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Decide to come out and play? I take it you missed yesterday's game? No, they were excellent yesterday. But it'll be different against Barca. Last year, they had a team which was fantastic going forward and yet they sat back for 180 minutes. This year, their defense is better but their attack is not as explosive, so I think it's likely that they'll sit back and look to counter-attack. But I hope Fergie tells his players to attack because they can score against Barca and it'll be a good game for the neutral fan to watch.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/265375.html Great article on Barca's team.

I'm starting this thread because I'm still hyped after Iniesta's goal Barca's probable line-up: Valdes; Sylvinho, Pique, Caceres, Puyol; Toure, Xavi, Iniesta; Henry, Eto'o, Messi. Man Utd's probable line-up: van der Sar; Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea; Carrick, Park, Anderson; Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov. I think Fergie may play Anderson to specifically track Iniesta but if he doesn't, then surely Scholes has to start. Berbatov will probably start if he's fit because he's the £30m man and Tevez has been complaining a lot recently. Barca's defense looks weak, especially if they have to shift Puyol to RB to mark Rooney/Ronaldo. I hope it's a good, entertaining game but that'll only happen if Man Utd decide to come out and play as well. Prediction: Barca 2-1

Didn't we put a £6m bid on Fletcher and moved it onto Smith when it was rejected?

I disagree with their tactics in the first game. The 0-0 benefits neither team. Barca wanted to score a few and secure the tie, Chelsea needed the away goal because it would have meant that Barca needed to attack from the start. Same scenario as last year. The fact that both Man Utd and Chelsea scored awesome goals doesn't mean that the tactics they employed produced the highest probability of them winning. You can't bank on a Scholes 30 yard strike into the top corner. You can't bank on an Essien half-volley with his weaker foot to hit the underside of the bar and bounce in. It's not something that you can rationally expect before the game. Yeah, Man Utd won last year and Chelsea were a minute or so from winning today but from an objective standpoint, the tactics they employed didn't give them a great chance of winning the whole tie because they still had to score and neither of them showed any intent of scoring before the wonder goals. In the long-run, if this Barca team can continue playing this way, they'll dominate the CL every year because the type of goals they score and their style of play means it's easier to score goals/dominate matches whereas Chelsea are always one goal away from being knocked out. From a probability standpoint, because of the possession and chances that Barca normally create, they're more likely to win matches than the team they're playing against. If Man Utd and Barca played against each other 10 times last season, I'd bet that Barca would come out on top more often than Man Utd did because the way they dictate the game, pass the ball and attempt to score makes it much more likely that they will in fact score more goals than any other team. I'm speaking on statistical terms, though, so this obviously rules out a bunch of 30 yard strikes by Scholes because of how unlikely it is.

Agreed. But it's one game. Let's hold off the 'Barca isn't as good as everyone thought' crap and look at the other 50 games they've played this season.

Bang on. Specially the last sentence, was another boring match up until the end tonight I thought, much more exciting when Chelsea were in possession too. Only really boring because of one team, unfortunately. Not totally, Barca's need to keep the ball no matter what kills the game stone dead iyam, yes they're great at keeping the ball but they try to over do it. They take any pace and excitement out the game but this dreary three yard pass and move game that a lot of the time gets them nowhere is very boring to me. Give me a premiership game any day of the week, not as pretty but a hell of a lot more entertaining. They only do it because teams have 11 men behind the ball. There isn't any space for them to play through balls or dribble into. It's all congested because of the other team's defensive strategy (which has been effective about 4 or 5 times out of 50 = 10% success rate).

Spot on! I hate to say it, but I love watching Man U at their best. Agree also, but further than just as a spectacle, attacking in the style of a Man Utd is way more effective than Arsenal/Barca's walk-it-in strategy. Invariably sides with good defenders/grafters will just park the bus, and it will be somewhat ineffectual for Barca/Arsenal. I think France struggled in the same way after they won Euro 2000 - they struggled in qualifiers to break down poor, poor teams and drew 0-0 against Israel etc because despite their plethora of talent, they had no penetration. "No edge... no eye of the tiger " I can't believe you've just said that. There's a thing called 'small sample size' in statistics, look it up. Just because Barca couldn't score in one game against Chelsea doesn't mean that you can conclude that their style is ineffective. In fact, I'd say the 100 (yes, one fucking hundred) goals they've scored in the league this season, plus the 30 they've scored in the CL (leading the charts in terms of total scored and goals scored per match) shows that their style is incredibly effective. I'd like you to say to the other 37 teams in La Liga, especially Real Madrid, who've been thumped for 8 goals this season, that all they needed to do was park the bus and that's Barca contained.

