fee on Zigic and a signing on fee for Viduka, we could be getting ready for Viduka's retirement party and preparing to pack off Zigic to Serbia for a couple of quid.

 

OR, you could be right and Zigic could be another Berbatov, whilst Owen is mucking out his horses after another shitty injury.

 

For me, your idea of risk lowering is the opposite though and I'd rather stick with Owen and tell Man Utd they can keep their £12m.

 

[Cajun]

I can't see where I have written off Owen as a player to be fair. I have often spoke on this forum about how he adapted his game years ago when he lost pace and is more about movement and instinct.

 

I am not even all that fussed about Zigic, it was an example of someone who could come in and do a job.

 

My point is Owen is a risk and I am not sure we are in a position to turn down £12m. As said he has throughout a lot of his career had little niggles and now with us 2 serious injures, he is in the final 2 years of his contract and by this time next year his value will have dropped to probably less than a quarter of what it was when we bought him (some even think he was overpriced then!). Say he gets another bad injury with us, another season out and we are fucked.

 

I like Owen as a player, he is a world class finisher and the best striker we could hope to have at the moment but there are still a lot of risks around him and a large sum of money that could be used to buy a cheaper replacement and fund investment in other parts of the squad would be very tempting right now.

[Cajun]

Ok we keep Owen on and at the end of the season he decides he want to leave, we would be lucky to get £5m!

 

If Zigic did come in and score 10 goals with Viduka getting 5 they will more than likely done as much as Owen would have done for less ££££.

 

I have seen enough of him to know he isn't as bad in the air as you are claiming, he is big, strong and for a big man has fairly good feet. He is also a confident finisher.

 

Obviously there is a risk with him adapting to a new league but there is a bigger risk that Owen will continue to suffer injury problems as he has done the whole time he has been at Newcastle with little niggles etc.. without even talking about the two big injuries.

 

Thats the thing though. If those two came in, they would save us about 10k per week in salary costs over Owen. Thats half a million per season. You can't tell me we don't make more than £0.5m per season in relation to merchandise etc from having Owen at the club?

 

So, if we can agree on that, we're basically breaking even salary wise when comparing having Owen Vs Zigic & Viduka.

 

Therefore the question is really in relation to the capital loss on Owens market value between now and the end of his contract (thats assuming he doesn't sign another one) and all of their form/fitness.

 

For me, even with his fitness issues (i.e: the niggly ones rather than the chance of another major injury) Owen is proven, comfortable playing the Premier League and a top performer. Viduka is good for two more seasons (max), does get a fair few niggly injuries himself and you've got to question his motivation in coming here.

 

Zigic is unproven, not a natural goalscorer and will be 28 in two years time. If he doesn't hit the ground running, we could well be in another Luque scenario (forgive my comparison, as Luque is from the Spanish league) meaning his £6m fee would be lost.

 

So, in two years time we could either lose Owen (after two decent years in terms of goals and commercial sales) or having spent best part of our £12m fee on Zigic and a signing on fee for Viduka, we could be getting ready for Viduka's retirement party and preparing to pack off Zigic to Serbia for a couple of quid.

 

OR, you could be right and Zigic could be another Berbatov, whilst Owen is mucking out his horses after another shitty injury.

 

For me, your idea of risk lowering is the opposite though and I'd rather stick with Owen and tell Man Utd they can keep their £12m.

 

 

If Owen doesn't sign a new contract then in 2 years we are getting nothing at all no matter what happens. At least with Zigic there is a chance of getting back a few million if he fails to adapt (look at Boumsong! and Luque hasn't been released for free yet).

 

With Viduka and Zigic we will at least have 2 players in so the injury worries are shared.

[Minhosa]

See your point but £12m isn't a massive amount of money when you think we're talking about a potentially brilliant player.

 

It's like me buying an exquisite, one-off £170k Aston Martin last summer only for it to break down and need a new engine. I've worked like a ninja all winter, and had to drive the Mrs' Ford Focus ever since. I've finally got the new engine, just had it fitted, ran the car over a couple of times and I'm just about to take it for a nice long motorway drive.

 

I'm just about to get the motor out the garage before my motorway trip and my mobile goes............my mate's calling me and saying he'll offer me £120k for it now.

