TRon

I don't blame him for going, I just think the hero worship should have ended the day he put in a transfer request. He always played up to the adulation he got as well which makes it even more cringeworthy. He wasn't a local hero he was Newcastle player who got well paid for his services and has now fucked off chasing the arab £ notes.

I wonder why Nolan is getting "rested" during such a hectic period, seeing as just about every other squad member has been? Does Hughton genuinely think he's so crucial to our chances of getting a result?

The idea of us paying Gus Hiddink's wages is so daft it's not even funny.

What pressing of the ball? I never saw any! I saw us standing off, defending deep and letting them have the ball. Probably down to the manager's instructions. For us to press them we would need Guthrie, Smith, Routledge and Nolan to be chasing down their players across the length of the pitch for 90 minutes. Do you really think that any of that lot bar Routledge looked physically capable of doing that today? They were capable of it as soon as we conceded. Routledge clearly is, the other lot can do it to they just dont bother. Its mental more than Physical. When its 0-0 they dont even contest balls that are dropping down to the opposition...they just stand and wait. When we're losing they get stuck in and we get more possession, its just the basics they stop doing due to arrogance i think. I know they are capable of it, just not for 90 mins. Even when we start games well we usually run out of steam after 15 mins. When I was watching us sit back for the first half I actually wondered whether the likes of Nolan, Smith and Guthrie were preserving their lungs so they'd be able to get through the 2nd 45 mins.

The only position I can see him making his own is as a holding midfielder where he can be excused walking about like a spectator most of the match. In this division he could probably set up our play better than Smith or Butt from there. The only worry would be whether he would be bullied and knocked about because he's quite feeble on the ball.

Why not? He's young English and fairly cheap by their standards. If he is lucky he might even get on the Chelsea bench once in a while to watch Chelsea's foreign stars in action.

At least Shearer tried to change things in the short time that he was here. Well he talked publicly about all the changes but it wasn't really evident where it mattered, on the pitch.

I think you'll find that most clubs will be operating along these lines in future unless they have a massively rich owner willing to spend millions of their own money selflessly.

I agree that he comes inside, that just makes putting him on either wing even more stupid. It doesn't help him that he comes in to the middle and nobody is moving for him, we had nobody creating space today but Swansea players had no problem finding plenty. The Swansea players were working harder all over the pitch. That's my main beef with Guthrie, I didn't see him busting a gut on or off the ball. The only one I saw running hard for 90 mins was Routledge - and he's the winger who's by definition supposed to be lazy!

Jonas is a left winger, Guthrie isn't. On the many occasions I've seen him lose the ball he's usually been in a fairly central position. He doesn't really stay wide, he comes inside and ends up clogging the centre. I don't blame him for that, but once he's there you would expect him to hold possession better.

Its pointless because Ashley isnt in it for the long term, as long as Ashley's we're not going to get someone better than Hughton. You cant say Mark Hughes is the best man out there, because no-one is going to achieve anything long term if the fat man's here. If new ownership came in then the likes of Hughes, Curbishley, Sven etc would be possibilites. I know some people wont agree, and some might think its narrow minded, but imo Keegan is the best man for this job. Its actually narrow minded, imo, dismiss him just because its KK. All this quit stuff is giving Ashley far too much credit as a owner, and I question whether a lot of Newcastle fans have read the tribunal. People we're demanding his return when he was forced out, they wernt crazy people then, 52,000 were saying the same thing... the only thing thats changed now is its been proved he was forced out, which is why my feelings are still the same. The team was heading in the rigth direction if we had made some good signings that summer, he's a top manager despite the cliche'd rubbish that goes around. The sentimental part is the incredibly brilliant bonus. While I agree Keegan would be a great choice as manager, I just don't think he'd realistically be able to work under the sort of budget Hughton is working with. The reality is that in future most managers are going to have to work under tight financial constraints the way football is going.

What pressing of the ball? I never saw any! I saw us standing off, defending deep and letting them have the ball. Probably down to the manager's instructions. For us to press them we would need Guthrie, Smith, Routledge and Nolan to be chasing down their players across the length of the pitch for 90 minutes. Do you really think that any of that lot bar Routledge looked physically capable of doing that today?