You've put it much better than I've tried to for the past hour. Thanks

Bang on. Specially the last sentence, was another boring match up until the end tonight I thought, much more exciting when Chelsea were in possession too. Only really boring because of one team, unfortunately.

20 pass move leading to a simple tap in > 3 pass incisive counter-attack leading to a goal, in my opinion. Both are obviously much more favourable than fouling when you can't get the ball to slow the other team down, diving again and again to win penalties, camping in your own half for 180 minutes trying not to lose a goal and every other shit that teams pull when they play Barca. Barca ftw.

Team possession % average/match Barcelona 62 % Real Madrid 56 % Bremen 56 % Man. United 54 % PSV 54 % Zenit 54 % Arsenal 54 % Bordeaux 53 % Villarreal 52 % Panathinaikos 51 % Fenerbahçe 51 % Liverpool 51 % Shakhtar 50 % Bayern 50 % Internazionale 50 % Marseille 50 % Chelsea 50 % Not even fuckin' close.

Team fouls suffered/match total fouls suffered Anorthosis 18.5 111 Barcelona 18.25 219 Panathinaikos 18.13 145 Juventus 18.13 145 Real Madrid 18.13 145

What's the best feeling in football as a fan? Seeing a goal scored. Why is football often called the beautiful game? Because of the movement, the fluidity - 'poetry in motion'. I cited the way kids play football above because that's when none of the bullshit has set in. No money involved, no win-at-all-costs mentality, no diving. It's a game, at the end of the day, and Barca play it the way it's supposed to. Team fouls/match Total fouls Liverpool 17.5 175 Chelsea 17.42 209 Bremen 17 102 Anorthosis 16.33 98 Celtic 16.17 97 Bayern 15.9 159 Roma 15.88 127 Atlético 15.88 127 CFR Cluj 15.33 92 Zenit 15.17 91 Arsenal 14.83 178 Real Madrid 14.5 116 Porto 14.5 145 Basel 14 84 AaB 13.33 80 Man. United 13.08 157 Villarreal 12.9 129 Barcelona 11.5 138 Marseille 10.33 62 Liverpool ain't top, I just cut out the top half of the table to show difference between the teams that matter.

I'm glad Barca are through but that's rubbish. The English invented the game and we've never produced sides that play anything like the football Barca play. It's irrelevant that the English have never produced sides like Barca because that may been their aim the whole time but they just couldn't achieve it. I'm also pretty sure the inventors of the game never imagined that set-pieces, fouls, defensive tactics etc. would twist what football's actually all about. I'm also not sure your statement is true anyway because there have been some awesome football sides over the past 150 years, even though Barca are fucking incredible. But, I mean, why do fouls exist? To make sure that the team that disrupts the game is punished, I'm guessing. The fact that teams like Chelsea actually use fouling to their advantage is twisting how football's meant to be played. A foul is punishment when you make a mistake, but when Iniesta is purposely hacked down again and again whenever he skips away from a Chelsea midfielder, I think that Chelsea are ruining football on purpose. The rules that have been created so that teams that aim to play football fairly benefit but teams like Chelsea and others (Bolton and Stoke, for example) try to win at the cost of actually playing the game. Of course, they do things that are legal (like long throws) but I can't help but feel that they, and many other teams, miss the real point of the game. That's why I like Barca's team this season, a lot. They look like they enjoy playing, it's fucking fun to watch and like I said, they play it the way it's played when you're a kid and all every kid wants to do is score - none of this bs diving (Alves is exception), whining, long-throws, route-one shite. Just pass, move and score.

Look, football won tonight. The team that actually plays football as it is supposed to be played, the team that tries to do the thing that you most want to see in football (score) went through and so every neutral football fan should happy. If anyone's such a fan of defensive football, let me never hear you say a 0-0 match is boring. There was only one team over 180 minutes who tried to play football and they went through. Now I hope they fucking thump Man Utd.

Please explain these examples of Chelsea cheating. Maybe the red card can be considered a dive, but that is really on the ridiculously incompetent Norwegian man in the shiny black shirt. What else are you talking about? Drogba dropping like a fly on numerous occasions. Cole diving whenever anyone actually touched him. Ballack and Lampard with ticky-tacky fouls to stop the game. Iniesta constantly scythed down.

