Guest jamesmartinsmith Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 ................given belletti...........taylor.....rozehnal..........enrique ..........barton..........geremi...........smith .......................deco ..................owen......viduka. if you lot are including belletti then i'm including deco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I wonder if Sam wants us to play a narrow team with wing-backs, since he is looking at yet another defensive midfielder, and yet another pacy full-back. Sam said earlier in the summer that he had looked for proper, defensive full-backs but that there weren't any around, that the ones available were converted wingers. then he went out and bought a wingback in Enrique and wants a former winger in Belletti. This suggests to me he now wants his full-backs to have more attacking responsbility, perhaps as a means to accomodate Owen into a 4-3-3 type system. The wing-backs would push to the opposition's byline and cross to two central strikers who would be playing as if they were in a 4-4-2. The strikers would have to make do with a bit more movement outside the box to compensate tho. In a Bolton-like 4-3-3 the wide forwards start out on the flank then work their way inwards while in this formation they begin in the middle and run out into the space by the corner flag. This is not only a far easier thing to do (defender's naturally shepherd you away from goal, while try to block you off if you head to the box) but way closer to Martin and Owen's natural game. it would be easier than a 4-3-3 for them, but harder than a simple 4-4-2. Obviously having two wing-backs in the side would mean we resort to more defenders in the middle, either in the form of a back three, or by playing two holding players who can provide extra cover. As the back three is pretty much discredited in modern football i think we'll see two DMs, one who acts as an energetic destroyer who never goes forward (Faye?) and another, more subtle player, who acts as the water-carrier and instigator of attacks (Butt or Geremi). Line up would be something like this, based on a similar, recent Milan formation with two strikers: Owen Martins Viduka Barton Geremi Enrique Faye Belletti Taylor Rozehnal Given Strengths? Solid midfield offering lots of protection, this team would keep possession well as it has many destroyers and also many skillful ball players with intelligent movement. It also allows Martins and Owen to play in their favoured position without their incompatibility being as much of an issue due to Viduka's presence. Seemingly finds a place for all our best talents. Weaknesses? Lack of width in the final third (no duff, milner or zoggy), though this can be remedied by directing the strikers to pin teams back with their pace and work the channels. Viduka's movement - he's not exactly Kaka is he? Relies on the wing-backs to a hideous extent, not good if they're bogged down defending. How are we counting Barton? A Clarence Seedorf - working hard, covering his flank, but attacking a lot more, "spinning" off Viduka who would be a more static playmaker in the Bergkamp mold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 ____________________Given_____________________ Geremi________Cacapa____Rozenhal_________Enrique Milner_________Barton____Emre/Butt_________NZogbia ______________Viduka____Martins_________________ SUBS: Harper Taylor Butt/Emre Smith Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I wonder if Sam wants us to play a narrow team with wing-backs, since he is looking at yet another defensive midfielder, and yet another pacy full-back. Sam said earlier in the summer that he had looked for proper, defensive full-backs but that there weren't any around, that the ones available were converted wingers. then he went out and bought a wingback in Enrique and wants a former winger in Belletti. This suggests to me he now wants his full-backs to have more attacking responsbility, perhaps as a means to accomodate Owen into a 4-3-3 type system. The wing-backs would push to the opposition's byline and cross to two central strikers who would be playing as if they were in a 4-4-2. The strikers would have to make do with a bit more movement outside the box to compensate tho. In a Bolton-like 4-3-3 the wide forwards start out on the flank then work their way inwards while in this formation they begin in the middle and run out into the space by the corner flag. This is not only a far easier thing to do (defender's naturally shepherd you away from goal, while try to block you off if you head to the box) but way closer to Martin and Owen's natural game. it would be easier than a 4-3-3 for them, but harder than a simple 4-4-2. Obviously having two wing-backs in the side would mean we resort to more defenders in the middle, either in the form of a back three, or by playing two holding players who can provide extra cover. As the back three is pretty much discredited in modern football i think we'll see two DMs, one who acts as an energetic destroyer who never goes forward (Faye?) and another, more subtle player, who acts as the water-carrier and instigator of attacks (Butt or Geremi). Line up would be something like this, based on a similar, recent Milan formation with two strikers: Owen Martins Viduka Barton Geremi Enrique Faye Belletti Taylor Rozehnal Given Strengths? Solid midfield offering lots of protection, this team would keep possession well as it has many destroyers and also many skillful ball players with intelligent movement. It also allows Martins and Owen to play in their favoured position without their incompatibility being as much of an issue due to Viduka's presence. Seemingly finds a place for all our best talents. Weaknesses? Lack of width in the final third (no duff, milner or zoggy), though this can be remedied by directing the strikers to pin teams back with their pace and work the channels. Viduka's movement - he's not exactly Kaka is he? Relies on the wing-backs to a hideous extent, not good if they're bogged down defending. How are we counting Barton? A Clarence Seedorf - working hard, covering his flank, but attacking a lot more, "spinning" off Viduka who would be a more static playmaker in the Bergkamp mold. clarence has one wicked shot though.. not sure if barton does Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Since we know Sam will play 4-3-3 Given Taylor Enrique Roz Cacapa Geremi Barton Smith Martins Duff Shola Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest khyberpass Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Given/(Krul) Belletti/(anyone but Carr) Taylor/(Cacapa) Rozehnal/ (Edgar) Enrique/(Zog) Milner/ () Smith/(Geremi) Barton / (Emre) Luque/ (Duff) Martins / (Owen) Viduka / (Ameobi) The right wing, right back & centre back spots still look weak for subs...otherwise a strong squad.