Kitman

Me too Or turn it the other way around... What happens to our ability to borrow/pay off loans when all the cash in the company has been given away? I am seriously interested in what happens when shareholders sell up. My site is there to try and explain the clu's finances. I totally accept I'm no more than a keen amateur in these things, and I need to know more. If you have a good concise explanation of what difference it would make if the share price went down, or up, then I will happily include it. (It has to have no jargon in it ) As far as not paying dividends having a negative effect on share-price, surely it doesn't make any difference ? Pay dividends and business has less assets and is worth less, so share price drops, investors see some short term gain so buy. So share price nets out as unchanged. Don't pay dividends and business is worth more so share price rises, but has less short term enticement to an investor so the price nets out as unchanged. Roughly Macbeth - Vic's point was that if the NUFC plc shareholders (and I'm sure he'll clarify whether he meant all the shareholders or just Shepherd/Halls when he explains his point in more detail) sell their shares, it will affect in some way our ability to borrow/pay off our loans. I don't think he was talking about the effect of dividend policy on share price. My understanding is that stripping out cash whether by dividend or share buy back is the preserve of successful businesses that have no current need for the cash. Was NUFC plc making profits at the time the dividends were paid out? In view of the club's high gearing and its cash hungry nature, and the financial importance of success on the field every year to generate money to finance debt repayment, transfers and wages, with the benefit of hindsight it would have been more sensible to keep the cash in the bank at least over the medium term, but it's up the directors running the club to decide based on the position at the time. My guess is the perilous state of the Halls finances has by and large driven the dividend and the share buy back policy. Maybe that's the danger of the shareholders running the club rather than an independent board. Shepherd is a beneficiary of this policy but has reinvested his money in buying more of the club's shares (the money going to the shares' previous owner not into the club). Of course the shareholders are perfectly entitled to dividends, however much it rankles, if the club's earned the profits to pay them. However I think it's a very short termist attitude and do other football clubs exept Man Utd pay dividends to shareholders?

From the accounts in 2003 ... "....Under the terms of the securitisation, funds have to be held ina designated account to meet the annual capital and interets repayment due on 30 September each year. An additional amount, equivalent to 50% of forthcoming repayment has to be held in a separate desinated account on a permanent basis. These funads are not therefore available to the Group as part of working capital. At 31 July 2003 the balace held in these accounts was £9.4m (2002 £9.4m)" followed by "The Group has in issue £52.9m of senior loan notes with a fixed interest rate of 7.43%" They could probably get a lot better rate than the 7.43%, even in their precarious position, as they can prove previous abilityto pay. If the club had not paid any dividends, and had not bought back shares from the Halls, and had used that £35m on paying of the stadium, then they would now have no repayments left to make. (Get EXcel going, do a mortgage calcualtion with 17 years at 7.43% on 52m, then add £4m to the payments, and voila nothing left) nothing to do with it so tell me btw, why would any shareholder keep their shares in a devaluing company if no dividend was issued for 10 years? you do know what happens to our ability to borrow / pay off loans when shareholders start to sell up don't you? or is that not in the Excel help files? Some interesting points there Vic, why not elaborate on exactly what you mean? What would happen to our ability to borrow/pay off loans if the shareholders started to sell up & why?

Isn't he 28? I got the impression Roeder was going for younger players. Plus doesn't he have a poor injury record? And look like half man half baked bean?

Let's see how the knee holds up. And the hamstrings. I'm not getting my hopes up for next season just yet.

"To be fair to the lad I've never heard of him" :confused2:

He sounds like a headcase. I wonder if they'd invite him to the Christmas party?

The club is in a downward spiral......the manager has run out of ideas.......the season tickets need renewing...........the toon is despondent...........the fans are miserable........the answer is blindingly obvious: we need a TROPHY SIGNING!!! I can see it now: hordes of charva kids & the unemployed descending on SJP, the new strips flying off the shelves & ready for printing; a few fat retarded care in the community patients for Sky to interview; someone saying "We're gannu win the league noo like" on national TV; a beaming chairman shaking hands with our new signing proudly saying something uplifting like "Only Geordies know how to put on a welcome like this"; and Roeland Rat scuttling about in the background trying to make out signing a seventh striker was all his idea. Yes, bring back those great days Freddy! It worked before, it can work again! Don't listen to these oafs talking about buying defenders! WE NEED A TROPHY SIGNING! Come on Fatso, where's your cheque book? :icon_biggrin:

The thing is Alex dividends are a good thing, but imo we have regularly paid too high dividends. This has stopped recently as FS and to his credit can't justify dividends due to poor financial performance. The summer of 2003 is where it is at yes. Wasn't it the summer of 69?

