Mick

Reality being that we spent 4 months trying to work out if we wanted Kuyt, during that time, while we dithered, Liverpool made a decision that they did want him and they went for him and got him, in reality a fact, in your head, nobody knows. As for taking into account how our players played for previous clubs, it's you who seems to have problems with that and certain players, you take it into account with Duff but not with certain others, more hypocrisy on your part.

bluelaugh.gif Same old excuses, I thought you were investing in a new PC?

I'm not convinced that he's getting the best out of what he's got, at least not over the course of the season so far. It appears that this only happens when he doesn't have to make a decision and that's damning in my eyes because that tells me that he's a big problem as a manager and his decision making is flawed.

Well said. I understand the need for patience and realism but if we aim low we will not get anywhere. People overrating the likes of Moore and Ramage, people chuffed to bits scraping last-minute home wins against Watford and Reading, they are the ones who need a reality check in my view. If we want to climb the table we have to raise the bar. Other teams aren't going to sit around and wait for us. Bolton and Portsmouth are right up there challenging for the Champions League with very average squads, they're aiming high and deserve to be up there. Bolton and Portsmouth for christ sake. We should be taking a look at ourselves and saying that's where we ought to be. Not in two years or five years but this season. And here we are talking about the top half of the table like it's a dream. I have never seen the kind of knee-jerk reactions that we have witnessed this season. We win a couple of games with three academy lads and suddenly there are people out there who would rather see Edgar in the team than Babayaro. Totally over the top. Right now I think we're a club with an identity crisis. We have the finances to challenge top 6 comfortably but much of it was blown on a few players who haven't contributed (Boumsong, Luque, Owen). We've gone from 5th to 14th to 7th and now nobody knows where we stand in the Premiership's short-term future. My view is that outside the top four it is all there for the taking and all this talk of patience is just preparing for failure IMO. Roeder has made the best of a bad situation in my eyes. But he must take some responsibility for the bad situation in the first place. To steal a quote from nufc.com, it is an absolute joke that we have to watch 4 academy centre-backs protecting a keeper old enough to be their dad. You couldn't make it up. It's a testament to our catastrophic failure in the transfer market. However much involvement Freddy had, I find it incredible that some people try to completely absolve the manager from any blame for what happened in August. I have never seen a club so ill prepared for a transfer window, even by Newcastle United's standards it was shocking. I agree with most of that, Charlton have 1 point away from home, guess where they amassed that total? Our ground is the only one they've visited and came away with less than 2 goals against so far this season in the league. Sheffield United arrived with only 1 away point, they went away from Newcastle with 4, we were terrible and as bad as anything played under souness. Roeder has done better this season when the team has almost picked itself, when he's had decisions to make he's failed. It will be interesting when the injured players return and he has to either stick with the ones who have turned our season around, or will he automatically restore the players who failed earlier?

bluelaugh.gif bluelaugh.gif The conclusion being that Martins wasn't first choice, Kuyt was. Roeder dithered for so long he missed the person that he chased from April and was still scouting in August when he eventually signed for Liverpool. As for Duff preferring Newcastle, so far that one hasn't gone in our favour, the fact that you are quite happy to have him here because of the way he played at Blackburn is laughable. It's a pity you didn't allow all of our incoming transfers the same amount of slack while adjusting at a new club, in some instances a new country.

I'll go with that. bluebiggrin.gif

"I doubt he did much research into the players we brought in during the last transfer window" You doubt but you don't know and neither do I. Most of what you have said about Roeder is based on heresay not fact. For example, there were rumours that Martins wasn't Roeder's first choice. There were also rumours that Martins was Shepherd's choice. Roeder has said Martins was his first choice. Who do we believe? 99% of what the media say is going to happen with transfers never happen. We only know for sure about the transfers that happened. We have no idea who else we were really after. Players could have been turned down due to what the research turned up. Just because the media say the manager is watching a certain player it doesn't mean for a fact they were. They could have been watching someone else. Roeder said he wanted Martins and the club was linked to him for a while before he signed. Don't expect thickmick to take that on board, or expect him to take a realistic view of how transfers are conducted in the real world. He still thinks we are no better than when we spent years in the old 2nd division and selling our best players when we did get promoted. bluelaugh.gif bluelaugh.gif The club wasn't linked to Martins until August of this year when he handed in a transfer request after Inter singed a couple of forwards, Shepherd and Roeder both started talking about Kuyt being on interest in April, work it out yourself if that's possible.