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Since we know Sam will play 4-3-3 Given Taylor Enrique Roz Cacapa Geremi Barton Smith Martins Duff Shola since how do we know ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Although no doubt it will get me slated, at the 65-70 minute point on Saturday I would liked to see Sam really go on the attack and switch to a 3-5-2 or even a 3-4-3. Villa were so defensive that it would of been hard for MO'N to actually change their shape/mentality to counter. Take fatty Carr off and possibly Butt for Cacapa and Owen, so this isn't a strongest 11 but a change the game formation against a defensive team which is tiring later in the game. Harper Taylor Rozehnal Cacapa Milner Geremi Smith N'Zogbia Viduka Owen Martins In a perfect world we'd have a creative player to play in the hole, Nobby could do it possibly either Charlie or Milner, I personally don't think Emre could but others will disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt10 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins No Geremi? The club captain Different from the team in your sig as well, mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Since we know Sam will play 4-3-3 Given Taylor Enrique Roz Cacapa Geremi Barton Smith Martins Duff Shola ..?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 From what I've seen this season so far... yes, I'd pick Shola over Viduka right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Geremi -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- N'Zogbia ---- Milner---- Barton ---- Emre ---- Martins ---- Shola ---- Duff A lot would change if Viduka gets in shape, if Owen comes back strong, if Enrique is class, if the club signs Belletti, Deco, etc. Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner---- Barton ---- Emre/Deco :giggle: ---- N'Zogbia/Duff Martins/Owen ---- Viduka/Shola Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Flexibilty is the key and Sam has got a number of players who can slot into different roles so that 4-4-2 and 4-4-3 are easily possible. Posts above have set out how we might line up in both those formations. Assuming Belletti joins us I could also see this line up with 3 central defenders and wing backs: Cacapa Taylor Rosenal Belletti Enrique Geremi Barton Emre Owen Smith Depending on form/fitness/African Cup you have also got Faye, Butt, Zoggy,Milner, Viduka, Martins, Ameobi who can slot in to the above or turn it into a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. Plus players like Smith and Geremi can play in a number of different positions if necessary. The options in our squad are numerous and will give plenty of scope to alter tactics to suit the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Not particularly innovative idea for a thread, I suppose, but interested to see people's thoughts on it. What do people think will end up being our first choice 11 if/when everyone gets fit? I'll allow people to include Belletti, only because I want to force people to choose between Butt and Geremi in midfield. Anyway, my guess is ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozenhal -- Enrique ---- Barton -- Geremi -- Emre Martins ----------------------- N'Zogbia ---------------- Viduka Controversial to leave out Owen, obviously, but I just don't see how he'll fit into our system at all. He'll be a quality impact sub and will start games against the weaker teams but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him start a lot of games on the bench, even when fully fit. As I said in another thread, while Milner's individual performances are probably the best in our team soi far, his lack of pace is really, really detrimental to our team play. I'd personally like to see Milner used more in the middle and have us buy a pacier option (Anelka) to replace him as competition for the wide spots. In all honesty, though, I haven't the slightest clue what Allardyce has in mind. I'm sure there'll be slight changes depending on the differing opposition, but you have to feel that there's gonna be a core team we'll look to. Its a damning indictment on our team that your 2 first choice fullbacks, we've never seen play for us! But you're right. Is this our best XI, or what Allardyce will pick? Cos i think there may be a difference at first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 At the moment its got to be: Given Geremi Taylor Roze Enrique Smith Barton Emre Martins Milner Ameobi Butt and Zoggy are unfortunate to not get in one of those three central spots. Viduka, Duff and Owen are all big disapointments so far, so i'd give Shola a chance atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 -------------Given------------- Carr----Cacapa----Roz----Zoggy -----Geremi---Barton----Emre--- Martins-------Owen-------Milner ALL OUT ATTACK!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 --------------------Given--------------------- ?Belletti?----Taylor--Rozehnal----Enrique ---------------------?Faye?--------------------- ----------Geremi------------Barton---------- -----Martins------Viduka------N'Zogbia----- A new right back and a defensive midfielder are musts for me, although we could probably get by with Carr and Butt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 From what I've seen this season so far... yes, I'd pick Shola over Viduka right now. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Of the players currently on our books I'd probably go for Given Solano Roz Taylor Enrique Milner Geremi Barton N'Zogbia Viduka Owen Can't pick Cacapa as I don't know how good he is: on the other hand I have to pick Enrique even though I don't know how good he is. Zog shades Duff. Bench to include Harper, Cacapa, Duff, Oba and Smith/Emre. Pretty decent. Away games I'd probably bring Cacapa in for Solano and move Taylor out to right back to give us added physical presence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins that's more like it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins that's more like it The Zog has shown more ability than Duff, in fairness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If you only take into account the time they've been at the club together there's not much in it, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins that's more like it The Zog has shown more ability than Duff, in fairness. if you're using last season to judge Duff, use it for N'zogbia, both looked poor, one compounding the poor performances with an awful attitude I rate N'zogbia, but Duff has a lot more vindication in terms of ability Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ------------------ Given Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozehnal -- Enrique Milner --- Barton --- Emre --- Duff Viduka --- Martins that's more like it The Zog has shown more ability than Duff, in fairness. if you're using last season to judge Duff, use it for N'zogbia, both looked poor, one compounding the poor performances with an awful attitude I rate N'zogbia, but Duff has a lot more vindication in terms of ability Since joining us - although he has had more tiem, granted - The Zog has played better when he's played well than Duff. I fear Duff will turn into a game-picker, like a Babayaro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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