A lot of people are using this as a defence: "he was still the 2nd best midfielder out there today" How does that excuse his performance? Jonas has played with the same lumbering statues but he still usually manages to hold defenders off and move it forward. Guthrie has a real problem holding the ball under pressure and for a central midfielder that's a worry.

Is he overweight? Nolan’s a big bloke, could it be slow to standstill is as fast as he’ll ever manage. TBF to Nolan he does his best (most the time) and his passing and movement are actually quite good, he’s probably the most intelligent footballer we have at the club. It’s just unfortunate it all happens in slow motion. That said he looked sharper at the start of the season, perhaps he needs a rest. overweight, the guy make's me look thin and i'm fat compare him last season to this season and he look's 1-2 stone overweight He looks exactly the same to me. He was overweight and unfit when arrived and nothing's changed since then.

The interesting thing about that is, the senior players who were credited with giving 110% and creating a great team atmosphere are the ones who don't seem to be putting the running in during the recent rut. Smith has lost some of his bite, and as for Nolan, I can clearly recall before he came here he was out of the Bolton side on account of being a fat, unfit waste of space. Whether that was due to coming back from injury I have no idea. Maybe that's still his excuse for looking like a forty year old who's just staggered out the pub a few hours earlier.

All the more disappointing that result at Derby then considering we had a much more balanced side out. No matter how shit we played today we got a point against a much better team. 3-0 man.

One thing which worries me about our defensive line ups away from home: I don't have any objection to sitting back and keeping a strong shape, but we don't seem to have any effective counter attack strategy. I don't know if this is down to lack of preparation or just poor execution by the players. Personally I just don't think the players are good enough. The ball bounces back off Carroll and Lovenkrands, and the midfield is generally run ragged by the fitter, faster opposition. I think Hughton could think a bit more out of the box for a solution. I think it was David28 who mentioned Keegan's use of Owen being a good example.

:banana: :banana:

Curious that Nolan/Guthrie dominated Cardiff, yet throw Smith in behind them and it falls to shit. They didn't do too well against Derby though. Most of our team are inconstant. Good one game and terrible the next. Of Smith, Nolan and Butt, I think it's a mistake to play more than one in the central midfield as they are all knackered. I would go for Smith and Guthrie if I had to pick two.

