Wullie

I'd still gladly swap it for everything we've seen since. UEFA Cup football didn't help us that year at all, especially in regards to the Wolves game. If anything it was the UEFA Cup that kept our season going imo. I'd still take that season every year, and I mean EVERY YEAR. We finished 5th place and up until a week before the end of the season, we were inches from getting 4th place. The UEFA Cup was nowt in comparison. This is what I've never got. How anyone can say we underachieved in 03/04. Nearly 4th place, and UEFA Cup Semi Final. That's a fucking success to me. We were very poor at times though, especially away from home, that's undeniable. We threw tons of points away that season, at one point we seemed to be conceding a last minute equaliser every week (I remember John, Stead and fucking Lua Lua in very quick succession) - at least something's not changed, right down to the ex-player.

I'd still gladly swap it for everything we've seen since. UEFA Cup football didn't help us that year at all, especially in regards to the Wolves game. If anything it was the UEFA Cup that kept our season going imo. All the fixture changes, the jetlag from playing Thursday-Sunday all the time, something was just lost completely since the Partizan game, the magic had gone. That's the pinpoint of when it started going wrong for me. Can't remember Souness being allowed this excuse mind, plus we had an FA Cup run thrown into the mix too. He finished nine places lower though.

The stats don't say anything because we're talking about a certain situation, one where we're desperately trying to hang onto a lead and the best way to do that is not allow the opposition backline to move up onto the halfway line. You're right in that of course it's not the only reason but it's a major factor. It's not simply a case of who scores at certain times and after coming on or whatever - in the last ten minutes when you desperately need a goal, there aren't many players I'd rather have than Michael Owen (see Wigan) but that is not the case here. Why is he leaving a specialist poacher on when he clearly has no interest in scoring another goal? Just looking at stats and goals doesn't tell you anything about how much fear Martins' presence alone puts into a defence (especially one like Stoke's - hardly blessed with pace) and stops them playing a high line, no matter how he's performing on the day. Kinnear shouldn't be trying to defend these leads at all but in taking Martins off, he's shooting himself in the foot because it makes it harder to defend such a lead. He'd gone off when Man City equalised btw.

Why would you want the Spuds to win? What are you desperate for exactly? West Ham are far more likely to be deep in relegation bother than Spurs are.

We'll get our arse kicked.

If anyone, I'd prefer the Yids to win. That's how fucking desperate I am.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7771921.stm

Play the three ffs. Grow a spine Joe.

I've always maintained that it was Mike Ashley's complete misunderstanding of how football works and the importance of a manager that led to the Keegan situation. He was naive enough to believe that the squad quality is more important than the man in charge and he had Dennis Wise in his ear (standing on a crate obviously) telling him that the squad was brilliant and any manager could do well with them - big mistake.

What good is that though when that said striker can't keep the ball with his pace. If we were talking about Bellamy, or even Dyer, I'd totally agree, because they could run and keep the ball, giving it to a team mate more often than not, Martins isn't like that imo. I have no problem whatsoever with Owen & Viduka up top at any particular time. It's good in that it forces the opposition to sit much deeper and commit less men forward? Oba's scored at least two goals for us by running the entire length of the field in the late stages against opposition trying to get into the game. I'd reckon we've scored more late goals from an Owen header or tap-in mind. We've had 3 this season alone. I'm as critical as any against Kinnear, but I don't think Kinnear is the only manager who'd be making the Viduka for Martins substitution. You're right, Allardyce did it at Chelsea in another pathetic display of fear last season and it ultimately cost us the game. I don't know if you were there on Saturday but the chance of an Owen header or tap-in in the second half was nil. We barely got out of our half. And that was the case even before Martins went off. But Stoke pushed right up and battered us more. Alright then why do you think Viduka and Owen was the right pairing with Stoke defending on the halfway line, one of our pacemen neutralised in central midfield, no threat or pace down the right, two of the slowest strikers in the league up front and the only person winning even 1% of headers sat back on the bench?

Oh man.

What good is that though when that said striker can't keep the ball with his pace. If we were talking about Bellamy, or even Dyer, I'd totally agree, because they could run and keep the ball, giving it to a team mate more often than not, Martins isn't like that imo. I have no problem whatsoever with Owen & Viduka up top at any particular time. It's good in that it forces the opposition to sit much deeper and commit less men forward? Oba's scored at least two goals for us by running the entire length of the field in the late stages against opposition trying to get into the game. I'd reckon we've scored more late goals from an Owen header or tap-in mind. We've had 3 this season alone. I'm as critical as any against Kinnear, but I don't think Kinnear is the only manager who'd be making the Viduka for Martins substitution. You're right, Allardyce did it at Chelsea in another pathetic display of fear last season and it ultimately cost us the game. I don't know if you were there on Saturday but the chance of an Owen header or tap-in in the second half was nil. We barely got out of our half.

What good is that though when that said striker can't keep the ball with his pace. If we were talking about Bellamy, or even Dyer, I'd totally agree, because they could run and keep the ball, giving it to a team mate more often than not, Martins isn't like that imo. I have no problem whatsoever with Owen & Viduka up top at any particular time. It's good in that it forces the opposition to sit much deeper and commit less men forward? Oba's scored at least two goals for us by running the entire length of the field in the late stages against opposition trying to get into the game.

It's absolutely infuriating. Obviously it's not the only reason and no-one claims that Oba is perfect but his presence alone forces teams to defend a good 10-20 yards deeper as opposed to the one-paced Owen and even-less-paced Viduka. Taking him off is basically an invite to come at us without needing to worry about defending. Quite why so many managers don't understand the simple concept of the best form of defence being attack is beyond me.

Quality.

Everton. mackems.gif

At least Ashley doesn't have those pints then drive home.

It's a pace/strength combo he struggles against - I raised the concern after Cole at West Ham but felt he had improved and "got over it". The first goal proved he's still vulnerable to it. Defender gets caught out shocker. The fact that you've got to go back nearly 3 months for the last time he got caught out in a similar situation means that it doesn't happen very often. Henri Camara did him in the last home game. Definitely struggles against pace.

Just words. He'll take us down, an eventuality that looked nailed on from the start and even moreso now. Fuck all we can do either way.

I think he's the main man. Before the Boro game, he took the other three aside and was giving them instructions and encouragement.

Which ones? I was thinking Man City, West Brom (first half) and Villa. So three home games basically. Man City was a decent result (despite the fact we chucked it away again) but we created no real chances. Against Villa we were lucky to take the lead in the second half so Joe had no chance to tell the players to shit themselves.

Which ones? I was thinking Man City, West Brom (first half) and Villa. If you're going to count West Brom, you have to count today because we were as good in the first half as we've been all season.

Which ones?

You've not exactly filled me with confidence there. I don't expect anything from those four games.