 

I could get a couple of good cars to replace the Aston that might still turn heads, even though they're a bit more common AND the Bastard has let me down when it was virtually brand new, nor should Astons break down for that long BUT I don't want to lose £50k on it even though the thing could break down again and the fact that it might be worthless in two years, especially if another important part like the engine goes.

 

 

But, it really does turn heads, can't be beaten on the motorway and is supremely comfortable.

 

The dilemma is whether to ditch the dream machine for something far more practical.

[Parky]

See your point but £12m isn't a massive amount of money when you think we're talking about a potentially brilliant player.

 

It's like me buying an exquisite, one-off £170k Aston Martin last summer only for it to break down and need a new engine. I've worked like a ninja all winter, and had to drive the Mrs' Ford Focus ever since. I've finally got the new engine, just had it fitted, ran the car over a couple of times and I'm just about to take it for a nice long motorway drive.

 

I'm just about to get the motor out the garage before my motorway trip and my mobile goes............my mate's calling me and saying he'll offer me £120k for it now.

 

I could get a couple of good cars to replace the Aston that might still turn heads, even though they're a bit more common AND the Bastard has let me down when it was virtually brand new, nor should Astons break down for that long BUT I don't want to lose £50k on it even though the thing could break down again and the fact that it might be worthless in two years, especially if another important part like the engine goes.

 

 

But, it really does turn heads, can't be beaten on the motorway and is supremely comfortable.

 

The dilemma is whether to ditch the dream machine for something far more practical.

 

Great analogy richie boy. Never ditch the dream!

[Minhosa]

See your point but £12m isn't a massive amount of money when you think we're talking about a potentially brilliant player.

 

It's like me buying an exquisite, one-off £170k Aston Martin last summer only for it to break down and need a new engine. I've worked like a ninja all winter, and had to drive the Mrs' Ford Focus ever since. I've finally got the new engine, just had it fitted, ran the car over a couple of times and I'm just about to take it for a nice long motorway drive.

 

I'm just about to get the motor out the garage before my motorway trip and my mobile goes............my mate's calling me and saying he'll offer me £120k for it now.

 

I could get a couple of good cars to replace the Aston that might still turn heads, even though they're a bit more common AND the Bastard has let me down when it was virtually brand new, nor should Astons break down for that long BUT I don't want to lose £50k on it even though the thing could break down again and the fact that it might be worthless in two years, especially if another important part like the engine goes.

 

 

But, it really does turn heads, can't be beaten on the motorway and is supremely comfortable.

 

The dilemma is whether to ditch the dream machine for something far more practical.

 

Great analogy richie boy. Never ditch the dream!

 

Exactly! 

 

Halfway through writing that, I thought what the fuck am I on about? Then, in true Magnus Magnusson stylee, I thought fuck it I've started.....................

[Minhosa]

I also thought, 'don't be daft - it'd all be covered under the Aston's warranty'.

 

That didn't help the analogy either, so I thought I'd just leave it out 

[Cajun]

See your point but £12m isn't a massive amount of money when you think we're talking about a potentially brilliant player.

 

It's like me buying an exquisite, one-off £170k Aston Martin last summer only for it to break down and need a new engine. I've worked like a ninja all winter, and had to drive the Mrs' Ford Focus ever since. I've finally got the new engine, just had it fitted, ran the car over a couple of times and I'm just about to take it for a nice long motorway drive.

 

I'm just about to get the motor out the garage before my motorway trip and my mobile goes............my mate's calling me and saying he'll offer me £120k for it now.

 

I could get a couple of good cars to replace the Aston that might still turn heads, even though they're a bit more common AND the Bastard has let me down when it was virtually brand new, nor should Astons break down for that long BUT I don't want to lose £50k on it even though the thing could break down again and the fact that it might be worthless in two years, especially if another important part like the engine goes.

 

 

But, it really does turn heads, can't be beaten on the motorway and is supremely comfortable.

 

The dilemma is whether to ditch the dream machine for something far more practical.

 

If your car had broken down numerous times before you bought it, had spent the last 2 years in the garage and you had to ride a bike 10 miles to work and 10 miles back each day since and have now been offered 2 cars that will do a good job and one of them has a very good history regarding break down... ah i cant be arsed with all that

 

Basically as said I think its a risk and we are being given a get out clause which could help us benefit in the longer term.

