ohmelads

One of them only 16 years old. What is it with these Italian fans? Absolute cowards.

Am i reading right? Signing a loads of top class players is a bad idea? Parky was intimating that if we could sign a top class player in January we should. We arent going to have 8 top class players all wanting to sign for us. We might catch the odd one if the market is in our favour. Ruling out bringing in a player like Arshavin during January isnt good business if someone else signs him. We're struggling to stay in touch with the top 8. The defence needs to settle down, i think we have a good set of players back there and it will take a bit of time. An attacking player of high quality can make a pretty quick impact. Elano for example. I agree with that. I don't know anything about Arshavin but we should play it by ear and only go for top quality and/or youth. We don't need more squad fillers.

It's a tough one. I'm sick of the chopping and changing at first team level and yet more coming in will only cause more problems. So in that sense I agree with Mort about the defence, and I do think things will gradually get better if/when we have a settled team. Further up the pitch, where there's more room for rotation, we are lacking a bit of quality. With the squad being the size it is though, we need to be signing players who are significantly better than what we have. In a sense we did the easy part in the summer, getting bodies in, mostly mediocre but at good prices. The potential problem is that if we bring in a younger player he's not going to get sufficient games with the numbers we have in midfield and up front. He's having a hard time as it is keeping his midfielders happy, and I think this is part of the reason for some of Sam's strange lineups, formations and substitutions.

Looks a good enough player to me, but we should probably be a lot more cautious about these kinds of signings. There's usually a reason these players are getting palmed off onto us on the cheap. Babayaro came with all sorts of injury problems, Duff has arrived and looks slower than ever before and has been constantly crocked, Parker didn't make it here, Geremi has struggled for any sort of form and also looks slower than before, Smith has still got a lot to prove, Butt was awful for his first couple of years. Sometimes you do get scenarios where classy players are rotting at a big club because of an oversized squad, such as Wright-Phillips a while back, and you can make a convincing case for signing them. I think Brown would be far more exposed playing for Newcastle though. Man Utd dominate possession week in, week out and it's easier for someone like Brown to come into the side and hold his own. Up here he'll be in a weaker team and a lot more will be asked of him defensively.

Diego Maradona Zinedine Zidane Ronaldo I was young when Maradona was about but it seems wrong to leave him out. Zidane and Ronaldo are the only two players to have won been awarded world player of the year three times. While this award is far from conclusive, it shows that they maintained their performances over a number of years. Many great players such as Ronaldinho have lit up the game but have struggled to maintain such a high level of form, while others such as Henry have often failed to produce anything in the biggest games.

Good riddance. I don't like seeing N'Zogbia at left back but I'd much rather see him there than give Babayaro yet another "chance".

He was the best player on the park yesterday. He needs to start turning these performances in a lot more frequently though, inconsistency seems to be his main problem.

All Rozehnal had to do was go across and cut out the pass. He decided to take it into his stride, a luxury he clearly couldn't afford and he got punished for it. It was complacency really, he wasn't aware of what was going on around him. I'm still not convinced he's good enough, but while others are injured we have no choice but to keep him in the team. I'd rather see Beye stay at right back. Geremi was pretty awful and it's strange that he remains in the team yet Emre doesn't get a look in. I don't see what Geremi has done to merit playing every week, I realise we're not blessed with loads of quality but Emre brings more to the table in my opinion. Geremi was ducking out of challenges all game and didn't seem too sure of where he was supposed to be playing. The roar when Emre came on suggests I'm not alone in thinking he should be in the team ahead of Geremi. And I thought Geremi would be a cracking signing for us, it's not looking great so far. Perhaps Sam doesn't have the strength to drop his captain? Milner deserved the man of the match award, he was far and away the best player on the pitch and without him we'd really have struggled today. Barton was hit and miss but played some lovely balls. N'Zogbia put in an inch perfect cross but noone was running in for the open goal, we really need to be attacking the penalty box a lot more. The performance was pretty sloppy and the game hideously boring but we deserved a win and the result was so important.

I'd point at the team performance though. We didn't play great stuff but we outplayed Arsenal (imo) by profitting from their mistakes. I'm not saying Smith is the saviour by any means, but the only way I see us digging our way out of the hole we've put ourselves in in recent weeks is by playing that way. Long-term I'd rather see us playing great, flowing football, but this is the football Sam knows and as you point out Smith was reminiscent of Davies at Bolton. If we're going to go anywhere under Sam then this is the way we'll do it. Bolton didn't used to create loads of clear cut chances but it was a war of attrition with them, and we played that way yesterday. You got the feeling Arsenal couldn't weather 90 minutes of that and eventually they opened up. The fact it was Taylor who popped up is irrelevant in my eyes. I have my reservations over whether this is the kind of football that will get us right up the table but that's for another thread. At least yesterday we played a bit like Bolton used to and I've said all along I think that's what Sam is trying to create here. He always had some success against Arsenal because they like to play it out of defence. Birmingham will provide a different test, they're more built for the long ball and will be happier to sit back in numbers, in which case as you say we'll need some guile to create openings. This is the reason I'm not entirely convinced Sam's the man but at least yesterday we had a gameplan and played to it, and they actually looked like they were playing for the manager. It's one step at a time now and the pressure will be on us to play some football against Birmingham.

