Dirk Kuyt (now retired)

[GeordieDazzler]

But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

my fears exactally

[Teasy]

Spot on, unfortunately Newcastle United have some of the most ignorant fans on the planet in there ranks.  If a new signing doesn't become an instant success there will be calls to sell, sometimes even after only there first game.. its embarrasing to be honest.

[Wullie]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Correct.

[Keefaz]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Correct.

 

Not sure if this is correct, really. When was the last time this happened?

[Wullie]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Correct.

 

Not sure if this is correct, really. When was the last time this happened?

 

Albert Luque?

 

Plus the amount of people in this thread alone who have judged him on 2 games is astonishing.

[Keefaz]

I'm not sure the fans have given up on Luque, tbh. He's barely played, so I don't see how the fans could turn against him. If anyone's given up on him, it's Roeder.

[NE5]

Spot on, unfortunately Newcastle United have some of the most ignorant fans on the planet in there ranks.  If a new signing doesn't become an instant success there will be calls to sell, sometimes even after only there first game.. its embarrasing to be honest.

 

As I believe I have asked you regarding Luque mate, where exactly is YOUR seat where you exercise your judgement ?

 

 

[NE5]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Sorry Andy, I just don't agree. There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish, and also many players that you can see who are quality. There are also players who you are not sure of and want to watch for a longer period.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

 

[Tooj]

Jesus christ this thread has shown we have some of the most fickle fans in the entire country

[alpal78]

Jesus christ this thread has shown we have some of the most fickle fans in the entire country

 

but they know by just looking at just one game coz they are bloody experts!

[Syrette]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Sorry Andy, I just don't agree. There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish, and also many players that you can see who are quality. There are also players who you are not sure of and want to watch for a longer period.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

 

Rubbish.

[tmonkey]

Kezman is being mentioned because he is an indication of how an average forward can score very heavily in the Dutch League.

 

Ive seen enough dutch games on telly to know that half the defences in that league would struggle in the Championship. Like Rod Wallace or Marco Negri scoring heavily in the SPL, a player scoring regularly in the SPL doesnt mean much at all on its own, you have to consider the abilities of the player in question. We're seeing that right now, with an average striker like Shota Arvaladze, worth 2 mill max and probably not good enough for the Premiership, topping the charts in Holland for a while this season.

 

Doesnt mean to say hes not a top player, but that does mean that Kuyt is unproven outside what is a weak league.

 

Hes different to the likes of Ronaldo, Romario, Bergkamp, Robben, etc, because they had immense talent/pace, skill, ie natural ability to die for. Others like RVN proved themselves in other competitions, RVN had something like 6 from 6 in the Group Stages of the CL iirc, a clear indication of his ability at the top level and that he was punching below his weight in Holland. Kuyt falls into neither of those categories, yet from his asking price you would think that he does.

 

Not leaning this way or that with Kuyt, could be a great or could be a goalscoring flop at Premiership level, problem for us is theres little indication of him being the former at this point in time.

[Ronaldo]

Kezman is being mentioned because he is an indication of how an average forward can score very heavily in the Dutch League.

 

Ive seen enough dutch games on telly to know that half the defences in that league would struggle in the Championship. Like Rod Wallace or Marco Negri scoring heavily in the SPL, a player scoring regularly in the SPL doesnt mean much at all on its own, you have to consider the abilities of the player in question. We're seeing that right now, with an average striker like Shota Arvaladze, worth 2 mill max and probably not good enough for the Premiership, topping the charts in Holland for a while this season.

 

Doesnt mean to say hes not a top player, but that does mean that Kuyt is unproven outside what is a weak league.

 

Hes different to the likes of Ronaldo, Romario, Bergkamp, Robben, etc, because they had immense talent/pace, skill, ie natural ability to die for. Others like RVN proved themselves in other competitions, RVN had something like 6 from 6 in the Group Stages of the CL iirc, a clear indication of his ability at the top level and that he was punching below his weight in Holland. Kuyt falls into neither of those categories, yet from his asking price you would think that he does.

 

Not leaning this way or that with Kuyt, could be a great or could be a goalscoring flop at Premiership level, problem for us is theres little indication of him being the former at this point in time.