[Parky]

G...As it is ManU consider this....Fergy bought RVN after his knee injury and never dropped his interest even though they had talked before the inj. He stood by Smith and before that Roy Keane when they had injuries...He stood by Saha...It's not by accident he is a successful manager.

[Cajun]

If not by accident he also has a fucking huge transfer chest and a pretty much complete team through most of his ManU career.

 

 

[black_n_white]

Don't know about you lot but Owen is my only glimer of hope next season and i cant wait to see him playing again!!! If we sold him we would no doubt sign a load of average tosh and struggle yet again!!!

Just ask yourself the question...whats there to look forward to next season without M.Owen???? Yeah thats right F*CK ALL!!!!

[Parky]

If not by accident he also has a fucking huge transfer chest and a pretty much complete team through most of his ManU career.

 

 

 

I see what you're saying belive me I've had many debates when I've said what you are saying.....The first season back for a player with a mind like Owen I have a feeling it will be something special. Not saying you are wrong, you're argument is perfectly reasonable. If we address the defence and get a playmaker I feel WITH OWEN we will be moving forward.

[Dinho lad]

I believe it's a load of tosh anyway.

[Cajun]

I definitely think Owen is a top player and a world class finisher, if he had a good few years on his contract or was about to sign a new one I would have no doubts about keeping him but as soon as a player gets close to the final 18 months its shit creek! Especially a player of his worth/value and I just don't like the risk. Plus it still feels like all our eggs in one basket, that said there is nothing stopping us picking up Viduka.

[Willow]

Can't believe people are actually believing what they're reading.

A shitty Sunday tabloid with no quotes attributed to a single person. Do people not even realise whenever an article says 'an insider' or 'a source close to the club' it basically means its utter mythical bullshit.

 

Can you imagine if Owen was sold and only £12m?! There'd be a bloody riot!

 

Hes played something like 10 games, scoring 7 and all the way throughout his comeback hes been quoted nearly weekly as saying how much he'd love to get back playing for nufc. Hes said countless times how guilty he's felt about his injury and one of the first things he thought of when his injury occurred was the newcastle fans.

 

I gurantee Owen wouldn't leave us, people have really short memories, especially on this board.

 

 

[wacko]

Owen's always been ruled entirely by his head, not his heart. Think of it from his point of view: apart from CL footie, Manc is fairly close to home, and it would be his last shot at the bigtime in all likelihood.

 

He wasn't afraid to screw over his lifelong club when Real showed an interest, so why would it be any different at Newcastle?

AGREE 100%

 

Wasn't there other problems at Liverpool iirc?

Arguably, yes. But we were well on the way to solving them by replacing Houllier with Rafa. Owen had been running down his contract for a while at that point. I dare say he wasn't actually planning to leave, but he was trying to create a situation favourable to encouraging offers. One came that he liked the look of, so off he went.

 

Given how he wanted to come back and the club was keen to have him back when you outbid us, I'd say it was very much a case of him jumping rather than anyone doing any pushing.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less what he does, and I don't believe there's any substance to the rumours. I just wanted to point out he already has form for naffing off when it suits him. And a transfer to ManU would suit him down to the ground.

[chicago_shearer]

 

I'm just about to get the motor out the garage before my motorway trip and my mobile goes............my mate's calling me and saying he'll offer me £120k for it now.

 

 

That's where the analogy falls flat.  Man United are Premiership rivals...if we sell them Owen at cut price they will benefit, he will certainly score a hat trick at SJP, and we will be left with whatever Boumsong or Luque or Viana or Maric we can get for 12 million. 

 

No way this will benefit us.  Given our transfer history, what on earth do you think is going to happen to that 12 million?  Does cashing in on Woodgate still look like a good idea given the absolute s**** we have playing in defence?

 

Here's a novel idea....why don't we do what other clubs seem to manage and sell our shit players while buying decent replacements instead of the other way around?  We found someone to buy Amady Faye and Jermaine Jenas FFS....if we do need to sell before we can buy then let's get a few million for Luque, Carr, Babayaro, Bramble etc.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

don't think he'll be gone in the summer, but with us not qualifying for europe, i'm personally reallly worried about january with him not being european cuptied next year.  reckon we need to be 5th or 6th come the new year to make him consider staying.........