alpal78

My assessment of Given, is that whilst he makes some top notch saves that average keepers won't even get near to, he also has some basic and obvious flaws/weaknesses in his game which leads to us conceding goals. I'm sick of the bullshit that it would have been xx (fill in whatever arbitrary number you like) without Given. It's all evens in the end because whilst he makes some impossible saves, he also fucks up some obvious situation which either led to goals or could have led to goals with more clinical finishing from opposition strikers. In addition, he has not really improved on his weaknesses, we all know that he can't kick the ball or come out to collect a cross to save his life since quite a few years back, have you seen him done anything to improve these areas of his game like any normal professional footballer would?

Will not be the best and get legendary status till he cuts down the cheating in his game (maybe not completely but to a large extend). He practically fucking dives in every single game and the frustrating thing is that he does not need to do that. Even the man Utd fans have stopped defending him on the diving bit (most fans because they are by nature blinkered and bias would defend their players against allegations of diving and cheating). He cheats not because of an insane passion to win (which is positive), but because falling over is second nature to him. He has been thought to play that way and has learned that it reaps dividends. To be a legend in my eyes, you need to be absolutely top class in terms of winning games for your team (goals, assist, reading of the game for defenders, saving the impossible for keepers) and be representative of the values of fair play. So far Christiano has only perfected half of that equation. And before anyone mentions Maradona, yes I think he is an absolute top notch footballer, probably the best I've seen with my eyes, but not a legend in my book.

I'm not going to pass my judgement of this sacking until the new appointment is made. Chris and Mort deserve time to sort things out, just the same way that Chris (Coach HTT) said Sam needed. Why the hypocrisy Chris?

So may typical responses. yes Martins didn't do much, but the lad can't play on the right. He needs either through balls from a creative CM so he can get behind the defence or crosses for his salmon leap like header and he ain't gonna get any of that playing on the right. What irritates me is instead of analysing why he is not playing well, people just post lazy comments like he has a touch of a rapist. Bollocks! didn't have one poor touch today, in fact I thought he brought the ball down under control well on quite a few occassions today.

After the game against Fulham, anyone who thinks/claims that we play less long balls than the likes of Liverpool....etc is just delusional and that includes Coach. It is just not possible to play any more long balls that what we displayed against Fulham. It was only when Emre came on, then he at least tried to keep the ball on the deck.

still feel that way ? Absolutely. Hauling off SWP, the only one who was having any joy at all, for the ridiculously unfit Beckham. Yeah, I'll stick with it. http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-bird-cat-cage.jpg You seemed to have missed the small fact that Beckham actually had an assist whereas SWP for all his running produced zilch of end product in the first 45, not to mention that SWP is partially culpable for not tracking Olic all the way for the second goal. Or maybe you just have difficulty conceding to facts when it goes against your pre determined judgment of Beckham

The press seems to point O'Neil as favourite. I know he did reasonably well with Celtic but he has not reach the finals of the CL or even managed a national team....it's another mistake waiting to happen I tell you. We have to go for the big names like Scolari, Capello...etc. Mourinho would be really interesting but I doubt it's gonna happen. Imagine the war that will erupt when Mourinho calls up a slightly injured Rooney to play. Fergie would just explode!

I repeat players from outside the EU zone. We would still have plenty of Euro players. Your argument cuts both ways Parky. Whilst true that the European players will still provide competition, if you follow the argument of limiting players outside EU because they stiffle development of English players, then on the same logic unlimited number of European players would do the same. In fact if anything there are far more European players in the Premier League than those outside of EU. Even if foreign players do stiffle development of English players, then it has to be an all or nothing proposal, you can't make arbitrary demarcation based on country or region. I personally think Gerrard is speaking horsecrap. The failure of the English team is not because English players are not good enough but they are unable to replicate club form when playing for the national team and that has nothing to do with the number of foreign players in the Premier League. Blaiming foreign players is a lazy excuse.

Not to have another pop at Sam, but really what is a manager looking for when he plays a CM or forward (in the case of Smith) on the wings? It's not just Sam playing Smith and more recently Barton against Sunderland, Souness & Roeder did it with Emre on the LW and even Bobby used to play Bowyer on the RW. None of the afore mentioned players have much pace, much less the ability to whip the ball in, so what do managers expect out of CM when they are played as wingers?

I don't know how you managed to get them into this thread but well done. didn't YOU say we would be much better off too ? Why aren't we ? What do you think about not replacing Solano and Dyer ? And what do you think of our improved defence and the better results that were nailed on and guaranteed as a result ? Unfuckingbelievable that you would use the last few results to back up your claim on Shepherd and Hall. Although the result was s***, to equate the current Newcastle setup to the time of Shephard makes you look silly. Give Ashley + Mort + Sam 2 full seasons, then start making comparisons with the Shepherd + Hall's time and you'll start making sense. To answer your questions Why aren't we ? Too early to say and anyone who tries to draw conclusions based on the few games we've played is quite frankly an idiot. There are signs that are worrying but nowhere near enough to make conclusions and compare against Shepherd + Hall stinking regime (bar the Bobby years) What do you think about not replacing Solano and Dyer ? And you seriously think that Dyer would be playing week in week out if he was still with us right now...you're funnier than I thought! Sam did not create the problem by selling Dyer, he just did not repair the problem that was already there before him. I was against the selling of Solano but Nobby wanted to go...nothing Sam could have done, and yes not replacing Solano was one of Sam's transfer market mistake. And what do you think of our improved defence and the better results that were nailed on and guaranteed as a result ? You seriously want us to believe that Rozenthal, Cacapa, Beye and Enrique = Bramble, Ramage, Carr, Babayaro, Boumsong A poor result does not prove anything and our defenders need more time to gel. I'll bet you whatever stake that come end of the season, they would have had more better games than the previous lot.

Fills my heart with joy. Cheers Wullie!

Technically he is right though that is poor management by Jol. His statements are only going to spur our players on and I hope we gave his team a pasting tonight and shove his words back into his mouth and right through his ass!

I enjoyed your post, and agree in part with what you've written (especially about how stupid it is for some of our supporters to be adopting - or at least presenting - a blase attitude about the possibility of us losing Owen). However, where his club versus country priorities are concerned, surely there can't be that much long term smoke without some degree of fire? For instance, how hard would it be (or have been) for Owen to repeatedly say things like this to the press: "I'm a full-time player for Newcastle United (or Liverpool FC), and a part-time player for England, and I'll be fielding and answering questions from you on that basis - in short, you'll find me less than talkative if you persist in asking questions about England"; or "as sweet as it is, playing for your country is no more than the icing on the cake for a professional footballer, with the cake being your club, and so my club will always be my clear first priority"; or "it's a real honour to represent your country, but an absolute duty to represent the club (which, after all, pays your wages on a weekly basis) to the very best of your ability, and so as a professional footballer it's completely unacceptable to me to jeopardise my club duties in the quest for international honours"; or "I'm only prepared to answer questions about international football 5 days before England games, and 3 days after them, and in-between times I am only prepared to talk about club football - if you ignore this principle of mine, then you'll get absolutely nothing out of me"; or, specific to the current situation, "although I feel fit and healthy at the moment, and I'm confident that my body could get through the upcoming international fixtures, I've decided to err on the side of caution and declare myself unavailable for England selection. While this has been a difficult decision, I feel that after the horror run with injuries that I've experienced during my time on Tyneside, I owe it to the club, the fans, and myself to prove that I am capable of stringing together a significant run of games without injury before I return to the international fold". You get the picture, and my point is basically that Owen invites and fuels the scepticism and paranoia of his club's supporters by typically speaking and acting as if his first priority is (or at least may be) England, regardless of whether or not this is the case. In my view though, the club versus country issue is but a small part of a much bigger problem, and that is the traumatic nature of the Toon Army's "love affair" with Owen. Specifically, I feel that there's obviously a fear on the part of the majority of the Toon Army that Owen has never been fully committed to us, and that no matter how much we want and appreciate him, he'd rather be with someone else and, worse still, he'd run to someone else if given a chance (fears that were exacerbated by the revelation of the buy-out clause in Owen's contract, and his apparent wait-and-see approach during the summer transfer window). In my view, even more than his injury nightmares, it is this ever-present threat of "unrequited love" that has stopped the Toon Army from wholeheartedly embracing Owen, and it's a smouldering recipe for disaster. Why? Because with unrequited love the end result for the partner who feels "unloved" (the Toon Army, in this instance) is inevitably a potent mixture of paranoia and mistrust (over Owen's true motives), self doubt (over our club's capacity to hold on to him), anger (due to the niggling feeling that he's using us and taking us for granted), and fear (over the ever-present threat of his rejection and betrayal). Of course, this negative cocktail of emotions runs the risk of serving as a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby (sections of) the Toon Army might act in such a way as to drive Owen into the arms of another club, or at least to provide him with a ready-made excuse for jumping ship (cue the "go f*** yourself Owen" brigade on here, and on talk-back radio, as well as the boo boys at Saint James's last Sunday ... even if most of the latter weren't booing at what the press, and Owen himself apparently, seem to think they were). My only (rather desperate) hope from this point on is that Owen can finally enjoy an injury-free run for NUFC, because I think it's obvious that he'll score a lot of goals if that's the case, and we'll find ourselves in a more or less healthy position on the league table as a result. In turn, this would see the more fickle elements of our support-base (the boo boys) quickly turn their affections around, and in no time they'll doubtless be investing their pocket money in replica shirts with "Wor Mickey" on the back, and pretty much forgetting about the club versus country issue (personally, I couldn't give a rat's arse if Owen plays for seven different countries, as long as he regularly turns out and performs for NUFC). For his part, if Owen actually has been tempted to look elsewhere to further his career (which I guess we'll never really know), then just maybe he'll reconsider, and perhaps he'll even go so far as to sign a new contract with us, minus the release clause. From that point on, I think that the whole of the Toon Army would at last be in a position to unequivocally embrace Owen as one of our own, instead of harbouring a fear (stupidly vocalised at the shallow end of our supporter gene pool; privately expressed but publicly concealed at the deeper end) that if we get too close, he'll only break our hearts by doing a treacherous runner in January, or at the end of the season. Spot on, it's too convenient of an ecxcuse to say that Owen's answers are based on what journalists ask him. If he wanted to, he could easily spin the questions around and show that he cares for the club whilst still answering the questions on England. The fact that he choses not to is at best him being ignorant of PR skills and in the worst case scenario proof of him not giving a toss bout Newcastle.

Spot on but that is the danger of booing, it can easily be misconstrued and spun by media with agenda. Owen clearly thought that the booing is for him coz he cupped his hands to his ears after he scored which is traditionally a gesture that players do when fans are not supportive of them.

To me it's just bad PR from Owen. Although he made some valid points on trusting the surgeon's opinion, he could have been more tactful in the way he put the point across. Simply adding "I can understand the Newcastle supporters' frustration as I have not played as many games as I would have liked for them, but....", and conclude with "after coming back from England duty, I intend to put my record right at Newcastle, play as many games and score loads of goals" would have done the job for me. Instead Owen feels that we don't appreciate him for the megastar that he is and instead of trying to understand our frustration, he is just lashing out (albeit diplomatically) in equal frustration. For the record, didn't like the comments he made on Barton, shafting a team mate is never good. I understand that it's probably the journalists who put him on the spot but again a simple "he is entitled to his opinion and I respect that" would have sufficed and been good PR.

But trust me, Smith will still start ahead of him against Everton!

What I don't understand about this whole Smithy thingy, is surely that Sam's Pro Zone and other softwares will show that Smith has contributed zilch attacking wise. Does Sam just go blanko when reading Smith's stats?!

Too f****** true Wullie ... but I think that the solution is obvious lads - we need to think laterally. You know, all that "if you can't bring Mohammad to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammad" stuff. Therefore, from the likes of a corner, instead of opting for the apparently futile path of trying to improve the quality of our delivery, we should simply place six or so of our players in front of their first man. Now, I know what you're thinking - "but they'll simply call our bluff and put their first man in front of our six". But here's the clever part - we just stick to our strategy, and then eventually our six men will be within ten yards of the kick taker, at which point the laws of the game will prevent our opponents from getting their first man closer to the ball than us. At that point, one of our six players simply needs to get a thirty yard flick-on, and wor Mickey will no doubt do the rest! Just so you know, I lauged out loud in my office after reading that, thanks

I think it's very important that we have at least one Geordie on the playing staff who can link the history of the club and the passion of the fans back to the dressing room. I think that Taylor has the potential to be our John Terry or our Tony Adams, the heart beat of our club. We should pay him the going rate for promising young talent at our club, on a par with N'Zogbia or Milner, and I'd be disappointed if he was dissatisfied with that. Agree with that completely. Look at the top clubs around Europe. Maldini at Milan, Puyol at Barcelona, Kahn at Bayern, Man Utd's "class of 92", Carragher/Gerrard at Liverpool, Terry/Lampard at Chelsea, Raul at Real Madrid. I'm not saying Taylor has their ability, but then we aren't Milan or Barcelona either. The point remains the same. Disagree with that comparison. Even taking the difference in the quality of the above teams vis a vis us into account, those players you mentioned are all first teamers and in fact are probably the first player that the managers pick every weekend. As it stands now, Taylor is not a first team player and should not be paid equal to Zog and Milner (who are first teamers) just because Taylor is a Geordie. I think he is important and potentially has a good future at the club, but treating him differently just because of his birthplace will be the start of things getting to his head and possibly his own downfall.

Not really, Given just has to accept lke other players that competition is good for the whole squad and if a player plays well, then it's his jersey to lose. If he is so confident that he is better than Harper, then he should also be confident that Harper would be dropped soon.