 

agree with that, but in fairness, Kuyt's power in the box could surely be used to better effect in the premiership

[NE5]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Sorry Andy, I just don't agree. There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish, and also many players that you can see who are quality. There are also players who you are not sure of and want to watch for a longer period.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

 

Rubbish.

 

Well, it might take YOU half a season to judge a player, but I'm quite confident to do it quickly fairly often.

 

Strange but I think some of you - especially the ones who still champion Luque, the ones who raved on about Boumsong when he came, the ones who said Ameobi would fill Shearers position and be a top player, the ones who raved on about Kluivert, the ones who have a fascination for any overpriced foreigners, and the ones who said we would be better off without Craig Bellamy, I am pleased you aren't scouting for the club.

 

 

[Guest Verlaine]

Jesus christ this thread has shown we have some of the most fickle fans in the entire country

 

but they know by just looking at just one game coz they are bloody experts!

 

See the 'anyone caught your eye thread,' full of expert opinion and WE MUST SIGN so and so, based on...

 

one game. at the world cup, too.

[Guest Armchair Pundit]

Judging a player on two games, one against the best team in the tournament and the other a poor team performance against a pretty solid portugal side, is just beyond belief in all honesty. Granted, you can only go off what you've seen, but to pass a player off as "not good enough" on the basis of TWO matches, as some are, is just absolutely incredible.

 

Fact is, Kuyt coming here probably WOULD be a mistake. Not because of a lack of ability. But because the slightly more moronic section of our fanbase wouldn't even give him a chance to prove himself before wanting him out of the door.

 

Sorry Andy, I just don't agree. There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish, and also many players that you can see who are quality. There are also players who you are not sure of and want to watch for a longer period.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

 

Rubbish.

 

Well, it might take YOU half a season to judge a player, but I'm quite confident to do it quickly fairly often.

 

Strange but I think some of you - especially the ones who still champion Luque, the ones who raved on about Boumsong when he came, the ones who said Ameobi would fill Shearers position and be a top player, the ones who raved on about Kluivert, the ones who have a fascination for any overpriced foreigners, and the ones who said we would be better off without Craig Bellamy, I am pleased you aren't scouting for the club.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, would said people that judge a player on a couple of games played also say Michael Owen is rubbish on the evidence of the games he'd played in this year's World Cup if they'd not seen him before?

[Andy]

There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish [...]

 

All players have bad games, and all players have bad consecutive games. Even the likes of Maradona and Pele had awful displays, but you wouldn't categorise them as "rubbish" based on seeing those performances, even if it was the first time you'd seen them play. Obviously, I'm not comparing Kuyt to Pele or Maradona, but the point is still valid.

 

There ARE players out there (fumaca) who you watch and think "christ, has he even kicked a ball before?", I agree. But Kuyt is NOT one of those players. His two displays in the world cup were below expectations, yes. But they weren't so bad that they were beyond the point of being dismissible as just "two bad games" and nothing more. They certainly weren't so bad that you could immediately categorise him as being "rubbish" or "simply not good enough" without seeing more.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

People are swift enough to judge him based on his performances against two of the most solid teams in world football. What would the reaction be if he failed to score against Wigan and Villa?

 

[James]

From what I saw of Kuyt, I still want us to get him, I see him as a hardworking, strong and fearless striker - a slower Bellamy (but whose general play ie passing and crossing is better than Bellamy's). I'm worried however that people will perceive him as being Shearer's successor - he wont be, and will therefore dissappoint many, including the media who will in turn criticise Roeder for signing him and sticking with him,  possibly evenleading to Roeder's demise. With all the burden put on Kuyt by Owen's injury, the extent of these problems will be quadrupled.

[GM]

From what I saw of Kuyt, I still want us to get him, I see him as a hardworking, strong and fearless striker - a slower Bellamy (but whose general play ie passing and crossing is better than Bellamy's). I'm worried however that people will perceive him as being Shearer's successor - he wont be, and will therefore dissappoint many, including the media who will in turn criticise Roeder for signing him and sticking with him, possibly evenleading to Roeder's demise. With all the burden put on Kuyt by Owen's injury, the extent of these problems will be quadrupled.

