Dr Venkman

We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent? Hard to say, I don't know much about Demba Ba and have not seen enough of him. But my point stands, if he shows the form that Carroll was on, then Carroll would be irrelevant except for moaners who just want to moan for the sake of it. you point stands based on a presumption that can't be proved for a while, ok. irrelevant ffs he's the best striker we've had in ages, we need a striker, we sold him. it's no wonder he's being discussed.

i'm not sure he should be holding a grudge against Andy Carroll, given that he's the best thing that happened to him in 5 years running the club

We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent?

he'd have to increase the exposure to champions league levels for it to make a difference, i imagine the worldwide premier league coverage is enough

i think he's in the process of seeing that it is

That's not what I've heard. yeah i've heard it doesnt go anywhere near making up for it

i expect it'll get worse when Best gets injured

Oh no! Someone had a different opinion to you on an internet forum. They must be getting paid. If anyone on Ashley's payroll would like to contact me about disagreeing with HawK, or any other user, I'd be willing to listen to offers. The Carroll deal seemed to work well for everyone involved. We got a s*** load of cash, Carroll got a massive wage rise, Liverpool got a young, English striker and his agent made a fortune. As it has turned out, the money we received hasn't obviously been reinvested in the squad and we've not replaced him in the team and Carroll hasn't settled yet at Liverpool and hadn't come close to finding the same form for Liverpool that got him the transfer in the first place. I couldn't care less if it was 500m, he was a brilliant player for us, he wanted to stay. If a player wants to stay then no club should force them out, unless not doing so could cause serious financial difficulties. Our owner is a BILLIONAIRE, there is no excuse. Did he want to stay? Maybe he wasn't looking to leave at first but I'll bet the thought of moving to Liverpool really turned his head. We'll probably never know the real story. I'll point you again to this post : http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,58769.msg3202678.html#msg3202678 He said he wanted to stay, what more do you want? He also pointed to that fact that he had just signed a contract in October as a reason why he wanted to stay. Why then did he want to renegotiate again? I also wouldn't expect him to say that he couldn't wait to leave. Didn't he say he was happy to be with Liverpool? If he was gutted to leave, he got over it quick enough. I'm sorry, I just don't think the answer is cut and dried. It's not as simple as stay or go. I'm not defending the club. I'm not defending Andy Carroll either. If you were offered a job at a competitor for more money than what you are on, would you not first speak to your current employer to get them to match it? This is how the business world works. It doesn't have anything to do with him wanting to leave. And if they would refuse and tell you, you just had a payrise 3 months ago, and we tripled your wage. There will be no further raise at this moment of time. Would you end your job and go to the new company? Football is alot about money for players, regardless how much we'd like to differ. It's their job aswell. Trippling his wage twice in a year is insane for any employer. it's entirely dependent on what their worth to the company is and how quickly the employee is improving results. taking a financial example, do you reckon if someone showed such rapid improvement on the trading floor in wall street that the company wouldnt be very quickly re-negotiating their contract to make sure they kept the best staff? even if they'd recently done it? that's not the issue, the issue is what is the employee worth to you, Mike Ashley has no need for a great striker because you dont need a great striker to stay in the premier league, so he took the money. (none of this suggests Andy Carroll didnt move to Liverpool for the improved wages, my point is, we should have given them too him) i called this happening absolutely ages ago because MA doesnt want to pay the going rate for anything at all, this is in november 2010 after i said i thought he'd be within his rights to ask for a payrise at the end of last season and Nut said he would've thought he'd just gotten one before the season started was just thinking about this yesterday. they way i see it he'd be well within his rights to ask for a pay rise at the end of the season unless his form drops drastically. Would have thought he got that in the contract he just signed? aye mate. but if he keeps going the way he has been he's significantly more important to us than he was at the start of the season, top scorer, england striker, essential to the way we play, only getting better etc etc. i'm a firm believer in players getting paid what they're worth and i'd hate to see us try and rely on the fact that he's just signed a new deal to not give him what he deserves, coz he'll just f*** off. Agree with the paying what he's worth comment.My biggest concern is that M.A cashes in on his ever increasing value come the summer. i remember reading keegan's book and him talking about giving players pay rises when they didnt even ask for them! chairman's nightmare i'm sure and i'm not necessarily saying do that but if the club can afford it, do it. i wouldnt wanna see players being penalised financially for wanting to play for newcastle. regardless of whatever else he gets up to, on the pitch carroll's been sensational for us this season and i want us to keep him if he wants to stay. still though, every player that leaves us only does it for the money it's the owner that's at fault.

