Rob W Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 i can see us having an "Albert Luque Stand" when the ground is redeveloped he's up there with the greats IMHO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Excellent point. I find it funny when people say he scored his goal against Palermo because it was put on his head, or that he scored two against Celtic because they were excellent crosses. I've seen Van Nistelrooy (no I'm not comparing the two, calm down people) score loads like that and people spunk everywhere over his movement and anticipation to create an easy chance for himself. Those two goals against Celtic, if we were talking about someone like Ruud everyone would be going on about his movement, yet cos it's Luque they make out like Solano and Milner made him score. I've just seen both goals and they show very good movement, anticipation and composure, real poachers goals. I'd be surprised to see Ameobi or even Martins scoring those types of goals and it shows Luque does have something in his locker. He might have done nowt else for the 45 minutes, but he scored two goals in the first half against a decent team and people are trying to knock him for it. At the end of the day it's difficult to judge a player objectively when you really don't like him (eg Luque), just as it is when you love a player (eg Shearer when his legs were going). Luque deserves a fair bit of criticism but he also deserves credit where it's due. I also tend to think that somebody with his pedigree deserves a chance to show it with a run in the team. I think he's lost serious pace because of that injury and it's sad to see, but I remember him raping Cafu as they put Milan out of the Champions League and I think a player who had that ability is worth a bit of patience, espescially when noone is bashing down the door to sign him up. I'm glad Sam sees this because he's paid handsomely to get as much as he can out of every player in the squad and isn't looking to wash his hands of players who will require hard work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Excellent point. I find it funny when people say he scored his goal against Palermo because it was put on his head, or that he scored two against Celtic because they were excellent crosses. I've seen Van Nistelrooy (no I'm not comparing the two, calm down people) score loads like that and people spunk everywhere over his movement and anticipation to create an easy chance for himself. Those two goals against Celtic, if we were talking about someone like Ruud everyone would be going on about his movement, yet cos it's Luque they make out like Solano and Milner made him score. At the end of the day it's difficult to judge a player objectively when someone really don't like him (eg Luque), just as it is when they love a player (eg Shearer when his legs were going). Luque deserves a fair bit of criticism but he also deserves credit where it's due. I also tend to think that somebody with his pedigree deserves a chance on that alone, because he does have natural ability. I think he's lost serious pace because of that injury and it's sad to see, but I remember him raping Cafu as they put Milan out of the Champions League and I think a player who had that ability is worth a bit of patience, espescially when noone is bashing down the door to sign him up. One of the best posts in a long time. Some people have agendas on here and it annoys the f*** out of me. The lads scored three in two games against celtic now. If he listens to Sam he will become a good player for us. I'd be suprised if he is good enough to come back to his best but if he can become a good squad player i will be delighted after everything thats happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spark Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Excellent point. I find it funny when people say he scored his goal against Palermo because it was put on his head, or that he scored two against Celtic because they were excellent crosses. I've seen Van Nistelrooy (no I'm not comparing the two, calm down people) score loads like that and people spunk everywhere over his movement and anticipation to create an easy chance for himself. Those two goals against Celtic, if we were talking about someone like Ruud everyone would be going on about his movement, yet cos it's Luque they make out like Solano and Milner made him score. I've just seen both goals and they show very good movement, anticipation and composure. He might have done nowt else for the 45 minutes, but he scored two goals in the first half against a decent team and people are trying to knock him for it. Some people would call that clinical. At the end of the day it's difficult to judge a player objectively when someone really don't like him (eg Luque), just as it is when they love a player (eg Shearer when his legs were going). Luque deserves a fair bit of criticism but he also deserves credit where it's due. I also tend to think that somebody with his pedigree deserves a chance on that alone, because he does have natural ability. I think he's lost serious pace because of that injury and it's sad to see, but I remember him raping Cafu as they put Milan out of the Champions League and I think a player who had that ability is worth a bit of patience, espescially when noone is bashing down the door to sign him up. Thats a bloody good post. It's going to take a run of games for Luque to get his fitness and sharpness back and hopefully he'll come good for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 He scored two goals yes but he is so fkn reluctant to hold onto the ball and bring others into play, his passing is shocking, he would rather give it away then get caught in possession and maybe get clatterd. Once he gets some balls and learns to toughen up then i am sure he can be a very decent player for us but not until he gets a pair!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 He scored two goals yes but he is so fkn reluctant to hold onto the ball and bring others into play, his passing is shocking, he would rather give it away then get caught in possession and maybe get clatterd. Once he gets some balls and learns to toughen up then i am sure he can be a very decent player for us but not until he gets a pair!! As much as i like to think he's going to come good, i do agree with the strength thing. However, when it comes to fitness and attributes i wouldn't look further than sam to sort him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Game is being shown on Setanta 2 again in about 3 minutes time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Excellent point. I find it funny when people say he scored his goal against Palermo because it was put on his head, or that he scored two against Celtic because they were excellent crosses. I've seen Van Nistelrooy (no I'm not comparing the two, calm down people) score loads like that and people spunk everywhere over his movement and anticipation to create an easy chance for himself. Those two goals against Celtic, if we were talking about someone like Ruud everyone would be going on about his movement, yet cos it's Luque they make out like Solano and Milner made him score. I've just seen both goals and they show very good movement, anticipation and composure, real poachers goals. I'd be surprised to see Ameobi or even Martins scoring those types of goals and it shows Luque does have something in his locker. He might have done nowt else for the 45 minutes, but he scored two goals in the first half against a decent team and people are trying to knock him for it. At the end of the day it's difficult to judge a player objectively when you really don't like him (eg Luque), just as it is when you love a player (eg Shearer when his legs were going). Luque deserves a fair bit of criticism but he also deserves credit where it's due. I also tend to think that somebody with his pedigree deserves a chance to show it with a run in the team. I think he's lost serious pace because of that injury and it's sad to see, but I remember him raping Cafu as they put Milan out of the Champions League and I think a player who had that ability is worth a bit of patience, espescially when noone is bashing down the door to sign him up. I'm glad Sam sees this because he's paid handsomely to get as much as he can out of every player in the squad and isn't looking to wash his hands of players who will require hard work. i think both were excelent finishes, very well times volleys, but at the same time you have to recognise that luque and V.N are very different types of players. its ok that V.N (or Owen) have limited skill on the ball, and can be absent for 89 mins of a game, because they are 25 a season strikers, there to score goals, and natural predators. Luque is none of these things, he scored 2 vs celtic, but won't score 20 in a season, even if he starts every game, because he's not a natural finisher. He took both his goals well, and very good movement for the second, but his skill on the ball was woeful, and if he plays with limited on the ball skill, and won't score 20 a season, then what does he offer? he needs more confidence on the ball. The best bit of him at the moment is funnily his end product. He has good crosses, and has shown good shooting technique. If the other parts improve to PL standard (off the ball and on the ball skills) then he will be a good player for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Excellent point. I find it funny when people say he scored his goal against Palermo because it was put on his head, or that he scored two against Celtic because they were excellent crosses. I've seen Van Nistelrooy (no I'm not comparing the two, calm down people) score loads like that and people spunk everywhere over his movement and anticipation to create an easy chance for himself. Those two goals against Celtic, if we were talking about someone like Ruud everyone would be going on about his movement, yet cos it's Luque they make out like Solano and Milner made him score. I've just seen both goals and they show very good movement, anticipation and composure, real poachers goals. I'd be surprised to see Ameobi or even Martins scoring those types of goals and it shows Luque does have something in his locker. He might have done nowt else for the 45 minutes, but he scored two goals in the first half against a decent team and people are trying to knock him for it. At the end of the day it's difficult to judge a player objectively when you really don't like him (eg Luque), just as it is when you love a player (eg Shearer when his legs were going). Luque deserves a fair bit of criticism but he also deserves credit where it's due. I also tend to think that somebody with his pedigree deserves a chance to show it with a run in the team. I think he's lost serious pace because of that injury and it's sad to see, but I remember him raping Cafu as they put Milan out of the Champions League and I think a player who had that ability is worth a bit of patience, espescially when noone is bashing down the door to sign him up. I'm glad Sam sees this because he's paid handsomely to get as much as he can out of every player in the squad and isn't looking to wash his hands of players who will require hard work. i think both were excelent finishes, very well times volleys, but at the same time you have to recognise that luque and V.N are very different types of players. its ok that V.N (or Owen) have limited skill on the ball, and can be absent for 89 mins of a game, because they are 25 a season strikers, there to score goals, and natural predators. Luque is none of these things, he scored 2 vs celtic, but won't score 20 in a season, even if he starts every game, because he's not a natural finisher. He took both his goals well, and very good movement for the second, but his skill on the ball was woeful, and if he plays with limited on the ball skill, and won't score 20 a season, then what does he offer? he needs more confidence on the ball. The best bit of him at the moment is funnily his end product. He has good crosses, and has shown good shooting technique. If the other parts improve to PL standard (off the ball and on the ball skills) then he will be a good player for us. TBF Luque does have skill on the ball. He just hasn't shown us much of it yet. Like you say he needs confidence and with a but more fitness and man management and there is a CHANCE he could become a good player for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 i think both were excelent finishes, very well times volleys, but at the same time you have to recognise that luque and V.N are very different types of players. its ok that V.N (or Owen) have limited skill on the ball, and can be absent for 89 mins of a game, because they are 25 a season strikers, there to score goals, and natural predators. Luque is none of these things, he scored 2 vs celtic, but won't score 20 in a season, even if he starts every game, because he's not a natural finisher. He took both his goals well, and very good movement for the second, but his skill on the ball was woeful, and if he plays with limited on the ball skill, and won't score 20 a season, then what does he offer? he needs more confidence on the ball. The best bit of him at the moment is funnily his end product. He has good crosses, and has shown good shooting technique. If the other parts improve to PL standard (off the ball and on the ball skills) then he will be a good player for us. What sort of ratio of goals to games does Luque have since coming here? I bet it's not bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! Martins pen v Everton, no bottle tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Define bottle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Define bottle? Bottle as in bravery as in being scared of getting hurt but still keeping a hold of the ball anyway.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Luque is still nowhere near the right level of fitness and is probably a bit wary of getting too stuck in especially given the severity of his injury - an injury that apparently he has still not gotten over. Give him a few games to get fit I say. He's never had a run of games to get used to the English game as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 i think both were excelent finishes, very well times volleys, but at the same time you have to recognise that luque and V.N are very different types of players. its ok that V.N (or Owen) have limited skill on the ball, and can be absent for 89 mins of a game, because they are 25 a season strikers, there to score goals, and natural predators. Luque is none of these things, he scored 2 vs celtic, but won't score 20 in a season, even if he starts every game, because he's not a natural finisher. He took both his goals well, and very good movement for the second, but his skill on the ball was woeful, and if he plays with limited on the ball skill, and won't score 20 a season, then what does he offer? he needs more confidence on the ball. The best bit of him at the moment is funnily his end product. He has good crosses, and has shown good shooting technique. If the other parts improve to PL standard (off the ball and on the ball skills) then he will be a good player for us. What sort of ratio of goals to games does Luque have since coming here? I bet it's not bad. 19 (26) = 5 goals 2 assists. 1 league goal, 2 european goals, 2 goals for spain. (according to soccernet it was 2(4) for spain, which yielded 2 goals, at 1 goal every 3 games ) overall since 2001 he's reached 15 in all competitions once, and double figures a further 2 times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Define bottle? Bottle as in bravery as in being scared of getting hurt but still keeping a hold of the ball anyway.. It would make more sense if you said "Luque isn't tough enough and he doesn't get rid of the ball quick enough" If thats your critisism of him. Bottles a bullshit word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. I can't remember Ginola getting clattered all of the time, I remember him jumping as if he had springs in his boots any time he was tackled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 i would say luque is mentally and physically weak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 i would say luque is mentally and physically weak. Physically not 100% fit, but to be honest after Roeder left him out constantly last season any player would be mentally weak. He needs to play to get his confidence back. I still think, given a chance he could be a damn good player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Luque bags of talent but no bottle! The same could have been said about Ginola, it didn't stop him from being a good player for us. Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. Define bottle? Bottle as in bravery as in being scared of getting hurt but still keeping a hold of the ball anyway.. It would make more sense if you said "Luque isn't tough enough and he doesn't get rid of the ball quick enough" If thats your critisism of him. Bottles a bullshit word. I did say higher up the thread that he is not very tough and my complaint is that he DOES get rid of the ball to quick, he will not hold the ball up at all, he could have played Butt in the other night if he had held the ball up for a few seconds but he gave it away, Butt let him know so too. Bottle is a term widely used to describe bravery, made up word I just think he is a wimp and being that way stops him being as effective as he could be in a game. In Spain they get lots more time on the ball without a player flying into a tackle on them, its that part of the Prem game that I think he is finding hard to deal with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenige Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 I think Luque is relatively lightweight on the ball, but in all fairness, the Spanish league is like that, it has taken some imports a while to adapt (Garcia was the prime example) whilst those with strength over there tend to do better (see Kanoute). I don't honestly think he's played enough Premiership games to truly adapt his game, but I think doing this is far from impossible. And I would almost agree with the mental factor, that injury he had really has scarred him to an extent, I think he does suffer from worry about being injured and maybe that's why he's sometimes not great in a challenge. Signs in that Celtic did show he has improved and perhaps is willing to do more so. Maybe with Butt and Barton flying in in training sessions will help his cause! I say he has to be given a chance, but I feel as though I've personally said that for a while. It's clear Sam wants to either give him his chance or just improve his value. We'll just have to wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Quote from: Skirge on Today at 02:05:54 PM Ginola had bottle, he got clatterd all the time trying to go past players, luque gives the ball away the second it looks like he will be closed down. Ginola was lazy and would not track back, had nowt to do with lack of bottle. I can't remember Ginola getting clattered all of the time, I remember him jumping as if he had springs in his boots any time he was tackled. Ginola could skip a tackle and go past players with ease, he did get caught a good few times though but the fact is that he did try to take people on and go past them, he did hold up the ball not just pass it because he was going to be closed down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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