 

I hope nobody is seriously expecting us to get a like-for-like replacement for Shearer because (a) that just isn't going to happen! (b) Shearer's retirement needs to be seen as an opportunity to change the way we play and explore new methods, make the best of new player's different styles © Kuyt or whoever comes in will already feel the weight of expectation on their shoulders - they won't need the fans waiting for them to fail, they need the fans support - and there's no reason I can see why he/whoever comes in wouldn't get it.

[buzza]

Kuyt held the ball up well and offered himself to the midfield at every opportunity, brought other players into play and worked his arse off... What he failed to do, or others failed to help him do.. was score a goal. Playing up front on your own with carvalho and the other centre half (great game) would be difficult for any player, add to that the fact that he never got a decent cross all evening...

For me the only negative was that he seemed woefully slow. Not sure on this one as I haven't seen him play enough. Would contribute to general team play but does he have what it takes to score 20 in the prem?

[AlanSkÃrare]

Kuyt held the ball up well and offered himself to the midfield at every opportunity, brought other players into play and worked his arse off... What he failed to do, or others failed to help him do.. was score a goal. Playing up front on your own with carvalho and the other centre half (great game) would be difficult for any player, add to that the fact that he never got a decent cross all evening...

For me the only negative was that he seemed woefully slow. Not sure on this one as I haven't seen him play enough. Would contribute to general team play but does he have what it takes to score 20 in the prem?

 

Dont know if its already been said but Kuyt also managed to NOT be shown a yellow card in the game against Portugal, a model proffessional just like Shearer...stays out of trouble when it emerges. I've seen him play a couple of times and you could tell that he was a bit nervous in the first half, just like in the game vs Argentina. BUT: he plays well and the only thing missing is a goal. Brilliant targetplayer and gave 100% in every situation. I'd be happy if we bought him for £10M.

[Syrette]

Only problem I had with him, and Netherlands as a whole last night, was the blatent diving/playacting. Kuyt was one of the worst offenders.

 

Still, he wouldn't be the first.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

yeah but you absolutely bum Kuyt. He aint worth 10 big ones! Having said that looking at some of the alternatives may as well stump it up

[NE5]

There are many players you can see after 1 game that are rubbish [...]

 

All players have bad games, and all players have bad consecutive games. Even the likes of Maradona and Pele had awful displays, but you wouldn't categorise them as "rubbish" based on seeing those performances, even if it was the first time you'd seen them play. Obviously, I'm not comparing Kuyt to Pele or Maradona, but the point is still valid.

 

There ARE players out there (fumaca) who you watch and think "christ, has he even kicked a ball before?", I agree. But Kuyt is NOT one of those players. His two displays in the world cup were below expectations, yes. But they weren't so bad that they were beyond the point of being dismissible as just "two bad games" and nothing more. They certainly weren't so bad that you could immediately categorise him as being "rubbish" or "simply not good enough" without seeing more.

 

Why do you think our fanbase would want him out of the door before proving himself ? It;s up to him to prove himself, surely ?

 

People are swift enough to judge him based on his performances against two of the most solid teams in world football. What would the reaction be if he failed to score against Wigan and Villa?

 

 

Crossed wires mate, it wasn't really a comment about Kuyt, but about the general concept of judging players quickly. I agree with you that players like your Fumaca's of this world are instantly forgettable, and likewise others the opposite.

 

Sometimes I think you can tell a player is a good player even if he has doesn't have a good game, or might be one. I don't think there is any hard and fast rules about how quickly you can judge a player, there is a point where you can make this judgment for yourself, it could take one game, it could take 4 or 5. It just depends what you look for. I think personality on the pitch is important, and I tend to write players off if I think this is not right. Just as I would write them off if I don't think they have enough footballing ability. By contrast a player can have a poor game but do one thing which is spot on, but you can tell if his attitude is good in spite of the rest of the game not going too well for him.

 

When you say that people don't support players if they aren't world beaters etc immediately, I think that it's a 2 way thing. If players aren't prepared to give everything for the club then why should they expect unquestioned support in return ? Do you think this is fair comment ? And I don't mean booing, criticising etc...what we say in the pub after the game or on these message boards isn't what you do at the actual game. I always support the players when they are playing.

 

I am not sure about Kuyt tbh, I prefer the German player Podolski, what do you think ? However if Newcastle are strapped for cash we aren't in a position to call the shots anyway.

 

 

[Guest Living Legend]

Podolski just moved to Bayern Munchen this summer.