Carroll is still f***ing s***, it's only statistics that with all the headers he f***s up one or two will sometimes be good. That's 5 goals in 6. So? If our target man was any decent it'd be more than that with our long ball tactics tbh. If your being serious that is even funnier! Of course I'm serious, anyone not wearing "He's a local lad, he's teh best since Shearahhhh lolz!!!11!1one!!1" glasses sees that. Our target man should be getting a goal every game Your funny. Where was Carroll prior to his scoring run? If we had a target man that could actually steer his headers towards other players, and use his feet as well, we'd easily be a much better side. I'm not saying a target man needs to score, but Carroll offers nothing besides being lucky a few times in recent games. Ranger for instance, whilst still being very raw, shows sign of being a decent target man in that he can hold up the ball and actually aim headers. It's a shame he can't put them away. Carroll is just a young Tore Andre Flo tbh. You should look at how many assists Carroll has, it might just surprise you. I don't need to look, as I'm well aware. He's still not good enough to be first choice striker for us, I'd be concerned if he was our 4th choice striker, even. He'll never make it at the top level, and while he'll be good enough until we (hopefully) get promoted, we need rid of him in the summer and bring in someone that's actually a footballer. Well it's not 'offering nothing' than is it, when he is scoring and assisting. How about you put some logic into your next argument. Andy Carroll has 7 in 24 apps and 5 assists. We have 48 goals, which means he's been involved in 12 of them, which in itself doesn't sound bad. Though, when you look at all the chances he's had to set people up and to put more away, it starts to get more shocking. You can't waste that many chances, if we'd not have Nolan around fluking one in here and there earlier in the season, those errors would be much more apparent and could single-handedly be a reason for us being around mid-table rather than at the top of the table. He has 65 shots (headers included), whearas 20 have been on goal. We're s*** at getting the balls to him though, but you'd imagine a player like the one you're describing would be able to produce more than statistically 2.7 shots a match, wouldn't you? I mean, after all, he has "5 in 6". But wait, 5 in 6? What happened before those 6? Oh, yeah, he did almost nothing. I can't find his completed pass percentage, but I'm fairly certain that when and if I do find it, it will be less than 30%. He's not a good striker, we're not a good team. It's not a good match when we need ability up front to make up for the shitness of the rest of the team, especially in midfield. If he can only get 56 shots fired in the Championship, what would he do in the Premiership? He's not good, the numbers speak for themselves. What he does on the pitch speaks for itself. I'm not blinded by one lucky scoring run. Basically, he offers us pretty much nothing. I'm fairly certain even Ameobi would be banging some of the headers Carroll has missed straight in. Unbelieveable. What? The actual statistics of Andy Carroll this season? I know. That's funny, your funny. You're. If you don't want to have an actual debate about something to defend your opinion, I'll resort to childlike petty replies as well. Actually, i dissected your massive post - just up above. Where you contradicted yourself more than once If there are contradictions, they're there because I'm not a native speaker of English and have probably constructed sentences wrong. Your dissection is pretty bad as well, mind. As you've bolded statistical facts regarding him this season were I say it doesn't sound to bad, before I go into describing why it still is bad. Then you've bolded that I say we're s*** at getting balls through to him, which we are, which in turn I mentioned to describe how our midfield is not good and that we need a striker that can do more with the delievery they do get. Then you've highlighted where I've said he basically offers us nothing, which he doesn't, as we could easily play Ameobi instead and have a better striker on the pitch. Even Ranger, as I've mentioned before, has better hold up play. That said, I'll give you that Ranger has yet to develop the finishing skills needed to score the goals we need, so he's not a better choice as long as Carroll keeps getting lucky. Once Carroll starts to dry out, though, he'd be a better choice as he can keep the ball up and get it around to others better than Carroll can. You said he offered nothing.. then pointed out his contribution has resulted in 12 goals in 48. That he doesn't have many chances a match, and he provides assists to his team-mates. Stop it now, i'm bored. Amazing, I'd be tempted to say something about your intelligence, but I won't, so I'll bold it out for you, my point is THAT IT IS NOT GOOD FOR A STRIKER STARTING AS MANY GAMES AS CARROLL FOR THE TEAM CURRENTLY LEADING THE CHAMPIONSHIP AND THAT IS WHY HE OFFERS US NOTHING THAT SAY AMEOBI COULDN'T. There, get it? I like it how you have managed to change your argument completely . I also like the fact you must edit your posts at least twice. I like the fact you can't actually argue your side of the argument, rather than point out things that has nothing to do with it. Seriously, man. What are you even doing on a debate forum if you don't want to debate something? Sadly, you can't really debate with people who say a striker offers nothing, and then say he is responsible for 25% of our goals. My point has always been that he offers us nothing compared to our other strikers, and that he'd barely be 4th choice for me. You can search all my previous posts regarding Carroll (in all threads) for evidence that it has been my opinion. And he's not responsible for 25% of our goals, since when is 7 out of 48 25%? Ameobi has 7 in 9 as well, by the way. You count the assists as well http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Kaizero/dcscs.jpg I'm out. Let me know when we can have a debate where both sides discuss the same thing, though that will probably be never. ur an idiot. r u claymin u can pridikt da fyootah!?!?!? idiot! You have contradicted yourself so many times, which i have even pointed out on each occasion. You don't actually have an argument. You made a knee-jerk post, which you keep trying to defend.. which has been picked apart. 7 goals and 5 assists = 12 - right? 48/12 = 4 = 25%. Simple math. I'm out. tbf thats typical of you. One, I haven't and two you haven't pointed it out or proved it on any occasion. If you're going to stat it up then Ameobi 7 goals and 1 assist in 8 starts. =100% Carroll 7 goals and 5 assists in 20 starts = 60% Lovenkrands 5 goals and 1 assist in 10 starts = 60% So therefore our other options are as good as or better than Carroll in 10 less games. I love you fttw, man. I felt like I was the only sane person left. No it's not that, it's just most of us have given up on getting into useless debates with dmck. He thinks the sun shines out of Owen's arse if that's not enough of a clue to his retarded thinking I don't know what is.

He was poor on the whole but I thought he was the spearhead of our attack in the last 15 minutes or so. Nice passage of play from him for the goal. I'm not doubting he's far better ability wise than Nolan or Smith, I just don't think there is any excuse for his lack of effort. We shouldn't be talking about a good last 15 mins, at his age he should be fizzing all over the place so even if he has a shit game you can say, well at least he put the miles in. Routledge wasn't partularly good today either but he at least ran his socks off.

I think what pissed me off was not just him dawdling and getting caught on the ball, but when we actually had possession up front, quite often he was stood back watching absolutely stationary instead of offering support or making a run into the box. If you watch him off the ball you'll see this a lot.

Clearly Shola clearly was a massive reason why we were so shit the last couple of games. He's fucking up our play with his awful touch and terrible jumping, heading, big lips etc.

Carroll is still f***ing s***, it's only statistics that with all the headers he f***s up one or two will sometimes be good. That's 5 goals in 6. So? If our target man was any decent it'd be more than that with our long ball tactics tbh. If your being serious that is even funnier! Of course I'm serious, anyone not wearing "He's a local lad, he's teh best since Shearahhhh lolz!!!11!1one!!1" glasses sees that. Our target man should be getting a goal every game Your funny. Where was Carroll prior to his scoring run? If we had a target man that could actually steer his headers towards other players, and use his feet as well, we'd easily be a much better side. I'm not saying a target man needs to score, but Carroll offers nothing besides being lucky a few times in recent games. Ranger for instance, whilst still being very raw, shows sign of being a decent target man in that he can hold up the ball and actually aim headers. It's a shame he can't put them away. Carroll is just a young Tore Andre Flo tbh. You should look at how many assists Carroll has, it might just surprise you. I don't need to look, as I'm well aware. He's still not good enough to be first choice striker for us, I'd be concerned if he was our 4th choice striker, even. He'll never make it at the top level, and while he'll be good enough until we (hopefully) get promoted, we need rid of him in the summer and bring in someone that's actually a footballer. Well it's not 'offering nothing' than is it, when he is scoring and assisting. How about you put some logic into your next argument. Andy Carroll has 7 in 24 apps and 5 assists. We have 48 goals, which means he's been involved in 12 of them, which in itself doesn't sound bad. Though, when you look at all the chances he's had to set people up and to put more away, it starts to get more shocking. You can't waste that many chances, if we'd not have Nolan around fluking one in here and there earlier in the season, those errors would be much more apparent and could single-handedly be a reason for us being around mid-table rather than at the top of the table. He has 65 shots (headers included), whearas 20 have been on goal. We're s*** at getting the balls to him though, but you'd imagine a player like the one you're describing would be able to produce more than statistically 2.7 shots a match, wouldn't you? I mean, after all, he has "5 in 6". But wait, 5 in 6? What happened before those 6? Oh, yeah, he did almost nothing. I can't find his completed pass percentage, but I'm fairly certain that when and if I do find it, it will be less than 30%. He's not a good striker, we're not a good team. It's not a good match when we need ability up front to make up for the shitness of the rest of the team, especially in midfield. If he can only get 56 shots fired in the Championship, what would he do in the Premiership? He's not good, the numbers speak for themselves. What he does on the pitch speaks for itself. I'm not blinded by one lucky scoring run. Basically, he offers us pretty much nothing. I'm fairly certain even Ameobi would be banging some of the headers Carroll has missed straight in. Unbelieveable. What? The actual statistics of Andy Carroll this season? I know. That's funny, your funny. You're. If you don't want to have an actual debate about something to defend your opinion, I'll resort to childlike petty replies as well. Actually, i dissected your massive post - just up above. Where you contradicted yourself more than once It's also been pointed out that other strikers offer goals too, except a lot of the others offer more than that. Shola, Lovenkrands, even Ranger offer more than just goals. And before you say 'just goals!?' think about Nolan. Shola doesn't offer anything except goals, in fact Carroll offers more than him, Ameobi is a better goalscorer - that i would agree on. So then surely your point is moot if you're basing your argument to have Carroll in the team is based around goals? Carroll is easily the most one dimensional striker we have. Not at all, Shola is the most one dimensional striker we have. Carroll actually lays on goals for his team-mates. Carrolls link up play was on display for everyone to see today after all. How wonderfully he dove-tailed with Lovenkrands to lead the Swansea defenders a merry dance.