.com are all right by me. I'd feel worse off if they didn't bother.

He can train as hard as he likes, nothing will get the size of his head down now

Lay off him ffs, he's being continually played out of position. They should stick him in goal where nothing would get past his great big round head and bloated fat arse.

I follow what you're saying but I don't agree with all of it. As I said before (no back-up for this mind) the club doesn't make that much money out of the UEFA cup.....the TV deals are with people like Setanta and C5, there's no big TV money till you get to the semis or final stage when it gets on the major channels. The gates aren't that great and half the matches are usually at little away grounds in some Eastern European backwater. Not a lot of money there. As far as players go, most big name players want to be playing in the CL not the Intertoto. Is it really that big a draw? And if it's the difference between players staying or going, then f*** them, they obviously weren't trying hard enough in the first place. Your point about buying overrated players on inflated terms is a good one, but I think you'll find we've been doing that for years, Europe or not. That's because unless and until we return to the CL, we won't be a destination for top players without dangling massive amounts of money under their/their clubs' noses. I agree with everything you say if you're talking about the CL. But the Intertoto? I can't help we view ourselves as a club that HAS to be in Europe so we crucify ourselves to progress in it at the cost of injuries and underchieving elsewhere. But the reality is our squad isn't good enough or deep enough to compete on all these different fronts - I mean, Huntington at left back for f***'s sake? I think we're kidding ourselves and our vanity isn't doing us any favours in the league or domestic cups.....

Plainly Roeder agrees with me and is ensuring we don't qualify for the Intertoto. There can't be any other reason can there?

i think you'd need to win it to get that, and even that might be stretching it. I agree with NM, that was my sense too. We'd get more by going up the league a few places.

I've learnt over the years that whenver the club builds your expectation up, it always slaps you down. It's not been too hard since Sir Bobby went to keep a lid on any real hope, but anytime there's a little glimmer of expectation, it gets smashed to pieces. This was one of those times and it hurts. But, you know, in the end that's our club, however much it disappoints us, it's still our club and that's all there is to it. So another season's over and roll on next year. We'll get it right some day

I don't think we make that much from Europe actually. The major money's in the TV money when you get to the final, I recall they said that when Celtic got there

Well, another season over then :'( As we survey the wreckage of more mediocrity and incompetence, we consider many things: - the need to jettison an utterly useless back line - the need to jettison some useless midfield players - the need to jettison a mediocre manager - the need to jettison a useless Board And yet you can't do everything at once.....the Board's here to stay, Roeder will still be dazzling us with his tactical brilliance next season, I fully expect most of the useless shite to be give yet another chance due to Roeder's inability to sign anybody decent. Ho hum. However one thought occurs.....maybe we should give the Intertoto a miss if, by some miracle, we qualify again? Give our players a proper holiday (not that they deserve it) and pre-season, cut down on the games, concentrate on the league and cups and most importantly of all STOP PRETENDING WE ARE A EUROPEAN POWERHOUSE (take note O Fat One). The reality is with Roeder in chance we stand no chance of winning against clever European coaches. Our season starts in the summer and carries on till the late spring (although technically it's usually over in Jan/Feb). We're constantly top of the injuries league. Our players have delusions of grandeur. I don't think it's a coincidence. Thoughts please

I'm for a limited re-introduction myself. Terraces were great.....you never had to walk to the bog in those days :icon_biggrin:

The BBC reports momentum is growing for the limited re-introduction of terraces: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6444083.stm Where do you stand on the issue? Or would you be happier sat on your plastic seat wrapped in your tartan blanket, eh?

He sounds like Ming the Merciless. Or General Melchett from Blackadder. "Naaa-aay sir, there's no room for fear in this army!" :icon_biggrin:

Oh lordy

http://www.popmatters.com/film/images/991213-greenmile2.jpg "Come along quietly now Titus, we just want to have a little chat about one of your parties....."

Past it, tbh. Him or us?

http://www.lemmon.k12.sd.us/ttl/images/People/fat.jpg WELCOME BACK STEPHEN, YAY! :indi:

Has anybody considered Hitzfeld for the toon? I hear he's rather good :icon_biggrin: