greydos

Diatta probably had the easiest test ever known to get into a professional club: KK: "here Diatta, we're gonna play you at centre half in this training match. You're marking Alan Smith (sorry 'Smudge'). See if you can keep him from scoring" LD (to himself): "**** me this is a piece of ****! Easiest money i'll ever make!!"

We should have got Leroy Lita in on loan, who has now gone to Charlton... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/7278982.stm Decent propsect, would have given us pace and fight till the end of the season

--------Given Carr----Taylor--Cacapa--Enrique -------------Butt Milner-----------Barton---Zoggy ------------Duff -----------------Owen Duff did this behiind Robbie Keane for Ireland in the Korea World cup and looked great. Plus Toure et al are not the type to arge an barge em. Dyer with pace up top troubled them at emirates last year so could work.

Rozehnal wasn't good enough for what? Playing as a DM it's his job to try and break up Bolton's attack not be expected to create everything for us, the job he done was done well and he showed more craft than any of Butt, Smith or Geremi playing in that position, he didn't jump in with sliding tackles or get stuck in because he didn't really need to under the circumstances, his passing was pretty good as his percentage of completed passes shows but if you've got no pace or movement in front of you then I'm not sure what you can do. The way the team was set up there were 3 players expected to create things in Duff, N'Zogbia and Milner and all were below whats expected, it doesn't matter what N'Zogbia done against Stoke it's been obvious when he's played for us in the middle against better opposition he's not suited to CM, Duff and Milner offer little in the way of pace or goal threat so we were stumped, Ameobi was his usual self yet still contributed more than Owen, on the whole our team as a creative force wasn't good enough and Keegan will have to either kick their arses or get better in. Baggio's called it right for me. Sometimes it's a case of players make a pass/cross. Roz's pass was the same as geremi's v man city away, and because martins was quicker than owen, he got onto the end of it and finished it, turning the pass into an assist. Here, owen was too slow to bring the ball down (not to mention he can't use his left foot for first touch of difficult balls like martins can) and therefore it just looked like roz was over-ambitious etc. First and foremost his job was to protect the defence, and protect the defence he did.

Quite interesting. Lends some support to those who felt that Roz did well on Saturday. Made a few really canny passes from distance. He was the least of our worries. Didn't look remotely like a PL central midfielder to me. The same stats could make a case for Shola playing well, which would also be bollocks. It's partly because these stats do not tell us how many passes each player made. If milner attempted 100 passes, and made 41, and shola attempted 15 passes, and made 11, then milner probably had the better more influential game.

I can't believe some of the views in this thread. Amazing. We may not have got a result against bolton at home, but the intent we played with was miles better than under sam. SA would have had us sat in our own half, long-ballin it to ameobi, and seeing it come back on us, and they would have penned us in as we would have no attacking intent, and eventually broken us down for a goal. Our retaining of possession yesterday was, whilst not being perfect, miles better than anything we have seen in the last year. Enrique was decent yesterday too. Did well with clearances, dropped his right shoulder and beat his man on a couple of occassions and passed it reasonably well. He didn't have many options but used those he had open to him in neat triangles. The worst player yesterday by far was Ameobi who, even though he has been out for a long time, does not have any ounce of vision in him whatsoever, and if he did, he wouldn't have the physical ability to pull off the pass/shot/cross that he sees. Roz did well playing out of position. He didn't get forward but that wasn't his job. His job was to prevent the bolton midfield 3 running through the middle of us and shooting at goal, an bolton didn't have much joy down the middle all match (admittedly partly because they didn't really try to put anything together down the middle). He won some good headers, and sprayed some nice passes. That's all you can ask of a CB come DM. the intent is there on the pitch, now we just need the acknowledgement and time from the fans.

The year either side of world cup 2002 i would have said duff was one of the best wingers in the world. I can't think of 10 wingers at the time who were playing better, so he makes top 10 for me.

If we're talking dream tickets that may be realistic (slightly) and fit in with what the chairman has said, then Houllier as manager to the end of the season and then as DOF with Scolari as manager after the Euros sounds good to me. Scolari wants to play the correct type of football, his teams also have good defence. He has experience, but not of the premiership (and not of club euro) but Houllier could give him all the help he needs without stifling scolari's tactical ideas. If we had this combination managing us, i think there would be some genuine looks of fear and envy throughout the premiership. It would be like the sudden intake of breath when one sees a dark sillhouette of a man walking up their stairs at night time with a knife-like shape in his hands, only to find that their husband/son has come home late with a half-empty can and a newspaper. (in other words, fear of unknown potential, suspected to be possibly devastating!)

mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif I'm not sure whether to laugh at TM's childish discovery or Mark Viduka apparently getting read to lose his 'sprinting virginity'. Dash my a*** lol