Carroll is still f***ing s***, it's only statistics that with all the headers he f***s up one or two will sometimes be good. That's 5 goals in 6. So? If our target man was any decent it'd be more than that with our long ball tactics tbh. If your being serious that is even funnier! Of course I'm serious, anyone not wearing "He's a local lad, he's teh best since Shearahhhh lolz!!!11!1one!!1" glasses sees that. Our target man should be getting a goal every game Your funny. Where was Carroll prior to his scoring run? If we had a target man that could actually steer his headers towards other players, and use his feet as well, we'd easily be a much better side. I'm not saying a target man needs to score, but Carroll offers nothing besides being lucky a few times in recent games. Ranger for instance, whilst still being very raw, shows sign of being a decent target man in that he can hold up the ball and actually aim headers. It's a shame he can't put them away. Carroll is just a young Tore Andre Flo tbh. You should look at how many assists Carroll has, it might just surprise you. I don't need to look, as I'm well aware. He's still not good enough to be first choice striker for us, I'd be concerned if he was our 4th choice striker, even. He'll never make it at the top level, and while he'll be good enough until we (hopefully) get promoted, we need rid of him in the summer and bring in someone that's actually a footballer. Well it's not 'offering nothing' than is it, when he is scoring and assisting. How about you put some logic into your next argument. Andy Carroll has 7 in 24 apps and 5 assists. We have 48 goals, which means he's been involved in 12 of them, which in itself doesn't sound bad. Though, when you look at all the chances he's had to set people up and to put more away, it starts to get more shocking. You can't waste that many chances, if we'd not have Nolan around fluking one in here and there earlier in the season, those errors would be much more apparent and could single-handedly be a reason for us being around mid-table rather than at the top of the table. He has 65 shots (headers included), whearas 20 have been on goal. We're s*** at getting the balls to him though, but you'd imagine a player like the one you're describing would be able to produce more than statistically 2.7 shots a match, wouldn't you? I mean, after all, he has "5 in 6". But wait, 5 in 6? What happened before those 6? Oh, yeah, he did almost nothing. I can't find his completed pass percentage, but I'm fairly certain that when and if I do find it, it will be less than 30%. He's not a good striker, we're not a good team. It's not a good match when we need ability up front to make up for the shitness of the rest of the team, especially in midfield. If he can only get 56 shots fired in the Championship, what would he do in the Premiership? He's not good, the numbers speak for themselves. What he does on the pitch speaks for itself. I'm not blinded by one lucky scoring run. Basically, he offers us pretty much nothing. I'm fairly certain even Ameobi would be banging some of the headers Carroll has missed straight in. Unbelieveable. What? The actual statistics of Andy Carroll this season? I know. That's funny, your funny. You're. If you don't want to have an actual debate about something to defend your opinion, I'll resort to childlike petty replies as well. Actually, i dissected your massive post - just up above. Where you contradicted yourself more than once It's also been pointed out that other strikers offer goals too, except a lot of the others offer more than that. Shola, Lovenkrands, even Ranger offer more than just goals. And before you say 'just goals!?' think about Nolan. Couldn't have said it better. But we cant think about Nolan anymore when saying just goals. If he was still scoring now, hed be getting less criticism. I thought he was shit when he was getting goals mind. If he's going to be in the side we must play long ball football 100%.