James

Go, Go, Go!

I seem to remember two substitutes against Everton.

Its going to be one of those days. The crowd must really be going now though.

Yes!

Come on!

How have we been playing?

Anyone else having problems with World?

ORANGE BIBS UPDATE: I haven't a clue.

Robert has to take the blame for how his career went down the pan post-Robson. He owes a lot to Sir Bobby, who spotted that Robert had something special that would complement Shearer, and turn a blind eye to all that was bad about him - all of course a benefit to both club and player.

Sorry James but you are completely missing the point. This thread is about Martins being thick as mince, so long term doesn't address the problem wh have now. Your suggestion of Owen alongside Smith is great...surely Sam needs to be sacked for not realising this and starting him on Wednesday? The only solution would have been to have signed Anelka last month tbh. I'm merely pointing out that what makes Martins 'as thick as mince' ie his inability to anticipate and run into the penalty area means that other players make a better partneship and that we need to sign someone else to have a good partnership that involves Martins. BTW, I don't think Sam could have started Owen on Wednesday, and I dont think he could have signed Anelka last month either.

It was a big, big mistake of Roeder to sign Martins, Rossi and Sibierski last summer to replace Shearer, Shola and Owen mind, as these were all second/supporting strikers and we completely lacked an alpha striker, and we are still sufferring for it now. Even chasing Kuyt was a mistake for he was another secondary striker. Good thing Martins is a very good supporting striker mind, otherwise instead of scoring a lot less goals due to having no players attacking the box, we'd have scored no goals at all and then got relegated.

I always get the impression that those out there that hype up and over rate Martins are either younger or from abroad. For my part, I'd say Martins is a good player with good abilities who can bring some good to the team. He's not going to form an effective partnership with any of our strikers. Owen, Martins and Smith are all No. 10 strikers, while Viduka has been very slow so far and has rarely got into No. 9 positions. The best possible striking partnership is when there is someone doing the hard physical work and scoring goals, while someone else feeds off scraps created by others to score, while helping the team out on the deck by moving out to wide areas. I cant really say any of our players fully fulfil any of these roles apart from Owen who showed (ironically in an England game) that he can still be an excellent No. 10 in the right team. Martins and Smith will never be a successful partnership as these are two No. 10's whose worstattributes are that they don't get in the box enough to score goals and put the opposition defence under pressure. As mentioned, Viduka seems too slow at the moment, and gets left behind, so he cant properly fulfil the No. 9 role. Thus the team needs someone else to come in and play the No. 9 role. It cant be Martins, as although strong, he isn't suited to the ball winning role the No. 9 requires and doesn't make runs into the box. Long term, we should look to sign an effective No. 9 striker as someone Martins, Owen and Smith would have to battle over playing alongside. For now though, we are asking for a No. 10 striker adapt their game to compensate our lacking of a No. 9. For that, Owen can provide the goals and Smith can play the more physical ball winning role.

Its a point, but its pretty much been covered in about four or five threads already, giving that as a reason why Smith and Martins shouldn't be a long term partnership.

On 1st January, Wesley Ngo Baheng joins.

Dave really is a human encyclopedia

I thought Adebeyor looked for it to be honest. Yes, Beye did lean in a little, but Adebayor had probably moved about a metre or two across before hand, when he would have been closer to the ball if he had kept going in a straight line. Arsenal's players still cheat when they know they haven't got a hope in hell.

That video really needed Peter Kay to walk on and hoof the ball off screen.

Maybe there was some difference between what Sam meant when he says to 'keep it tight', and what the players understood. After all, when Roeder said 'keep it tight' it meant sitting back, leave the strikers isolated and hope the opposition dont score.

Yes they have.

Martins has pace, good shooting ability, and an infinitely higher work rate than Owen. He's also shown he can play down the flanks to a moderately decent degree. Owen on the other hand is slow, hardly in the game, and only wants to play in a central position, which is where Smith does his best work. Itd cause Smith to either drop very deep or play wide, neither of which makes Smith as effective as when hes up front causing problems for a centreback. As a partnership, Owen + Smith would have no pace in it. Martins never attacks the ball, and unless he can be taught, he isn't the answer. Owen can attack the ball, and as for your description of what Owen cant do, that is completely blown out of the water by his performance against Russia at Wembley, when he did all of these things. By all means replace Owen with someone like Anelka, but Smith and Martins just wont get goals, and we'll be relying on the likes of Milner, N'Zogbia, Taylor, Barton, Butt and Geremi for our goals.

Not Smith's fault that there was no-one playing off his shoulder.The only real time there was someone off his shoulder was for the goal. Stick Owen next to Smith and watch the goals fly in.

I thought this thread was meant to be a nice positive thread about Habib Beye and how brilliant he is?

This post is going to cause several on here to want to fish slap me into a canal, but stick Smith next to Owen and we will score a bucket load. Martins just doesn't offer the threat of Owen or the link up play of Smith.

He needed oxygen after his first match. The club has clearly put a lot of effort in getting his fitness levels up, and it is reaping the rewards, as he was a quality player before he joined us. Imagine if he had joined under Souness, Roeder or even Shearer. He'd be on the scrap heap now - another highly rated player who has come here to flop for the money. This is why Allardyce is a level above those we've had or could have, and why we should give him the time he deserves.