Rich

Not surprised at all at this. Let's hope we're doing a Kinnear special and having one shite half and one good one.

It's a funny point in time to answer a question like this with the Interim Manager situation and the club effectively up for sale, but amazingly enough from a purely NUFC perspective I do think we've progressed, yes. I think the playing squad is of a higher standard, the club is on a better financial footing and that when the new owners/manager do come in they'll be starting from a stronger base than they would have done if this had happened 2 1/2 years ago. While I do think we are better off overall, of course not everything has improved. Attendances have dropped, the Keegan fiasco will be a stain on the club's memory for a long time to come, we're obviously still in limbo at the very current point in time and we've lost to Sunderland away for the first time in a long time. This is just a brief summary, obviously there's more to say on both the good and the bad, but I don't want to get into a post of essay proportions. As far as "where we belong" in the league it's another question that - like you - I find even my own answer to be somewhat arrogant. However, this season I've been fortunate (unfortunate in some cases) to have been able to watch a lot more PL games involving other teams than I have in the past, which comes from having mates here at university who follow Hull/Liverpool/Man Utd/Middlesbrough/Arsenal/Spurs, etc. and which I think gives me a better perspective on how good we are and how good our competition is. Now although you can never really accurately predict standings due to the massive number of inlfuencing factors on final positions (injuries, suspensions, signings, managers, club circumstances, momentum, etc.) I do get the feeling that we should be aiming to finish top 10 and with a shout of Europe, much like we did 2 1/2 years ago despite fielding what many would consider a woeful starting XI (which did take a point away at Birmingham, leaving us in a position to qualify for the Intertoto). However, the main crux of the matter is that while I feel we have improved to a certain degree (certainly not massively) a lot of teams have overtaken us in that time as well, which is the real meat on the bone. It's all well and good that I think we have improved, but because I think a lot of clubs have taken real significant strides forwards (the likes of Portsmouth and Villa, etc.) and subsequently overtaken us... are we in fact worse off for not matching this progression ourselves? It's all extremely complicated to judge, especially when simply comparing starting XI's!

Not exactly the same as saying we have gone backwards 20 years in the space of a couple of months, is it? Besides, off the pitch he is probably right in terms of us being in the shit more than we have been for a long, long while. On the pitch it is quite clear we need heavy investment if we ever want to reach the hights we did just five years ago. We have gone backwards in a staggering way in recent years. Shepherd is partly to blame mainly for some uninspired appointments, Ashley hasn't exactly turned out to be the saviour we craved.. You've misunderstood me, first of all: I initially posted that people have said we've gone back 20 years over the past few months, as in "over the past few months, people have said we've gone back 20 years" (talking about how recently I've seen it said, not how quickly we've regressed). Also, even if your version was true that's one quote I found after simply searching "20 years" in the football forum amidst numerous server errors, forgive me for not looking harder at your request. Obviously things haven't gone how we had all hoped over the summer, but it wasn't as big as a disaster as it was made out to be in some quarters from simply a player-for-player perspective of our dealings. Of course it wasn't up to the high expectations demanded by some (Keegan included, and myself to some extent), and as said in this very thread football isn't simply played on paper, but to say that the position we're in is not a false one after all that has gone on and after the good signs we've seen recently under Kinnear (of all managers) beggars belief.

NE5 has said it on more than one occasion recently. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=56672.msg1524096#msg1524096

No idea how to call it. I'd be happy enough with a draw as Fulham are a funny team at home and we're a funny team all of the time.

He hasn't got the credibilty, reputation or ability to warrant being permanent manager of a club of this size when we're on a sure-footing with new owners (counting chickens a bit there, I know) and I think deep down even he knows that himself. He's taken a job nobody else fancied because he's had nothing to lose and we've seen an improvement on the pitch because of circumstance more than anything else and the simple fact that any figurehead is better than no figurehead at all. To me he comes across as a chancer, he's got a lack of charisma and charm when you see him being interviewed, he doesn't speak clearly, he's not articulate, I doubt he has the reputation/links to attract big players here in the way that some rival managers of ours have... I could go on. Fair play to him for coming in and instilling some fighting spirit in a squad that was dead on it's arse, but please don't be fooled into thinking he's any sort of answer to our real problems. I know we're on a high after the second-half performance against Villa, but people are quick to forget Sunderland, the second-half against WBA, etc.

He is. At least he doesn't fuck off when the going gets tough. When the "truth" comes out that might prove to be the bare bones of it, but as it stands it's nowt more than speculation. I was meaning as far as man-management and the like goes, more than anything, despite the fact that seems to be one of Big Joe's strong-points. Obviously I hope he continues to do well but anyone seeing him as a long-term answer will be sorely disappointed I think.

