80

:mackems:

I've almost started to assume the opposite of what he says will happen.

Must be dropped. Gone past the point of showing confidence. Simpson's back and apparently looking good. Even for the player's sake, it's only about protecting whatever reputation he has got - need to stop fans' embarrassment turning to anger. Even if Hughton's convinced he's gonna be world class in the future, he's not gonna be in the next 10 games, so should wait for another opportunity to play him...

I read the poll as being a vote of confidence so couldn't go either way as I don't feel strongly enough at this point one way or the other. Aye, but that's kind of it - an attitude thing. Rare that anything's certain so you have to push yourself to be decisive on a call... You say he hasn't lost you yet so going on that I'd guess you ought to be in the yes camp. I've have concerns sometimes too, obviously, but you just have to swallow them until you're convinced someone must go because having doubts obviously hanging around only makes things worse if anything. Self-fulfilling prophecies, kind of thing.

Surely being unsure about someone is the very definition of not having faith in them... Went for yes. Stand strong and all that. Too much good to just ignore.

The players can be as determined as they like, but if they can't win home games they are not good enough - determination is great but without the necessary skills it is useless. Cream always rises to the top.... Yeah, but that would be a criticism of the players... Hughton can only work the players he has. And it seems he is relatively good at getting better ones. Serious question, who do we think we could get in who'd be an improvement at the moment? Also, maybe more importantly, who do we think we WOULD get in bearing in mind Llambias and Ashley manage us? All things considered, I think I'm inclined to stick... Think there's something to be said for junkhead's attitude. Not saying this is definitely the case, only that it's possible, but it might even be best that we stick with Hughton if we get relegated - if he can/we let him retain his authority, keep running the club the way he wants to etc. with a view to ultimately being better off, as I think he could get us promoted again if we did go down yet again, while still improving things behind the scenes even though things are bad on the pitch. Again, the reason I say this is that I'm scared of who else might come in after him bearing in mind who'd get to decide - things could end up being a lot worse. On a semi-related note, I think too many young, potentially decent managers are booted so soon as a relegation takes place. Stupid the way someone can unexpectedly get a club promoted twice in two seasons and then as soon as they go down from the Premiership they become s***. It's not as though the club's often end up returning thanks to such a decision, after all... Not on the wind up but how do you know things are improving behind the scenes? Any of our Premier League teams before we got relegated would have walked the Championship last year and it would have looked like they too had great team spirit and everything was great behind the scenes. Is it not just the case that we have a lot of very average players who know they'll never be any where better than Newcastle, indeed they probably count their lucky stars that they are playing for the club. Also a sign of how far our standards have dropped that their is not discontent in the camp after two miserable home defeats. I don't just mean the attitude within the squad, and I accept stuff about hard times being when things come to the fore. But by any standards we can judge by, things seem to be a lot better than they have been for a long time. I'm talking about scouting, player development (we've seen players IMPROVE/DEVELOP in the last 18 months, not stay the same or get worse, which hasn't been the case since Robson if not earlier - also fielding decent looking kids in the League Cup etc.), yes morale, but also discipline - even when things were good, or at least good by our standards, we still managed to fit a few gang rape headlines in amidst the success. Important point, and again something demonstrable that I think Hughton can take credit for - I don't just mean discipline in terms of players not hitting each other () but the way he/we managed to shut down the story, prevent leaks, and have it essentially forgotten about within a few days. His interviews make Alan Shearer look like Graham Norton, and that's a talent we've needed and probably will need for a while to come... There's other stuff I could mention, but surely you can see the gist of my point? Stability mixed with some talent - the idea that we can relax and have patience because in every transfer window gone by he appears to have shown he agrees with us about the weaknesses of the team and seems to have good ideas about who we could get to fix them. If he keeps managing to replace Smiths with Tiotes, you'd like to think in another couple of years he'll get his substitutions right... Another point - can be argued that thing's only looked successful and easy last year because of his work behind the scenes... We were staring at some deep dark shit last year. And who knows what ugly stuff might have crept up during the season but never did because of things we never found out about. Stopping stuff before it starts, making it look like the club and he have been on easy street - again, a hell of a talent which he might just have. Time will tell.

