BottledDog

Do you care more about the player than the badge? I couldn't give a toss about whether we teach him a lesson to make him regret his actions, all I care about is how it affects the club. Leave the people in the know to decide what happens, let Hughton and Ashley weigh up the situation without all these unfounded crys of moral outrage. If they feel that it's best to keep in in house and he stays, i'll be delighted. Why hope for the worst?

Yer wha? I like to play the "media hate us" card as much as the next guy but Look North dedicate hours to us and seconds to the Mackems. Soooo... pretty much like your average Sunderland supporter then.

We've no idea what happened, so God knows why people feel they need to jump on their moral high horses and call for heads to roll (metaphorically speaking). It's down to Taylor, Carroll, the staff and players, the club, and if it comes to it, the law. Whatever is decided is good for me, if that means Carroll stays, then that's great.

FYP and Like it. djmattis what's up with the upper part? The tassles are kick ass!

True, but I think it's hard not to accept that much of the reason for that was that without the balance of two fit wingers he was easier to neutralise while the majority of the defenders focus was on him. Absolutely, I said when Routledge signed that we'd see Jonas thrive. That said, as daft lad has just mentioned, there was no excuse for not having Guthrie in the middle and using his range of passing to create opportunities. I too was clamouring for Guthrie to get his chance centrally quicker than he did, but could understand his reticence up to a point. I guess it boiled down to who we could stick on the right, Pancrate is hit and miss at best, and beyond that we're struggling without Routledge.

True, but I think it's hard not to accept that much of the reason for that was that without the balance of two fit wingers he was easier to neutralise while the majority of the defenders focus was on him.

Newcastle - 97 West Brom - 93 /toes and that crossed etc.

You're making him out to have only just discovered this magical new tictac. Hughton presumably went for Routledge to allow us to more effectively do just that, no?

Fernando Alexandre has emerged as a target for Newcastle United. "...But at the moment I am fighting hard for Leixoes - but it is always good clubs such as Newcastle are looking at you, it is flattering." http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11678_6046357,00.html Anyone have a clue about him?

Why, because the pricks at Old Trafford or the Camp Nou wouldn't do it? Nowt wrong with a pitch invasion to celebrate going up. We did it at Grimsby and it'll happen at Plymouth or Reading or wherever. Can't wait to see the threads appear on here from all the lads sat at their monitors in all their dignified glory. It's got nowt to do with Man United man. We haven't achieved anything - it's those arrogant pricks' faults we're down here in the first place - celebrating the fact we're going back to where we should never have left in the first place is stupid. Not that weve even done it yet but what? Seriously? Fuck this hanging on to past glories or not giving a shit because 'we deserve to be up there', I'll be fucking ecstatic if we win promotion.