Never understood why we blame players when they get injured. Disappointed aye but why is it the players fault? Marcelino and his injured finger being an exception off course. Owen is a classic case, many had written him off after his series of injuries but now that he's back banging in the goals, he's being bummed left, right and centre. In Emre's case because he has run off to play an important competitive match when not fit enough, massively increasing the chance of another injury. I can see where you are coming from but surely that is a decision that Sam and his medical staff should have made. If he was not fit enough to play for Turkey as you speculate, then he should not have been allowed to join them. The fact that he did and with no objections from Sam probably indicate that he was ok to play, and in fact if you look at Sam's quote on the official website, he also seems to say that he had already overcame his injury in time for the internationals. The fact that he got injured again after the internationals in unfortunate but not his fault. I hope his exclusion does not mean that we will stick with the boring trio of Butt, Geremi and Smith in midfield. I fear they won't break down a resolute Derby who will surely be on the rebound. Go with 4-4-2 with 2 genuine wingers in Zog and Milner and Geremi and Butt can man the midfield. Smith has to be on the bench for me as I don't think he has done enough to justify a starting place. Clubs have no say about the call-up of players for international duty. Because Emre was on the bench for Turkey in game two, it would suggest that he wasn't up for playing two games in quick succession, and when Turkey found themselves in trouble, Emre and the manager gambled, and put him on the pitch. The gamble paid off short term, but at some point, Emre injured himself again, only instead of coming straight off like would be expected of him at Newcastle, he carried on, potentially aggravating his injury. Although going by the letter of the law you are right, but we all know that selection of a player who has just overcame an injury has always been negotaited between club and country. Refer Rooney in World Cup example. There have been numerous times when the club basically witheld a player who just recovered from playing international games. What I'm saying is that if Emre was in that delicate stage where playing would have necessarily caused him to get injured again, then Sam should and could have held him back the way other managers have done before. It's not as black and white as you believe. The fact that he didn't play 2 full games only suggests that he wasn't match fit for the whole 90 minutes, and that would further suggest that it was in our interest for him to get that match fitness with Turkey just the way Owen did with England and had he returned uninjured having played such games under his belt, we would all have been very happy as he would have been ready and fit to start against Derby. It was a risk we took that unfortunately backfired.

Never understood why we blame players when they get injured. Disappointed aye but why is it the players fault? Marcelino and his injured finger being an exception off course. Owen is a classic case, many had written him off after his series of injuries but now that he's back banging in the goals, he's being bummed left, right and centre. In Emre's case because he has run off to play an important competitive match when not fit enough, massively increasing the chance of another injury. I can see where you are coming from but surely that is a decision that Sam and his medical staff should have made. If he was not fit enough to play for Turkey as you speculate, then he should not have been allowed to join them. The fact that he did and with no objections from Sam probably indicate that he was ok to play, and in fact if you look at Sam's quote on the official website, he also seems to say that he had already overcame his injury in time for the internationals. The fact that he got injured again after the internationals in unfortunate but not his fault. I hope his exclusion does not mean that we will stick with the boring trio of Butt, Geremi and Smith in midfield. I fear they won't break down a resolute Derby who will surely be on the rebound. Go with 4-4-2 with 2 genuine wingers in Zog and Milner and Geremi and Butt can man the midfield. Smith has to be on the bench for me as I don't think he has done enough to justify a starting place.

Never understood why we blame players when they get injured. Disappointed aye but why is it the players fault? Marcelino and his injured finger being an exception off course. Owen is a classic case, many had written him off after his series of injuries but now that he's back banging in the goals, he's being bummed left, right and centre.

ridiculous says it all, to be a good defender you have to be running around like Steven Taylor on ecstacy or flying in with challanges left, right and centre Ferdinand doesn't have to do this because he's one step ahead of the attacker, Ferguson's no mug, there's a reason he paid £30m for him aye and shevchenko was bought for that price... kind of negates the whole "hes expensive therefore he's good" arguement not an argument that I used really, difference being, Ferdinand has been the first name on Fergie's teamsheet for 3 years now Sorry that's just bollocks, there's a couple of players that Fergie would put ahead of Ferdinand. Even in centre back, if you ask most Man Utd fans, they'd prefer Vidic ahead of Ferdinand. Ferdinand is good but is also liable to some serious concentration issues. Hard to compare him with Terry. Terry does not have the continental class of Ferdinand in terms of bringing the ball out of defence, but that also makes him more reliable, i.e. no fannying about, just get the ball and clear the ball into midfield.

None of these players are without faults, they just happen to have less than Emre does. Dyer has less faults than Emre? Unfortunately true. Its why a club paid £7m for him, while Emre we'd be lucky to receive the £3.8m we paid for him. That statement alone discredits your views in more ways than one. First saying that Dyer has less faults than Emre, if there was any player whose paid salary that you so abhore got to their head, it must have been Dyer. Then to top it off, you backed up your point by using the fact that Dyer got sold for 7M compared to a speculated tranfer fee for Emre without taking into account that English players always fetch twice the price compared to a foreign player. Next you'll be telling us that Bent is a better player than Berbatov coz the former was bought for 16M and the latter only for 10.9M