Still not convinced by him at all, personally. I want stability as much as anyone, but I fear we'd be looking at another Roeder situation with Kinnear only on a far faster timescale due to him having no connection with the fans. I think any manager coming in would have seen improvement, allied with the returns of the likes of Gutierrez and Barton, as the whole thing resembled such a rudderless ship beforehand and I think this is most definitely a honeymoon period for him. For all that the likes of Martins have been talking highly of him, I still don't think Kinnear is fit to lace Keegan's boots and that if the opportunity comes about with new owners then a new man - their own man - would have to be brought in as part of a "long-term strategy".

Dread to think what would have happened in the immediate aftermath of a Poyet appointment. Saying that, if he put a few results together early doors people would have soon been off his back.

Whilst all that is undoubtedly true, it's not the way I've taken the thread personally. There have been people saying we've gone back 20 years over the past few months, that it's been the worst period in our recent history (I bet some mongs have even just said "history") despite the fact that we've had loads of injury problems allied to everything else. Yes the Keegan stuff has been the straw which seems to have broken a fair few thousand camel's backs after years of frustration, but as far as the playing squad goes and the infrastructure within the club goes (talking Academy/Reserves/First Team squad here), things aren't as bad as they've been made out to be, despite all the shite that's gone on outside of that. Hopefully more than anything it's shown people just how much a manager - sometimes any manager - can influence a certain set of players and get them playing above themselves/to the best of their ability. It's not as simple a game as some like to make out, not by a long chalk.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/staff/clark_hunt.jpg Derrrrrrrrrr.

The Sun's take on it... which does appear to be a bit of 2+2 = 5...

Good interview from today's Sun. If he'd done a bit more of this during his time here then I'm sure he'd be more popular with the support. Seems to know the right things to say and comes across as fairly genuine with it. He's moved up in my estimations in recent times, hope he has another good game today.

cos he was very much up front on his own and made to stay up there. a decision more by circumstances than choice. Wasn't disagreeing with that or arguing anything to the contrary.

What makes you think that while our first string side is sitting "comfortably" just above the relegation zone? Because we've had loads of injuries and just come through one of the most unstable periods in our recent history? It's just as easy to say we're a couple of points from being 9th, with a game in hand.

Was more meaning the specific coaching and stuff he'll have been getting from Keegan during the week, not so much the team selection, although it was mainly tongue-in-cheek. For what it's worth, I thought he was cracking against Man Utd on the opening day.

I know we're currently a rudderless ship, but I can't help but resent the further instability all this is going to bring after things have just got settled down again on the playing side. I do appreciate it's a necessity that it happens and that long-term it should be better for the club, but dear me, when does the madness end?

madras: I hope so. He's really grown on me at times this season, showing some real signs of improvement (although still retaining some of the most frustrating aspects to his play). A few months under Special K seems to have helped him along a fair bit... With Owen almost certain to leave I'm confident enough if Oba sticks around... although I worry he might be eyeing a move come the summer as well. Who could blame him if things don't get sorted out here?

With Oba I doubt he'd get a bigger club where he'd be a first choice player and have the #9 on his back, to be honest. I know he's been canny recently and he's done some magical stuff in the past, but he's not even a nailed-on starter in the current squad when everybody's fit (even though he probably should be on merit.) With Gutierrez, provided he stays fit, he seems the sort who could really offer something substantial to a better club than us (particularly thinking in the PL and Liverpool mainly with this), whereas Oba would be bit-part anywhere like that. I hope he does stay, obviously, and that he can help us to get to those levels you're talking about.

Good. Thought I was the only one. Expecting a draw at best, with a healthy smattering of injuries to key players. The physio room is getting far too empty for God/karma/Allah's liking.

Anyone else have the feeling we're going to do what I'd consider typical of NUFC and be utter dogdirt?

Aye. I said earlier in this thread I'd never seen a player like him before, anywhere, not just for us. Fair play to whoever spotted him and snapped him up. He's surely destined for bigger and better things though? He surely wouldn't look out of place at the likes of Liverpool.

As long as he has space to run into we'll be right. I honestly think he could be effective slightly more infield, still playing an attacking game. Just so long as he's not getting bogged down battling for the ball... he's the perfect outlet and probably the one person in our squad you'd want with the ball at his feet and open ground ahead of him. Can't see him sticking around at SJP too long unfortunately.

Thank heavens!