I don't think Viduka has the legs or the fitness record to be scoring loads of goals for us this season. And in a team struggling to supply the bullets he's a luxury we can't afford. He'll do a job as a bit-part player but we've been carrying him a lot this season in all honesty. When we don't have the ball it feels like we're down to 10 men, he does next to nothing to chase from the front and we see our midfield getting overrun. He doesn't have a reputation as a lazy forward for nothing, he's been like this throughout his career. Arsenal couldn't do that, Smith was never going to let Toure stroll up to the half way line and start attacks. They tried to play it out of their own half but we didn't let them and they resorted to punting it long or making mistakes trying to play it out. Yes, Arsenal, punting it long. Compare that to Viduka and Martins who were both lazy against Liverpool and as a result Liverpool were always on the front foot, their defenders bringing it up to halfway and creating big problems outnumbering our midfield. They didn't make mistakes at the back because they had all the time in the world. We've got to look at the team and not just the individuals. Smith will always chase defenders and when defenders don't have time they make mistakes or they launch it long, often giving possession straight back to us. Arsenal tried to play it out yesterday but we were onto them every time, no defender had time to take two touches of the ball and when they weren't making mistakes they were launching it long where Taylor and Rozehnal picked it up. This was the basis of our dominance for long periods in the second half. Smith's running around in midfield makes him look like a headless chicken, but put him up front and that weakness becomes a strength, espescially for a team like ourselves trying to fight their way out of a problem. When you're lacking quality you need fight and in recent weeks we've had neither. Smith has shown Viduka up for his laziness IMO. Thats a good post....but... How did Viduka score double figures last season for a struggling shower of smogshite? was that team more creative than our current crop? Good question. I can't deny Viduka has more class on the ball than Smith and he scores more goals, but he basically does nothing else for the team. And he's not such a great goalscorer that it'll hide his weaknesses. He'll get probably 1 in 3 if he plays every game of the season (which he won't because of injuries), but the team will have nothing up front when he disappears for large periods of a game or even for entire games. As time ticks on he's only going to get slower and less effective. I'm not suggesting Smith should be one of the first names on the teamsheet by any means, but recognising a contribution he'll make which could help us get back to playing on the front foot and forcing opposition defences into mistakes. It also keeps him out of midfield which has to be a positive

I don't think Viduka has the legs or the fitness record to be scoring loads of goals for us this season. And in a team struggling to supply the bullets he's a luxury we can't afford. He'll do a job as a bit-part player but we've been carrying him a lot this season in all honesty. When we don't have the ball it feels like we're down to 10 men, he does next to nothing to chase from the front and we see our midfield getting overrun. He doesn't have a reputation as a lazy forward for nothing, he's been like this throughout his career. Arsenal couldn't do that, Smith was never going to let Toure stroll up to the half way line and start attacks. They tried to play it out of their own half but we didn't let them and they resorted to punting it long or making mistakes trying to play it out. Yes, Arsenal, punting it long. Compare that to Viduka and Martins who were both lazy against Liverpool and as a result Liverpool were always on the front foot, their defenders bringing it up to halfway and creating big problems outnumbering our midfield. They didn't make mistakes at the back because they had all the time in the world. We've got to look at the team and not just the individuals. Smith will always chase defenders and when defenders don't have time they make mistakes or they launch it long, often giving possession straight back to us. Arsenal tried to play it out yesterday but we were onto them every time, no defender had time to take two touches of the ball and when they weren't making mistakes they were launching it long where Taylor and Rozehnal picked it up. This was the basis of our dominance for long periods in the second half. Smith's running around in midfield makes him look like a headless chicken, but put him up front and that weakness becomes a strength, espescially for a team like ourselves trying to fight their way out of a problem. When you're lacking quality you need fight and in recent weeks we've had neither. Smith has shown Viduka up for his laziness IMO.

Taylor and Faye for me. Not saying that on the back just of today's game, I've fought Taylor's corner all season. There's an excellent defender in Cacapa but I suspect his injuries were the reason we got him for nothing and an injury-prone defender isn't helpful when you're trying to build a solid back four. There's also the language barrier and the lack of Premier League experience, neither of which are a problem for Taylor and Faye. I've made my views on Rozehnal known so I won't go over it again, but I don't think he should be in the back four when everyone's fit by any means. A squad player in my eyes.

Be a bit silly to do that after one game wouldn't it? That itself would be a knee-jerk reaction to one good performance. I think play him up front or not at all is the general message for Allardyce and one he's hopefully learned.

Whilst I hate the idea of quoting myself I feel this point has been refinforced by today's game. We have to ask ourselves why teams like Liverpool make defensive errors every week yet they play us and it's a stroll in the park, they can play the ball out of defence and amble up to the halfway line unchallenged every time. Viduka and to some extent Owen and Martins haven't been pulling their weight up front this season. Smith set the tone today. His pressing in midfield has been a weakness, he leaves big gaps chasing the ball and makes rash challenges, while his lack of creative skills on the ball are exposed when he's surrounded by bodies. Put him up front and his weakness becomes a strength, he can run and challenge to his heart's content and it's all for the good for the team. Arsenal are the best passing team in the league and for periods today they couldn't play it out of their own half. To see Kolo Toure punting long balls put a smile on my face, and this wouldn't have happened if Viduka had started in Smith's place. Toure would have strolled up to the half way line, their midfield would have pushed on and we'd have found ourselves under pressure. When Viduka is playing and we don't have the ball, we're basically down to ten men and that's unacceptable. Martins today followed Smith's lead and we penned Arsenal back. I haven't seen that sort of thing here since we had Bellamy. Defending from the front is very important and it's the reason Benitez signed Bellamy and Kuyt. Neither are really Liverpool standard in terms of their on the ball ability, but they were signed for their teamwork and Smith can be that sort of player for us. For a team playing fantastic football I think Viduka would score more goals than Smith, but for a team struggling for form and lacking the creativity to put it on a plate we need to be pressing defenders into errors and we got that today.

I wouldn't say Houllier was at the point of no return, he was becoming increasingly unpopular and their form was decidedly average, but it wasn't a crisis nor an embarrassment by any means. He was moved on for the reasons you listed, some of which were stylistic. "Point of no return" implies you wait until the manager is totally indefensible and the team is in crisis, but plenty of clubs aren't prepared to wait for the inevitable to happen and take pre-emptive action. Liverpool did this with Houllier, you fail to mention that it was the same summer that we um'd and ah'd over Robson's future then waited for the inevitable - your "point of no return" at least in the board's eyes - and sacked him. Of course by then the transfer window had slammed shut, the season was well under way and we were left to take what we could get ... Graeme Souness. In short, Liverpool took pre-emptive action, they could see that things were sliding and moved Houllier on in the summer rather than wait for things to get worse. We could see things were sliding too but we waited for the inevitable and paid the price. Sacking Sam any time soon would be silly, I suspect the vast majority of fans agree on that deep down. But I think the fans are taking a longer-term view than you think. Why else would so many praise the team after a 3-1 defeat? You're pointing at results, but people interested in the long-term of the club look at performances as well. Anyone can fluke a result. They want to see that the new man in charge is moving things forward even if results haven't started arriving yet. And for the most part they've been left very disappointed. Even if results don't improve, the performances should and we saw with the Blackburn game that fans are prepared to wait and put up with poor results if they can see signs we're moving forward. Give the fans a defeat and a brave performance and they can take heart from that, give them a gutless, incompetent disgrace of a show and then have one of your players blame them for it and you will find yourself under pressure.

I think Ronaldinho's form may be a symptom of a bigger problem at Barca at the minute. When I say "problem" I mean by their and his very high standards. They're starting to remind me of the issue Real Madrid had not too long ago with their galacticos. Some people questioned the wisdom in signing Thierry Henry and it did look like the sort of signing Real Madrid would have made under Florentino Perez. Barcelona didn't really need Henry, they already had Eto'o, Messi, and Ronaldinho and two top class youngsters coming through in Giovanni and Bojan. Ronaldinho set extremely high standards two seasons ago and I don't believe he'll ever be that good again. Messi was only beginning to make a name for himself that season and slotted straight in often alternating with Giuly, while players like Eto'o and Ronaldinho were on fire and everything clicked into place. What they have now is at least as much quality at their disposal, but not the balance and teamwork they had back then. Ronaldinho revelled in his superstar status, but now his influence in the team isn't so important and he doesn't look quite as hungry any more. To play at the level he did two years ago is something few players can ever sustain and if you lose the hunger or the fire in your belly your performances will drop. There have also been one or two issues with his weight, something he would be on top of if he had the hunger and desire of two years ago. He is always going to be compared to that form which is perhaps a bit unfair, because even when he plays well people expect more. He isn't a machine and he will have off days, but people find that hard to accept and as such a huge name he becomes an easy target. Barcelona once looked like a team made for him, but now other players are stealing the limelight and you get the feeling he wants to be the heartbeat of the side. He's only been dropped for a couple of games and it's caused controversy, but he's become something of a victim of his incredible form. Edmilson probably has a point about the effects of fame and fortune, but Ronaldinho clearly still enjoys his football and if he wants to be the heartbeat of the team then a move might not be the worst thing for him.

I don't know about Birmingham but in Liverpool reds and blues walk around in their shirts all the time. It is certainly different when it's a matter of "where you come from" versus "where I come from", that sort of thing makes it a lot more serious. People's colours aren't the only thing being challenged or taken the piss out of but the very place they come from. That's probably why I saw a lot more problems between Liverpool and Man Utd than I ever did between Liverpool and Everton. When it's about colours it becomes a matter of bragging rights but when it's about your people and the place you come from it becomes a lot more tribal. Up here it's not reds and blues it's Geordies and Mackems and that's the big difference, it's about people and the place they represent. That's why the idea of having a brother from the other side would just be unthinkable to most people around here.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2007/12/03/defiant-sam-stands-firm-72703-20196520/ He says it with irony too. We're all wrong, he's right. Successful managers often make the odd eccentric decision which surprises or even confuses fans and when it comes off they are duly praised. There is a fine line though between sticking to your guns and being stubborn to the point it's detrimental to the team. To leave every onlooker baffled week after week is perhaps a sign that you've overstepped that line and I think Sam needs to take a look at himself right now. 14 games in and he still can't make his mind up on his team in any area of the pitch or even his formation, that's pretty serious. I don't think the fans are asking for a lot and I do believe most managers would have gone back to basics by now, espescially on the back of 1 point in 15 and a series of shocking performances. It seems he won't change for anyone and that kind of stubbornnes can be a major strength in people. It can also be a major weakness, and time will tell whether he's doing the right thing in ignoring the vast majority of people who just want a return to basics (wide players out wide, central players in the centre and some continuity in the team he puts out from one week to the next).

I agree mate, I've been in Liverpool for about half a dozen of their derbies and it is nothing like the hatred that is assosciated with the Tyne/Wear divide. People might see that as my bias but all I can say is go to both places and see for yourself.

I'd say the difference with the derby here (or whatever you want to call it, it's just a question of semantics) is it is more tribal. I'm not saying it is bigger, more fierce or anything like that, because to the football fan only his game matters. The thing is, we have our territory and they have theirs, the battle lines are clearly drawn if you like. You have to remember that these two old industrial cities built on adjacent rivers have competed for centuries, long before any of these football clubs were founded, and indeed supported different sides during the civil war despite only being some 10 miles apart. In Manchester and Liverpool the respective fans as you say are neighbours, workmates, even brothers. To have brothers divided like this would be very rare up here and unthinkable for most people, it would be very difficult to live with that. I get the feeling if we shared one big city it wouldn't be this way, it would be more an issue of bragging rights than the uneducated hatred that many people have. It's important to note that most of it is just banter and that a great many people do work with mackems (this historically being England's region of highest unemployment and both cities being relatively small, people have often had to go where the work is). However there isn't as much day to day teasing as I've seen between Liverpool/Everton fans for example because we don't share a city with the mackems. When we do take on sunderland a lot of the rivalry is vented on that one day.

Celtic/Rangers is nothing like it used to be. They play each other four times every year now, and there's always a good chance they'll meet in the cup as well. If you mean biggest in terms of the numbers of supporters following the game then it probably is still the biggest though.

Looks like Rozehnal could be back in central defence again. He's pulled out of position way too easily. I only caught the highlights of the Blackburn game, yet still witnessed him commit 3 or 4 basic errors which put Blackburn in goalscoring positions. He'll struggle with Arsenal's movement and Adebayor's power, if possible I'd drop him but then I don't think he should be in the back four anyway. Attack may be our best form of defence in this game, but I can see Sam going uber-defensive and trying to nick a 1-0 defeat.

It's more the lack of standing I think. In the terraces you were anonymous, all standing and squashed together, so even the shy ones would join in with the singing at the top of their voices. Now everyone is sat down and thousands of people can see you, so the shy fans who don't particularly like to sing won't be seen doing it unless everyone else is.

What sort of u-turns are you expecting?

Regardless of performances, Kluivert was off the pitch injured more often than he was on it. You can tell by his examples that Barton hasn't really thought his comments through, he's just let his mouth run.