"I doubt he did much research into the players we brought in during the last transfer window" You doubt but you don't know and neither do I. Most of what you have said about Roeder is based on heresay not fact. For example, there were rumours that Martins wasn't Roeder's first choice. There were also rumours that Martins was Shepherd's choice. Roeder has said Martins was his first choice. Who do we believe? 99% of what the media say is going to happen with transfers never happen. We only know for sure about the transfers that happened. We have no idea who else we were really after. Players could have been turned down due to what the research turned up. Just because the media say the manager is watching a certain player it doesn't mean for a fact they were. They could have been watching someone else. Martins not being first choice is based on him (Roeder) scouting Kuyt for so long, we were supposedly watching Kuyt last April and sent David Mills to watch him. Both Roeder and Shepherd were talking about Kuyt from April onwards, they both said we were watching Kuyt and were interested in him, Roeder was supposedly on his way to see him the day Kuyt signed for Liverpool. I think it's fairly safe to say that Martins wasn't even on the radar at that time.

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Hooper must have been Keegans worst signing, he (Keegan) spat his dummy out once because of the stick Hooper was getting. Hooper is probably the worst keeper we've ever had although Hardwick had his off days.

I know how you feel, I went to the old ground a few times and it was a shithole, it was never top of the wish list for away games.

Nolan hardly touched him man. He got 2 hands on him and clearly gave Ramage a good shove in the back. It should have been spotted by the linesman, but in the abscence of a flag, i think Snriceck was at fault and not Ramage. I said the other night that folk were being too sentimental about Pav and should remember its a long time since he played first team football never mind top class premiership football. He was always prone to a few clangers which was why Keegan bought both Hooper and Hislop, both of whom displaced pav from the 1st team at one time or another. It's right about Hooper and Hislop displacing Pav but I'd rather have kept him in goal than those two, especially the first clown.

bluebiggrin.gif Is this the hangover?

Roeder said something negative about the academy when taking over as manager, something along the lines of not having anybody who would come through and play for the first team, or words to that effect. As for him stopping wasting fortunes on signing unresearched players, I doubt he did much research into the players we brought in during the last transfer window, three of them seemed to be last minute panics. Duff didn't require researching, Martins, I don't know, I'm not sure how much or how little Roeder knew about him. When he did spend time researching he had the player nicked from his grasp by Liverpool while he was still scouting him. That's the only time I can think of Roeder spending time looking at a player unless he was following Man U, Man City and Rangers reserves. Of course he could have spent all of his free time watching youtube videos as long as it wasn't World Cup action as he said he wouldn't be watching players at the World Cup, again, or words to that effect.

So do you what? Actually, so do I if it's what I think it is. bluebiggrin.gif

it must have been thick mick then !!! SShhh...he thinks everyone who agrees with me is my brother Almost 7 weeks for that reply, jesus wept you're a sad man old Steve.. you mean you're counting :lol: Of course I'm counting, it's got nothing to do with the fact that everytime somebody posts a date and time is left at the top of the post. :roll:

it must have been thick mick then !!! SShhh...he thinks everyone who agrees with me is my brother Almost 7 weeks for that reply, jesus wept you're a sad man old Steve..

I give you Ozzie Mandiarse, resident mackem-ite who lives in a shed like all mackems ........who supported Souness to the end so much so that he disappeared for months when he was sacked - and a man who thinks the player who scored TWO league goals in his last season was a "legend" ....... and loves Newcastle so much he dug the dirt on the club to an anti-geordie cockney lundun journo Good job he didn't appoint Souness or you would slaughter him, my mistake, you wouldn't slaughter him, you would say that Ozzie was the best supporter that we'd had for decades and only supports England internationals and had supported us throughout Europe more times that all but supporters of 4 other clubs over the last 10 years. Have I missed anything? Apart from :finger:

Correct.

Cheeky get. bluebiggrin.gif

I might be wrong but I guess that he doesn't give a shit while discussing bellamy and Martins.

edited for truth before my brother does it while pretending not to be related so that he can be the only person to back me up, we'll deny being related though. The bloke who complains when others edit his posts.

Only agree in part, get the facts right. bluebiggrin.gif

Boumsong 8m. Luque 9.5m What has that got to do with either Bellamy or Martins? I am not the slightest bit surprised you don't understand this. I'm running a bit slow today.