HawK

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them. I don't doubt that if Rafa remains, it'll be if he's told he has control. Keegan was told the same and that quickly disintegrated. Once promotion is obtained, I would expect Ashley to revert to type. I don't see Rafa being fired either. I can very much see him walking though, and if they've been promoted by that point, Ashley won't care. I suspect he'd be delighted actually. Back to normal. Fair enough I understand your point, I just disagree End of the day, I think we all want Ashley out and Rafa in.

Players playing like their playing for a manager that knows he's staying - they're playing for their futures, either here or elsewhere.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some.

Surely even some of the worst owners in football can get it right once in a lifetime, law of averages and all

Mate, it's a hypothetical nonsense of a discussion. Everyone wants both Benitez to stay and Ashley to go. True

Ashley has ultimate accountability for the failures of those he mistakenly delegated power to. If Rafa takes the job with the understanding that he would have that same power, how is that bad.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Ashley is Cellino ffs. Like I said, can people name the owners in English football who are worse than Ashley? Then think of how many clubs there are. Ashley a silent owner as well? He might not pick the team but he restricts the revenue streams of the club, warns against progress in the cups, changes the name of the stadium, has been complicit in the events that led to two tribunals etc. etc. It's not like he's not involved in all the s*** stuff. You don't think Rafa would only manage this club with cast iron guarentees that he gets the control and the finances required to do so? He's almost said as much in interviews in the past few days, which negates most of the points you're making. As for Ashley being Cellino, there couldn't be more polar opposites in terms of chairmen meddling in day to day affairs of the club.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ?

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, shite and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean.

Liverpool when we put three past them, I even did a pic in the 'Football in Paint' thread on it

Our situation is analogous to living with an incurable terminal disease but then winning the Lotto.

Look what happened since Juventus were relegated, they got black and white stripes too.

Wullie, I respect your views - what's your opinion on my post on the previous page?

I think there's not really a chance of Rafa staying unless he had total control. Just think about this - Ashley does not want to be hands on at all, and has delegated everything, to the clubs detriment, to unqualified, inept persons. Now, if he delegates to Rafa Benitez, are we not going to get the club we want, long term, built by a proven winner? While I abhor Mike Ashley for his track record with this club, history does show that we'll have a semblance of a squad that should easily come back up again from the Championship based on the last time around - especially with Rafa at the helm. Last time we were able to keep most if not all of the players that wanted to say, and we brought in numerous loan signings to cover the gaps that did a job whilst keeping our 'stars' on big money like Colo, Nolan and Barton. Actions speak louder than words, and there have been lots, and lots, and lots of words but no action from Ashley over the past 10 years. Well, persuading Benitez to manage us in the Championship will be the biggest action Ashley will have ever delivered for us for the betterment of the club and it could be the start of something else. At last there would be a tangible change, I just can't see Benitez bowing to the whims of the living human thumb or Darth Vader.

"We should stick with Pardew, who else could we get?" Equating Benitez with Pardew

Tough poll, edging towards B. When are we ever going to get a manager remotely close to Rafa's ability, even with new owners? The chance to be a project for one of the best managers in the world imo is a once in a lifetime thing. I'll gamble on Ashley giving him the leeway he needs after 10 years of Ashley's way not working.

It's hard to not get carried away when on YouTube every chance he gets, he scores, but the placement on most of his goals is absolutely top notch, Kane-esque almost. Reminds me of how Owen used to play when he was at Liverpool. Really hope he does the business for us next season, and if Mitrovic stays, would be a great big man/little man combo.

I started it like 7 years ago, fucked if I know tbh.

wat? When Owen was his age he'd already been scoring the same amount of goals in the Premier League and looked like he'd be a genuine world class striker. Owen never scored 20 league goals in a season.

Wasn't he just injured loads? This, best left back this club has had in living memory. That says a lot.

I think I'm gonna put £10 on Steven Taylor starting the first game of the new season if it's in the Championship.

Nahh, he's more than good enough at that level. I think people on here somewhat overrate how high the quality in the championship is tbh If we keep the majority of the squad together we'll walk the championship. If Colback is good enough at that level, then the likes of Sissoko, Wijnaldum and Perez will be dismantling teams week in week out. I haven't even mentioned Shelvey, Janmaat or Townsend etc. Obviously a lot of those will be looking to leave, but they are under contract at the end of the day. If we can get half decent fees for them then fine, sell them and buy replacements. There is literally zero chance of the first two staying tbh. Janmaat would be off too. Shelvey would almost certainly stay, but I could see Townsend going to a club like Everton tbh.