The players can be as determined as they like, but if they can't win home games they are not good enough - determination is great but without the necessary skills it is useless. Cream always rises to the top.... Yeah, but that would be a criticism of the players... Hughton can only work the players he has. And it seems he is relatively good at getting better ones. Serious question, who do we think we could get in who'd be an improvement at the moment? Also, maybe more importantly, who do we think we WOULD get in bearing in mind Llambias and Ashley manage us? All things considered, I think I'm inclined to stick... Think there's something to be said for junkhead's attitude. Not saying this is definitely the case, only that it's possible, but it might even be best that we stick with Hughton if we get relegated - if he can/we let him retain his authority, keep running the club the way he wants to etc. with a view to ultimately being better off, as I think he could get us promoted again if we did go down yet again, while still improving things behind the scenes even though things are bad on the pitch. Again, the reason I say this is that I'm scared of who else might come in after him bearing in mind who'd get to decide - things could end up being a lot worse. On a semi-related note, I think too many young, potentially decent managers are booted so soon as a relegation takes place. Stupid the way someone can unexpectedly get a club promoted twice in two seasons and then as soon as they go down from the Premiership they become shit. It's not as though the club's often end up returning thanks to such a decision, after all...

More comfortable is the way I'd put it. Our form has been more promising than the alternative of beating rivals and losing when we're expected to, lets us have bigger ideas about the future, but if we'd emphatically smashed Stoke and Wolves instead, I'd probably feel it was less likely we're gonna nosedive at some point in the season. It would promise less in the short/medium term, but feel more reliable. At the moment, you have to worry we'll keep picking up losses in 6 pointers and help our rivals, but at some time forget how to beat the big teams or run out of luck against them or whatever the pessimistic slant would be that you'd want to put on our victories. We'll only know at the end of the season that we can keep doing what we've been doing - and if we can and do, then it'll be time for a big inquest into just why we're like that...

I don't understand this comment...

To be fair to Lineker, he's not supposed to express opinions. He's there to present the show and direct the conversation. True to an extent, yeah, although a good host can pull off both I'd say. But yeah, he just came to mind as he obviously does have thoughts on things, and they still leak out occasionally (especially on Eriksson...), but he and admittedly more importantly the others bottled up when the FA got uppity.

Character is a big part of the problem here. I don't agree that it's having ex-pros that is the problem, just that they're the wrong ex-pros. Need a vanguard of brave and independent-minded speakers (I reckon Di Canio, Cantona and Cole are good shouts just for starters, by the way), then the more cowardly ones who secretly do have proper opinions but have been scared off for personal professional reasons in the past (Linekar etc.) can follow in their wake. The genuinely dumb can just fuck off, of course.

1,000% Rather blood Krul. Would be utterly insane not to. If we don't now, when will we?

I think that's the idea, would probably be a mistake otherwise.

Keegan's times here are what still see people like Ben Arfa talking about our club, its fans, reputation and history like it means something. Given how little he achieved in terms of silverware, as well as all the bollocks we've endured since 1997, that's impressive.

That is quite cool. This one I'll give him.

Must have been, he has been with her since he was about 14 and I am fairly sure he wasn't knocking off old grannies at that point Am I not right that they got together after he made his first team debut for Everton? Seem to remember papers laughing about him being into some girl (i.e. her) but her not being so up for it... until he became famous, at least. Edit - looks like I'm right, 2002 aged 16/17. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Rooney http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rooney So yeah, always held that against her, as even if she isn't naturally great, by her own choice she'd be obviously out of his league if he couldn't kick a ball.

Funny he should be mentioned just after I referred to him. As I said at the time, don't really know for sure, but if all parties are satisfied then I'd be happy for him to come back.

He was better than Terry ever has been, not even a debate to be had if he'd played consistently.

Any preference who do you want in, Brummie? To be entirely honest, I find it hard to choose who I'd prefer, it changes every day as new names are mentioned. The betting market on this has been insane. However, I know who I don't want: Curbishley, Southgate, Bradley, McDonald. There are some I'd accept: Svennis, Houllier. Interesting to see you wouldn't mind Sven. I remember when he was linked with the Newcastle job and I thought noooooooooooooo! I thought the same (and still do), but the reason I think he might also be a decent move for Villa is all about context. Given who their other choices are at this time, and given who their choices might be at the end of the season, bringing Sven in doesn't seem such a bad move - he's got some qualities as a manager and he's a total mercenary. I'm sure it can be arranged so that he won't have a huge long contract and he isn't the kind of guy to try and set up a 'system' at the club and seriously demand three seasons before success comes. Basically, he can be an impact signing. Willing to turn up and do a decent job but not too hard to fuck off once you want a better long term appointment. I have similar (though a bit less hostile) feelings about Houllier.