But McClaren appears to be a very remote prospect after Newcastle owner Mike Ashley quipped last month that the former Boro manager was "there with the ex-wife on the 'Do not get a Christmas card' list". Gotta love that from Mike Ashley, quality stuff. (from article on bbc sport website btw)

James wins best gag by far!! But... concerning your ratings: geremi better than butt; owen better than martins; and ramage on a 4 when his performances merit a 3 plus lengthy spells on the sidelines injured can lose you points, so really he should be around the '0' level. That is all

We don't do those at Newcastle. What about at Stoke? :razz:

Skim read the thread so sorry if some points repeated (they probably will be), but for me: - Play with more adventure. Teams like Fulham see Derby, Sunderland etc as matches they have to win to stay up, and so go to those 'relegation 6-pointer' matches looking for a win. Why do NUFC turn up for a draw? - SA to come out and explain his tactics and aims. There's no use him just saying the fans are wrong and that he will win in spite of us. He needs to talk to us, explain to us his aims, give us a chance to buy into his ideas, giving us a greater chance of uniting behind him and having a joint 'f*** the media' outlook when they have a go at us. - More emphasis on the technical abilities of our players. Passing and movement at a higher tempo, as opposed to chasing, harrying and pressing being the highest priority. - Pick the team based on form. If smith plays crap, drop him. If Steve Harper plays well, keep him. - Acknowledge and admit his own shortcomings. I'm sick of hearing how he is a 'top man in his field'. All the top men in my field (law) have major awards and commendations as recognition of their work. SA has won s**** all!

I was going to start a new thread for this, but thought it pointless, so i'll do it here. Let's list all the positive changes that sam has made to this club. I'll start: 1. isn't letting shola ameobi near the first team 2. got rid of bramble, babayaro, sibierski moore et al 3. brought in some decent signings given our financial situation and reputation (i.e. cacapa, faye, enrique, geremi, viduka) 4. Released Albert Luque, one of the few players who is ideally suited to the left side of a 433, meaning we could play the natural born left winger james milner there (if luque never left, we would not have realised milner's true position) 5. tried to convert nobby solano into a holding midfield player, after circa 14 professional years as a right sided midfielder who can fill in at left back 6. bought alan smith, a fighter and a leader who embodies the manager's spirit out on the pitch 7. brought a top class fitness plan, that wowed the fans pre-season with heart rate monitors on the players in austria, and has already proved its success with late wins over birmingham and fulham (ignoring the fact that assist for both late goals came from substitutes) 8. Training emphasis on fitness and stamina, which everyone in the professional world knew needed sorting at newcastle 9. rugby-style microphone technology, so he can control the action from up in the stands in the first half 10. saved costs in ball boys, as they are not needed as much cause the fans up in the stands get to throw the ball back onto the pitch more, due to our scientific percentages tactics 11. made an effort to win the fans over, telling them that he understands their frustration, and that we will understand his forward-thinking genius when his contract is over and we see the club is moving forward (though i'm not sure if that will be due to the fact he is leaving, or the fact that he'll have improved us). Anybody else care to throw some positives in? This regime is far from dead i tell thee!!

I don't think SA is necessarily a bad manager, but he needs to adjust his mentality fast or he's going to lose newcastle united's supporters, board, and job! Simple as. At the start of this season i posted along the lines of SA's mentality is not right for newcastle: he doesn't want to dominate games and dominate the football. i also asked if he brought any tactical positives to the job, as in my eyes he was little more than a footballing clive woodward, employing fancy dan science techniques and countless other coaches to do the job for him, whilst sitting in an overseeing role. for me, he's not showed the slightest bit of tactical nous, and absolutely no desire to play football (whether good or bad). He simply wants the team to participate

I think SBR was trying to illustrate that some strikers find it harder to convert chances from both flanks when they are in position not that some strikers don't keep up with the move etc. It's because it requires different body positioning, just like shooting with the left foot is more difficult because the right leg is often not used as the standing leg and so is not well placed or braced, getting the body in the correct position for headers from the left may be more difficult for some strikers. I don't think owen counts as favouring the right more than the left as he converts any chance he gets. We just don't make many chances, regardless of from the left or the right

By glitter you mean... trophies... right?? Well i'll take that! Isn't that what all of us on this forum desire?

by the way, attempted pedantry is pretty sad YG

Correct. 433 is 'kak'! But SA doesn't play 442 unless he has to (i.e. owen's fit) so that's the best team i think he could play against wigan. After all, this is the pre-match thread. If it was a 'what is your best newcastle team at the moment if we had a decent manager with tactical acumen' then i might go: --------------Given Beye--Taylor--Cacapa--Enrique Duff------Faye---Emre---Zogs --------Viduka---Martins/owen Barton coming on for Emre late, depending on how we're doing

Emre should start every match. All this talk of him fading late so he should be subbed is crap. Play emre from the start, let him create chances for us, we approach the 70 min mark in front for once, and then get him off for another midfielder. What the frig is so hard about that?