He's only had almost 3 years, how much longer does he need? well hasnt he been tolerable this season, major fuckups not really around willing to spend cash in jan to ensure promotion if llambias could f*** off everything would be fine I’d say the renaming of the ground was a f*** up, as was starting season without a permanent manager. The meagre spend in January is given far too much credit. Ashley spent the absolute bare minimum he thought he could get away with to cover any possible injuries problems. When we were looking good for promotion under KK the board went out and spent serious money on Andy Cole, who went on to serve us well in the PL until he was sold for a 400% profit. This time we went out and bought Best for next to nought, we couldn’t even compete with Wigan for Moses. Or, looked at without the gosh-how-I-miss-my-Fweddie glasses on, during that transfer window we were probably the most active club in the top two divisions in terms of getting players in. I think you’ll find SJH was in charge of the purse strings last time we went up. Not that it matters, my point was (until you tried to turn this into another debate about Shepherd, you’re obsessed with him) that the investment in January wasn’t the big w*** fest it’s frequently made out to be. all people said was that we bought well, not that it was the best window ever. you'll rememebr in that summer under hall many weren't happy that our only signing was beardsley (allen only coming in because of beardsleys injury) No, it’s put forward as evidence that he’s learnt from his mistakes. When in fact it could just as easily be another variation on the short sighted minimum investment policy that got us relegated. The failure to land Moses is interesting. A highly rated young player who Hughton said we were after who ended up at Wigan. Was it the £2.5m price tag that scuppered our attempt to sign him, or was he attracted by the bright lights of Wigan? Or perhaps we couldn’t match the wages Wigan were offering. Whichever way you look at it looks like NUFC weren’t interested in building for next season. yes the moses thing was ineteresting...perhaps they didn't want to pay what they considered to be over the odds (like most every other prem team bar wigan) Or perhaps they aren’t prepared to pay the market rate and we will only sign players our competitors in the PL aren’t interested in. Hughton himself said ‘our efforts to sign Moses is a combination for now and the future. The most important thing is to get promoted, but there has also been an eye on the future’. And then our eye on the future was scuppered by Wigan and their outrageous wage structure. If we can't compete with big spending Wigan the quality of player we bring in is unlikely to move the club forward. We’ll get promoted and that will be the end of our progress - which some will no doubt find highly amusing. or maybe he just wanted too much. even if its wigan if someone wants more than you think they are worth you don't do it. At the end of the day Wigan got Moses and we got Best. A million maybes doesn’t change that, or what happens on the pitch. This season has been a great example of how wages influence results. How Hughton would have fared if he’d had to operate within Scunthorpe’s wage structure we’ll never know, but it’s looking like we find out how good he is at managing the division’s poor relations over the next few years. do you know if best or moses are on the bigger wage ? as for the rest it'll make a change to underperforming at an unmanagable wage structure.......................unless of course you think the banks would have let us borrow more ? are you happy that Wigan are buying better players than we are ? Since when has a 2nd division team been able to turn heads and hold its own against a top division side on transfers. It's delusional to think we had a chance once the Premiership sides got involved.

He's only had almost 3 years, how much longer does he need? well hasnt he been tolerable this season, major fuckups not really around willing to spend cash in jan to ensure promotion if llambias could f*** off everything would be fine I’d say the renaming of the ground was a f*** up, as was starting season without a permanent manager. The meagre spend in January is given far too much credit. Ashley spent the absolute bare minimum he thought he could get away with to cover any possible injuries problems. When we were looking good for promotion under KK the board went out and spent serious money on Andy Cole, who went on to serve us well in the PL until he was sold for a 400% profit. This time we went out and bought Best for next to nought, we couldn’t even compete with Wigan for Moses. Or, looked at without the gosh-how-I-miss-my-Fweddie glasses on, during that transfer window we were probably the most active club in the top two divisions in terms of getting players in. I think you’ll find SJH was in charge of the purse strings last time we went up. Not that it matters, my point was (until you tried to turn this into another debate about Shepherd, you’re obsessed with him) that the investment in January wasn’t the big w*** fest it’s frequently made out to be. all people said was that we bought well, not that it was the best window ever. you'll rememebr in that summer under hall many weren't happy that our only signing was beardsley (allen only coming in because of beardsleys injury) No, it’s put forward as evidence that he’s learnt from his mistakes. When in fact it could just as easily be another variation on the short sighted minimum investment policy that got us relegated. The failure to land Moses is interesting. A highly rated young player who Hughton said we were after who ended up at Wigan. Was it the £2.5m price tag that scuppered our attempt to sign him, or was he attracted by the bright lights of Wigan? Or perhaps we couldn’t match the wages Wigan were offering. Whichever way you look at it looks like NUFC weren’t interested in building for next season. yes the moses thing was ineteresting...perhaps they didn't want to pay what they considered to be over the odds (like most every other prem team bar wigan) Or perhaps they aren’t prepared to pay the market rate and we will only sign players our competitors in the PL aren’t interested in. Hughton himself said ‘our efforts to sign Moses is a combination for now and the future. The most important thing is to get promoted, but there has also been an eye on the future’. And then our eye on the future was scuppered by Wigan and their outrageous wage structure. If we can't compete with big spending Wigan the quality of player we bring in is unlikely to move the club forward. We’ll get promoted and that will be the end of our progress - which some will no doubt find highly amusing. or maybe he just wanted too much. even if its wigan if someone wants more than you think they are worth you don't do it. At the end of the day Wigan got Moses and we got Best. A million maybes doesn’t change that, or what happens on the pitch. This season has been a great example of how wages influence results. How Hughton would have fared if he’d had to operate within Scunthorpe’s wage structure we’ll never know, but it’s looking like we find out how good he is at managing the division’s poor relations over the next few years. do you know if best or moses are on the bigger wage ? as for the rest it'll make a change to underperforming at an unmanagable wage structure.......................unless of course you think the banks would have let us borrow more ? are you happy that Wigan are buying better players than we are ? Since when has a 2nd division team been able to turn heads and hold its own against a top division side on transfers. It's delusional to think we had a chance once the Premiership sides got involved.

Christ, Scunthorpe have only won 3 games less than Boro. Thank fuck we have an owner taking us in the right direction compared to Gibson. What the fuck happened to him then?

Maybe he's not been the best so far (and might never be a great and simply gets sold on for little loss in the summer), but come on. There's never any need for any of this vitriolic shite spouted towards our own players.

Fuck. Off.

Fuck Dorrans, fuck Miller, fuck Brom.

What a fucking surprise. Spawny West Brom Cnuts.

We'll slip up; a sending off and well go down 0-2. ....but wait, the ref evens it up by sending their keeper off, and a Enrique hat trick sees us grab a late 3-2 win. COOOOOOMON!!!

Fine... but is Mike Ashley now steering Newcastle United in the right direction?

Totally agree. We should aim for achievable goals. Even if Ashley did want to sell the club he couldn't. The fans ire should be direted at Desmond Decker. Show that he's less popular than Ashley and give him the opportunity to use him as a scapegoat. I'm sure Uncle Dekka is doing a craking job behind the scenes, but unfortunately he has just got one of those eminently slappable faces. Achievable aim number one for me has to be - Stop opening your gob whining on about things you can only change when we see progress over years, not months. /If even that's to much to ask, at least get shot of the photochromatic lenses ffs.

You sound resigned, as if Asley will keep him on no matter what (rather than the more logical idea that he has grown into the job and deserves it), but you have the power to change things. If all the people who want a 'proper' manager in get their protesting chops in gear, I'm sure he'd be gone soon enough.

Tell me I've just read that wrong and you didn't say that we're playing better football than the last time we were promoted under keegan. Correct me if i'm wrong but haven't we got more points under Hughton at this stage than Keegan. Of course you know which football i would prefer to see. Forgive me Mick, i'm in clever arse mode. Better, in my mind mean's more effective, not more attractive. For example Arsenal play more attractive football than Chelsea but it's probably not better. because we have more points doesn't even mean we were more effective. keegans promotion team dominated games in a way this team hasn't/couldn't. this team has picked up a lot of points in games where we couldn't have argued with a point. plus keegans team could have competed well in the prem, this team would be at best in a relegation fight. So you're effectively saying Hughton is doing better than Keegan with a far worse team? The man is a GOD!

No, because we'd been battered enough at that point to have shed the devine righter atitude prevalent this time around. Do you believe we as fans have a divine righter attitude though? or are we not just expecting higher standards than last season? At the moment I think a fair few do, that is why I asked Midds whether, if we were stuck down in the lower leagues for a few years or more, would it make any difference to him feeling weird celebrating promotion. He said it wouldn't which surprised me. I think there is the feeling that we deserve to be in the premiership and that in regards to Hughton, he, his staff, and the players maybe don't deserve much of the credit for it. I just don't see it that way. We could have easily decimated the squad, fucked around with managers and buggered it up like Boro, or worse. I think Hughton and the players have done a tremendous job so far this season tbh.

No, because we'd been battered enough at that point to have shed the devine righter atitude prevalent this time around.

:mackems: :mackems: Went for Colo and Jose on the poll, but could probs have gone for Loven on recent form.... ...But, come on. Why the shock? I'm not just playing devils advocate here, it's probably fair, he deserves it. One of the senior players that has, besides all the goals, been instrumental in the team pulling together and moving in the right direction both on and off the pitch this season.