Not a fan of his, but all things considered, a good move (depending on how all this is intended to work, of course).

To one degree or another I think this situation with extra kids on top of squads was thought and about planned for - Arsenal are being rewarded for developing/stealing youth. Well done them - better than Man City just flopping out wads for 30 year olds, no? This will encourage a better England team and/or weaken the other leagues of the world if we think we have enough strength as a league to take their kids. It's ok if you disagree with the actual reasons behind this new rule, but stuff like Arsenal being well off is no accident.

Wouldn't be surprised if he made a handy foil for Carroll. Was made to think of saying this last night when Dave listed him as a 'Striker' and not a 'Second Forward' in his squad thread. Arguably his single biggest problem is putting the ball in the net, but we know he's able and willing to run around, has skill and at least some awareness of his other team mates. I admit I haven't seen that much of him compared to reserve watchers etc. but he seems to get unwarranted stick to me (on field - no comment on off field). Plenty of grounds for optimism in my view.

Not ideal, but Lua Lua speaks French and Vukic might be Muslim given his Bosnian background... hopefully they can learn a few skills in time to come. That Swedish-Bosnian Goalie we're apparently due to sign, too. I've got some vague idea that Sol Campbell knows French actually - seem to remember it being given as evidence for him being gay.

Teamwork required. Will be very happy if Barton knows to let someone else have the pleasure for him. If he did too good a job, we could be looking at a 9 game ban or something, headlines for months.

Somehow or other our backroom (Hughton? Nolan? Smith?) seem to have done a remarkable job on getting things in line. One reason why I'm not as sure as others that I want the latter two to leave. Anyway, I'm optimistic that this could end up being a good move for Ben Arfa himself, the moment some big changes take place in his career - going on that good write up about his historic lack of effort, concentration on tactics etc. We seem to marry up pretty well given our new comradely approach (which still has momentum in it, I think - I don't think Ben Arfa is going to detract from the way we now work, he'll either be improved or we'll go our separate ways but I feel our recent gains are secure overall at the moment). I think even Barton could be a big help - found that little rebuttal Ben Arfa gave in response to French criticism of him interesting, yet another opportunity for the whole club to unite in adversity. Still can't feel totally confident in Barton insofar as it's when it goes quiet that awful things have happened in the past - just time that's gonna prove that one, but I'd say the odds are better than ever before, and he's always been able to speak well - so even if he can't follow his own advice, maybe Ben Arfa can. This is something that could maybe be spoken about at greater length elsewhere, but seeing as there's been a lot of talk in this thread about Nolan's position in the team and as captain, I don't think we have to fear the likely ramifications too much. Going on what has been said by and about him and Smith, they in particular seem to have taken on the club as a project - one of restoring the position of everyone associated with NUFC. Nolan pretty much said it himself mid-way through last season, they didn't just think fuck the press, they even said fuck the Board - that they were on the pitch and could and would do their bit regardless of what idiocy was taking place in the upper echelons. That they're taking personal pride and responsibility in the club as a whole, that they'll sacrifice their selves for the good of the cause, and receive personal gratification from the resultant success and their part in it. The result is absolutely fantastic for the club, we've got a self-regulating squad - something we've not had for a long time and that, if well-cultivated, could literally set this club up for generations to come (in footballing terms). We may able to move up the quality scale while retaining the psychological ethos we have now by having it pass through new signings, and this lot can be considered the founders of that. Big if, of course - requires good and stable governance from the manager, players and club administrators in general. Given how entrenched the guy seems to be as leader, I think Nolan can be a credible, successful club captain even if he's far from being a regular starter. Smith, meanwhile... again, he virtually said it himself a while back, given his physical state, he has to look at his career in a different way to the average player. He's a tea-totaller who doesn't seem obsessed with money and likes to be part of a team, - I wouldn't be totally surprised if he took significant personal wage/play cuts to remain part of this project of his. I imagine it might more satisfying to him than ambling through a few extra games in his dotage and making a fairly ephemeral contribution to Rangers or Leeds or someone. I don't wanna go over the top with what I'm saying here, Nolan especially may feel he's got a career to take care of - his stamina's deceptive but he really isn't that old... - but if everything's handled the right way I could see them both staying here for a long time to come in some capacity and making very valuable contributions.