17. Seriously though, do you think we're fucking stupid?

fwiw i think you're right.

howay lads, we shopped him around and took the money, he took the money and went. pointless arguing about it anymore.

indeed, you need balance in a football team and he'd provide us with that. Best being better is wishful thinking in the extreme imo.

I think he's a fantastic talent, but not sure if I agree about us being a better team with him. I'd like to think we've evolved (or begun to evolve) away from a team which is built around him. howay mate, i admire your aspirations towards carpet football but we're a team that starts Peter Lovenkrands up front for f***s sake. there's no way on earth that's better than playing Carroll, we wouldnt have to build our team around him at all, it's fairly simple to set the team up to play the same but nick it in to Carroll if there's nowt else on. As a player who's great in the air and taking it on his chest, as well as tidy on the floor and good at bringing others into the game he'd improve us massively. Peter f***ing Lovenkrands ffs. Of course anyone would take Carroll ahead of what we've got but if we were really going to go back in for him I would rather spend that money on a different kind of striker instead. that's not the point that was being discussed

I think he's a fantastic talent, but not sure if I agree about us being a better team with him. I'd like to think we've evolved (or begun to evolve) away from a team which is built around him. howay mate, i admire your aspirations towards carpet football but we're a team that starts Peter Lovenkrands up front for fucks sake. there's no way on earth that's better than playing Carroll, we wouldnt have to build our team around him at all, it's fairly simple to set the team up to play the same but nick it in to Carroll if there's nowt else on. As a player who's great in the air and taking it on his chest, as well as tidy on the floor and good at bringing others into the game he'd improve us massively. Peter fucking Lovenkrands ffs.

Precisely. And pointing this out doesn't mean people are delighted with the end result either. It's a bitter, petty stance you get in lots of situations, reminds me of people saying "Well done, the invasion of Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam wasn't a great idea after all. All those soldiers died, you must be delighted we didn't win, congratulations." The people who were predicting transfer window failure seem more pissed off about it than the people who thought it would go well, if anything. But if someone's been smug and arrogant in dismissing people's concerns, of course he's going to get stick when those concerns turn out to be justified. I don't actually think that Ozzie really did believe a load of money was going to be spent, I think it's more that he's invested so much time and credibility in arguing with Leazes Mag about the old board (which then became new board/old board after the takeover) that he simply can't conceed on the virtues or otherwise of Ashley now. It's like if you've already sent £30,000 to Nigerian scammer or you've spent the last two years preaching Harold Camping's doomsday prophecy - it's easier to just hold firm no matter what than to budge even slightly and have to admit to others and, more importantly, to yourself that all the support and belief you ploughed into it might have been misplaced. so he's become NE5

we? indeed, speak for yourself 69. i thought it was utterly laughable that so many claimed Keegan wasn't to be listened to as he's just being bitter. he was just telling the truth as he saw it, and had a hell of a lot more insight than any of us.

you're all mental. he's certainly not shite and we'd definitely be a better team with him playing.

i can list 5 years worth of other ridiculous decisions if you like, but you probably wouldn't view that as evidence.

very much doubt he's leaving any time soon

Santon will play and rightly so, you've got to be bedding him in as early as possible given that our fixtures look pretty reasonable in the short term future. I think hopes of Tiote completely dominating Barton are a bit premature considering how poor the former has been so far. I think Tiote and Cabaye between them should have enough to see off Barton and Tarabt, but it'll be closer than some are predicting imo.

all valid queries, unfortunately, a fair few people have taken your concerns and ran straight off the deep end with the anti-Ashley rhetoric. I think the proof, either way, will become clearer in the next set of accounts. I appreciate you're using the information/graph supplied by Swiss Rambler, but if quayside can't see the debt reduction in the accounts, then where is SR getting his figures from? At least Colocho wasn't here when the thread was started...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2010/4/5/1270498439915/Peter-Lovenkrands-001.jpg

Gyan sounds like a right cunt.

for the record i've never called him shit, i actually think in general he's a solid PL player. this is my thinking though, having two natural footed full backs who can get forward would transform our attacking play even more than a new forward (imo). now that we've got Santon it shouldnt be too much of a stretch to go back in for one of the LB's we missed out on and make this happen, Simpson would obviously lose his place.