Apparently defending doesn't count anymore. It's like a dirty word now. If you go all out attack and neglect the defence then that's true football but if you set up defensively at the expense of the attack then that is totally wrong and evil and must be stopped. Football's about scoring goals. If you defend for 90 minutes, the best you can achieve is a 0-0. Surely you can see why people favour teams to attack rather than defend. If teams set up to defend all the time then not only is it shit to watch for the neutral (doesn't count for much, I admit) but it just goes against what the aim of football is: scoring goals.

No way, dude. Barca have been the better team over the two legs. Chelsea scored one magnificent goal but never made any attempt to attack. Barca have played excellent football and as a football fan, I'm so glad that Barca have scored a goal that they thoroughly deserved. what!? Barca had one shot on goal and in the 92nd minute! completely dominated by chelsea, messi, etoo etc were all shit. had their forwards been switched on and had the ref given the pen decisions they would've been a fair few goals clear. in the first leg barca were the better team but chelsea's defending was class which is just as much a part of the game as attacking and in the 2nd leg no contest. but you don't go through based on performances. Bossing it meaning let the other team play in your half? Come on, man. Valdes had two saves to make (drogba freekick and drogba 1v1), so it's not like they peppered his goal, is it? They probably deserved one or two penalties (not the 5 or 10 that they were whining about) but hey, if that's what they were relying on then tough luck for them. Maybe they should actually try and score a few goals the next time around. Football won today, there's no doubt about that. Even though Chelsea defended magnificently over these two legs, good defending alone doesn't win you anything. had they been more clinical and had the ref given the right decisions they couldve ran riot and demolished them, whereas iniesta's goal is basically the first real chance barca had all match. cant do much about the ref but finishing is part of the game so they can only blame themselves. wouldnt really say it is a victory for football as barcelona were terrible, very, very poor, though i think the final will now be more entertaining as a result. The referee thing, I agree with you. Chelsea would have won this tie if the referee did his job (including not sending off Abidal). But Chelsea 'demolishing' Barca? Agree to disagree. I thought Chelsea played a counter-attacking game but created only one real chance (Drogba's 1v1). The rest of their counter-attacks weren't dangerous, none of their shots troubled Valdes and they rarely had sustained possession within Barca's half. That, to me, says a lot about whether you can say that Chelsea bossed the game or not. I thought Barca passed the ball well enough, but lacked movement and the final ball in the final third of the pitch. But they still controlled the pace of the game and had much, much more of the possession. They weren't as dangerous as they normally are but to that I'll give Chelsea a lot of credit because their defenders were always able to usher any Barca player near the penalty area into a safer zone. It was a pretty even game imo and each team scored an awesome goal. The better team over the two legs, in my opinion, went through.

What the fuck? The Pique handball and maybe the challenge by Alves on Malouda. That's it. The rest of them really weren't. That's still two penalties! Yes, yes. I'm not going to argue that Chelsea didn't deserve the pens, of course they did. But if they had actually come out to play and tried to score, they probably would have because Barca's defense were very leaky tonight. But they didn't. They scored one and sat back, inviting Barca to play in their half and eventually they got punished. End of. Chelsea can fuck off. Now Barca will have Puyol and Henry back for the final, Keita can sit on the bench again and their midfield and starting trio will all start. Good shit. What a good day.

What the fuck? The Pique handball and maybe the challenge by Alves on Malouda. That's it. The rest of them really weren't.

No way, dude. Barca have been the better team over the two legs. Chelsea scored one magnificent goal but never made any attempt to attack. Barca have played excellent football and as a football fan, I'm so glad that Barca have scored a goal that they thoroughly deserved. what!? Barca had one shot on goal and in the 92nd minute! completely dominated by chelsea, messi, etoo etc were all shit. had their forwards been switched on and had the ref given the pen decisions they would've been a fair few goals clear. in the first leg barca were the better team but chelsea's defending was class which is just as much a part of the game as attacking and in the 2nd leg no contest. but you don't go through based on performances. Bossing it meaning let the other team play in your half? Come on, man. Valdes had two saves to make (drogba freekick and drogba 1v1), so it's not like they peppered his goal, is it? They probably deserved one or two penalties (not the 5 or 10 that they were whining about) but hey, if that's what they were relying on then tough luck for them. Maybe they should actually try and score a few goals the next time around. Football won today, there's no doubt about that. Even though Chelsea defended magnificently over these two legs, good defending alone doesn't win you anything.

No way, dude. Barca have been the better team over the two legs. Chelsea scored one magnificent goal but never made any attempt to attack. Barca have played excellent football and as a football fan, I'm so glad that Barca have scored a goal that they thoroughly deserved.

Viva football!! AHAHHAHAHAHAH Man, you gotta love this sport. You really, really do. Awesome.

INIESTA!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA