madras

it also has to be looked at the manner of how some of the managers left (particularly in my opinion dalglish, timing was stupid and i also think he should have been given more time, and robson, again my opinion ,should have went at the end of the season before he left avoiding the again,stupid timing )

a mixture of being crap and desperatly wanting away.

uv...what about the appointmant of roeder full time ? and you could put gullit into your list.

that has been happening far too often at this club. albert was knackered,as were howey and ferdinand,ginola wanted away,beardsley was getting past it,gillespie was getting sussed...the team dalglish inerited needed more than tinkering. Ferdinand didn't want away at all. He found out that the club wanted to cash in on him, so felt unwanted. no...ferdinand was knackered. he'd started getting the back injuries that would stop him being the player he had been and we remember and from playing regulalrly. (i should have put a full stop after his name.)

that has been happening far too often at this club. albert was knackered,as were howey and ferdinand,ginola wanted away,beardsley was getting past it,gillespie was getting sussed...the team dalglish inerited needed more than tinkering.

woodgate was by far the better player, not too sure about now. colo wins by the fact the he plays. better off with an ok defender for the vast majority of games than an excellent one (if he still is) for half a season.

psv/twente/ajax treble spurs single.

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be. A year before Ashley bought the club we deserved to finish 7th, and 2 months before we deserved to be playing in Europe. what was the league position when ashley took over ?

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be. Every club?, no. A lot of them?, yes. Does the fact that a lot of clubs could say they shouldn't be where they are disclude us from being able to say it?, no. You agree that Ashley shouldn't have f***ed up in so many ways yes? You agree that if he hadn't f***ed up we wouldn't have been relegated yes? So you then agree we shouldn't be where we are.. No sure why this is even a discussion. Again nobody said the club didn't deserve to be relegated, someone just said we shouldn't have been. In simple terms he's saying that its taken massive mistakes to put the club in the position its in now and he's no happy with that, it should amaze me that its still being disagreed with but for some reason I'm not suprised. ashley shouldn't have f***ed up in so many ways ? but he did if he hadn't f***ed up we wouldn't have been relegated ? open to debate but for the sake of argument i'll go along with you. are you saying if we hadn't done what we actually done we wouldn't be where we are...isn't that like saying if we'd stuck with ardiles and not bothered with keegan we wouldn't be where we deserved to be. from the playing staff to the boardroom staff you end up where you are because of what is, not what you think should be. every club says "if" and thats all your idea is.

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be. Even the likes of Wigan? They got more points than the teams that finished in 18th, 19th and 20th so why not? This is true. Just a bit hard to see Wigan playing PL games when their fan base/history is virtually non-existant. To say it grates a bit is an understatement. The likes of Wolves and Burnley I can accept....but Wigan?? It vexes me. It's a bitch isn't it? Absolute waste of a PL place - the same with Hull. Actually misread the context of madras's comment tbh. He's actually right but it doesn't seem 'right' for Wigan to beplaying in the top flight but there you go. C'est las vie. "madras is right".....about as scary a phrase thats ever been posted on any message board in the history of tinternet. You'd be surprised how often it applies, you wily old dog. just post a lot and make sure everyone remember the few occasions when i'm right (and bury the rest)

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be. Even the likes of Wigan? They got more points than the teams that finished in 18th, 19th and 20th so why not? This is true. Just a bit hard to see Wigan playing PL games when their fan base/history is virtually non-existant. To say it grates a bit is an understatement. The likes of Wolves and Burnley I can accept....but Wigan?? It vexes me. It's a bitch isn't it? Absolute waste of a PL place - the same with Hull. Actually misread the context of madras's comment tbh. He's actually right but it doesn't seem 'right' for Wigan to beplaying in the top flight but there you go. C'est las vie. "madras is right".....about as scary a phrase thats ever been posted on any message board in the history of tinternet.

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be. Even the likes of Wigan? of course....why not ?

every club could say they shouldn't be where they are...hartlepool had they backed clough a little, huddersfield had they bought st john and someone else who's name i can't remember like shankley wanted. all clubs are where they deserve to be.

We thought the away game was going to be tough, but in the end we turned them over pretty easily. Fingers crossed for the same again. pretty easily ?

there will be....they're welsh and they know they are.

No, it was a fair reflection of club's performance over 38 games. OK. I think you're being a tad pedantic. I was insinuating that years of mis-management had considerable influence over our performance over those 38 games. and that is the type of thing which lead EVERY club to the position it finds itself in. Not at all, some clubs over achieve just to get into the Premiership and then find they can't sustain it, not through mismanagement but simply because they don't have the resources. true. thats why i said the type of thing, not "the only reason", clubs tend to be where they deserve as a culmination of all factors. to say we don't deserve to be where we are, well, even you'd agree that is crap.

7 1/2 to 1.

celtic 8.4 with 13mins left...worth £2

me too.

No, it was a fair reflection of club's performance over 38 games. OK. I think you're being a tad pedantic. I was insinuating that years of mis-management had considerable influence over our performance over those 38 games. and that is the type of thing which lead EVERY club to the position it finds itself in.

As are we all, but this mis-management started long before Mike Ashley ever came on the scene and it still doesn't excuse the belief of a divine right to be in the Premier League. But who says it does excuse that though? You're just using straw man tactics, making up reasons why I'm annoyed about something. You were the one saying we didn't deserve to be where we were. I am not making that up. That doesn't equate to a divine right complex. It means I'm annoyed about mis-management. if its mismanagement that has us where we are then thats where we deserve to be.

yip. since about 2004 it's been really,really bad.

turnover aye......i wonder how many clubs ran up bigger debts at the same time ?

bloody important at old trafford aswell.