--------------Given Beye--Taylor--Cacapa--Enrique --------------Faye --------Barton----Emre ---Duff----------------N'Zogbia --------------Viduka The triumverate of Faye Cacapa Taylor is the strongest defensive spine we can put out. Great for heading aerial balls (Faye covers Cacapa's sometimes slight weakness at this) plus Faye's pace, strength and mobility will be an asset. Allows Emre and Barton to roam if necessary, Duff on the right would give emre options on both wings of players who can use their first touch as an asset, not as a challenge to be overcome (milner). Vids scores goals, and his hold up play would allow barton to overtake the ball and run past defences, plus duff and zogs going through off their wings ala classic away day ljungberg

I would like to make a point in general which applies as much to discussion of formations and players. People tend to globalise statistics and examples too much and i think it can cloud meaningful discussions. For (a non-footballing) example, if a doctor tells you that an elderly relative is going to live in pain for the next 3 months, and only has a 2% chance of recovery, most people would think 'she's a goner, there is no chance, it would be better to let her die peacefully by switching the machine off'. However, across the population, when everybody thinks the same thing, then not 1 elderly person will survive. However small statistics are, they are there because they DO happen. I think this applies to footballers in the following way. We all tend to say 'blah blah has a bad touch, he can't do this, he's rubbish at that' but we forget to mention the exceptions to the rule. For every 'viduka is to slow to get in the box for crosses' see 'west ham at home first goal'. If you make 10 chances a game, it only takes 1 'exception' to get you a one nil win. If SA is able to strengthen the defence as everyone thinks he will, then the supposed weaknesses of players and the whole team is minimised.

Given

Coach HTT, i give you credit for the post even if i disagree with a lot of your points. If you want to call a 4411 a different formation to a 442, then that's your prerogative. However, to me, that's a 442. Simple as. If one striker always tackles back in a 442 (ala heskey in the owen partnership at liverpool) that does not mean a 4411 is being played. Arsenal mainly play 442, with Persie and Adebayor up front. Due to injuries they have adapted, but will revert to 442 shortly. 433 does not have to dominate a 442, as in response all a 442 has to do is involve the spare centre half in bringing the ball out more, matching the midfield 3 and utilising the extra man they have up front. Saying that a 442 cannot convert to an attacking 4 as it will lose its shape is just plain wrong. Man utd's team recently have lined up: Ronaldo..Hargreaves..Anderson..Giggs with Tevez and Rooney up front. When they go forward, Ronaldo and Giggs often get to the byeline or box like traditional wingers, making it 4 up front if you like, with anderson and hargreaves supporting from deep. this is the same in most 442s. Saying that a 442 isn't flexible as it cannot change into a 'diamond' or other shape is also wrong. It's still a 442, just one central midfielder pushes up, the other sits. So for classic man u of the 90s, where keane sat, scholes pushed on. I didn't watch the liverpool man u game on the weekend, but the experts on match of the day seemed to think they lined up 442, and it looked like that in the highlights. Now, talk of them playing it like 'chess' and not 'boxing' is just silly. Firstly, boxing can be as tactical and smart-thinking as chess, if not moreso. Similarly, chess can be a game of less thinking and all out warfare (read up on Mikhael Tal, multiple world champion, his style of play was gung-ho). Besides failed analogies (that coat thing was unpleasant to read) a 442 does not mean you have to throw caution to the wind. You can request wingers not to venture as far forward, and make sure if they go that the central midfielders sit, aye. But you can do that in any formation. If the instructions are not to go forward, that doesn't mean that all of a sudden a 442 is not being played as we're playing the chess 433 or whatever. It just means the men in the 442 have been told to be cautious. Anyway, that is all for now, i await your respone, and will carry on the debate with you. It's good to see some honest open discussion on a forum without petty name calling etc, and adds to my overall enjoyment of the best sport in the world!! (football, not chess

Would you give a s*** if we were winning? Well, he hasn't scored goals, and we havent been winning as well as we'd like. We have a really tough 2nd half of the season, and will need both strikers (and contributions from MF) if we are to pick up enough wins to finish in the top 8. That wasn't the question - just taking him to task regarding this goals thing, it's a load of bollocks. If a team is winning, it doesn't matter that one of your strikers isn't scoring. He is obviously contributing elsewhere, and others are obviously making up for his shortfall as the team is winning. Of course I appreciate that we aren't winning, or at least not consistently and as such Smith's lack of scoring becomes more of a problem. I'm certain he will score a few this season - bear in mind he has played what, 3 games up front this season? Give him a run of 10 starts on the trot up front, I would expect 1-3 goals from him, but I would also expect to see us winning and keeping the ball in opposition territory a lot more, leading to more goals from others. Another sensible post. Good stuff. The people who are only able to judge a footballer on stats will be cringing. News just in, Sam Allardyce cringed so hard the skin on his cheeks fell off...both cheeks...all his cheeks