merlin

Harper should not have been dropped until he ran into a bad run of form, which clearly wasn't the case here. I don't think he was to blame for the defeat at Derby, and he had made some great saves in his previous matches. I still reckon he's a more stable prescence than Given, and controls his area better, although Shay is slightly better at shot-stopping. The biggest problem about dropping him is that Sam has sent the wrong message to the rest of the team, i.e. some players are more droppable than others.. I wouldn't blame Harper if he went in January - he has been loyal enough for too long.

Usually, the reason for buying late in the transfer window is that either ;- The Club don't want to start paying wages etc until last poss minute; The player is hanging on to see if he can get a better deal elsewhere. It seems very short-sighted as both parties would benefit from more time spent with team-mates during pre-season training, but as with everything, money comes first....

I agree totally with this.

Agreed Mick - this is just the final Post Script which illustrates how dire the regime has been for the last 10 years ; we are well-rid now and we should be grateful it has all ended.

It's because they weren't a better team than us at the end of last season, we took their star player (thus they should have been weakened) and we got a great manager and they got Sven (Most people didn't want him to come here). Now they are better than us and it shows what progress we have actually made. I wonder if Joey Barton is gutted he came here. And no, I don't want Big Sam to get sacked, I don't want Mourinho either, I want them to give Big Sam the length of time that is on his contract. We didn't spend huge amounts of money this summer and it's taking a little longer than we expected for our players to gel. As for Sam's Tactics, yes, so far I think he has been poor - though I'm sure he knows a lot more about tactics than me, and I'm sure he has a plan, I'm still going to stick with a top 9 finish for us this season. Most of this is spot-on.

A very poor performance after going in front to a well-taken goal by Martins. The midfield look slow and pedestrian compared to City's, but then, they do compared to most teams - Villa lost at City, but gave them many more problems than we did as they have players with change of pace, whereas our midfield is one-paced. There is no constructive running into space by players without the ball, esp midfielders, so the options for the man in possession to pass to are always limited - this was why City scored their second - Taylor was put under pressure by the man who passed to him, and his lack of pace was brutally exposed by Petrov, although questions should also be asked of Beye's positioning in that instance.. Our passing is often sloppy and hurried - clearly, no-one is looking to where their team-mates are moving to before receiving the ball so they can pass it straight away and take defenders out of the game. Giving the ball away by sloppy passing is the worst sin in Football bar none. City's movement off the ball(and control on it)were far superior, and lets face it, they are a team who are supposed to be in a similar position to ourselves - new manager and rebuilding. They were fortunate in having the likes of Richards on the staff, whereas Allardyce had to get defenders in to try to plug the huge gaps we had there. Nevertheless, City have got very good value in Petrov and Elano, who ran us stupid. Our defence looks really shaky without Capaca... It must be soul-destroying for the likes of Viduka when he sees the amount of movement City players do to create space for M'Penza - he was once left on his own in the box in the second half, screaming for the ball and Martins tried a shot fron an acute angle and blasted it into the side-netting - a decent cross, and we would have had an equaliser.. This lack of pass & move is a part of the current side's game which concerns me greatly - it appears that the Coaching is distinctly lacking in that department... Once again, we had the spectacle of Enrique being brought on near the end - WHY isn't this guy fit ? We paid 6m for him, he's a Spanish U-21 player, yet we unbalance the side by playing Zog at Left B - he was badly exposed on this occasion too. In case anyone immediately says that Enrique needs to 'adjust' to the Prem let me direct you to Elano....! We have now played Bolton, Boro, Derby, Arsenal Reserves(CC Cup),and Man City away from home and picked up 4 points from a possible 12 and losing the last 3 away games ; at SJP we have won 2, drawn one against Villa, Wigan & WH - a total of 11 points overall from a possible 21 against sides we should be performing well against. Whilst we win matches, the style of play will not matter too much, but when we start playing the big boys and lose while playing badly, it WILL become an issue - I dread to think how many a full-strength Arsenal would have put past us yesterday. We all tended to put the Derby result down as 'one of those days', but this excuse will start to wear thin if these performances are repeated with any regularity. Even allowing for Barton's return, we badly need an infusion of midfield class in January, or even a Top 10 place will be a struggle.

The thing that matters most is not 'attractive' football, but EFFECTIVE football. Many people remember Gordon Lee badly for his sale of Macdonald to Arsenal, BUT - he wanted to spend that money(and a bit more)on replacing Supermac, but the Board wouldn't back him to that extent. HOWEVER - the season before Macdonald left(75-76)Lee had just taken over ; he changed the style of play, bringing in Gowling, moving Nulty into the midfield box-to-box role, selling Hibbitt and using Tommy Craig as left midfielder, with Cassidy central. We had 2 excellent young full-backs in those days(Nattrass & Kennedy),but it all took a while to gel - I remember a game just before Christmas against Ipswich, and everyone thought it was dreadful - very disjointed.. Suddenly, after Christmas , we clicked ; Hit Everton for 5 and it should have been 7,Coventry for 5 in the FA Cup,beat Spurs over a 2-legged LC Semi Final, had 3 great games with Bolton in the 5th round of the FA(including a certain young Sam Allardyce at CH !!)before putting them out WITHOUT Supermac in the side,and lost, very narrowly, to an excellent Man City side at Wembley after half our team went down with the Flu bug before the game. We were playing fast, EFFECTIVE football and scoring lots of goals, even though people weren't too convinced ; they were even less convinced when we sold Macdonald in the summer and yet went on to finish in a UEFA Cup place the following season... Lee went to Everton in Jan 77, after deciding the board were not ambitious enough, and after Dinnis took over fully, we were relegated in 77-78. We do not have as talented a squad in midield or up front now as we did in 75-76, with Mickey Burns, Gowling and Macdonald all scoring regulary - Tommy Craig, Nulty and Cassidy all got goals from midfield, but our defence today is much tighter in the middle(we had that walking disaster Glen Keeley as a CH..!). The point is that BSA is starting to impose a new style on the side, just as Lee did, but he has less creative ability to work with - whether he changes that in the next 9 months will determine how successful he will be as NUFC manager.

Saw the Fairs Cup win, and it was a marvellous feeling, esp as no-one expected us to win when we got in at the end of the previous season. However, we won because it was a two-legged competition - had we been drawn AWAY to Feyenoord in the first game and had ro rely on a draw to get a replay, we would have gone out in the first leg... Wyn Davies shocked many Continental defenders with his jumping ability - they just couldn't handle him and we cashed in through Pop Robson etc as well as having some good young players(Foggon & Dyson) and a good defence. Its a much tougher job these days - domestically, there is really only 1 chance of a trophy for teams outside the Top 4 and we have just gone out of that, depressingly to the second team of one of the Top 4 ; as for the UEFA Cup, the final is now one-legged, so that would cut down any chance of home advantage. Lets face it, we are hopeless away from SJP - how many matches did we go without winning in London prior to beating Arsenal in Dec 2001...!! Look what happened at even Derby, for heaven's sake...also, FA Cup Finals in 98, 99... I know Sam will make us harder to beat, but that is NOT the same as getting a good proportion of wins on Away grounds, so unfortunately, I think it will be a long time before a trophy arrives at SJP. Sometimes I remember what McDermott said after we blew the Title in 96 - 'The Club is cursed'....... At least I've seen us do it and know what a great feeling it is, but that is a small oasis in a long period of drought & disappointment.

We do not have enough class to keep possession in the midfield - although Man U DID do this against City, they still lost to a goal on the break.... Our attacks are too slow in construction to cause many teams problems away from home , when a quick-breaking side gets more opportunities to make the most of that tactic. We will probably lose, either 2-1 or 2-0 unfortunately.

That says it all .

This is totally correct - we should have had him from Norwich as a replacement for Shearer. Of course, he probably had the wrong Agent for Shepherd & Co.... Would have been a much better value signing for 7m than Owen at 17m ; its too late now, but who knows what may happen in a year or so...

Good summing up.

It NEVER pays to have large amounts of debt - ask all those with big Mortgages now that Interest rates are rising ; you can use other more useful choices to reduce Tax...

He MUST have a long-term design for the club - you do not pay off those chunks of cash unless you want the business to survive and prosper. He will have slashed the Interest burden on the club by millions each season, so the odds are that there WILL be quite a decent transfer kitty as well, but there is no doubt that the pathetic signings which have occurred under Shepherd are a thing of the past - Ashley will demand VALUE FOR MONEY, not bling merchants, and although he won't be frightened to give Sam big money, he will want the real deal for it. Up to now, we seem to be getting that in the main - most transfers have been excellent value and I expect that to continue, although it will be a long road to get us where we want to be ; I expect it to be 3 years before we even LOOK like challenging for the PL. Nevertheless, the club is in a healthier financial position now that for many, many years.

If he needs an op it should be done NOW - no hesitating about England or anything else ; if there is a groin problem, delaying it will make it worse and take longer to recover from. Whilst I think he is a great finisher(and a decent player apart from that), this should put the Club on a warning for the future - as I said yesterday, I believe Ashton would be a great asset to us(I was concerned about his fitness after the ankle injury, but there was no sign of that on Sunday)and if it is possible, we should try to get him, either in Jan or the summer ; that way, we would have a replacement for Owen if & when he goes and also, Ashton is strong enough to take Viduka's role as target man. Once again, we have done everything backside first - we could have got Ashton when we needed a replacement for Shearer at the time he was with Norwich - instead, Fat Fred & Souness go for a huge publicity signing in Owen for a ridiculous fee, whereas the Hammers got Ashton for 7m... Owen has been constantly injured, and whilst Ashton suffered a bad ankle injury, he at least got them to a Cup Final first.. How much do you think he would cost us from West Ham now - 12m ? We ARE going to have to look for a similar player in the next 2 years or so.

The performance was a vast improvement on Derby, but for much of the first half, we struggled to keep the ball and impose any pattern on the game. Two excellent goals(Viduka's header has to be one of the best headed goals I've seen - not easy to twist your head in front of the defender and get as much power & direction as he did), both created by great crosses from Zog, gave us breathing space, but it could have been a different story had West Ham capitalised on their control - Ashton took his goal well, and I still think he would be a great asset to us ; although some will disagree, I would have him instead of Martins(what a shocking miss..!). Much better performance in second half, esp when Enrique came on allowing Zog to move further up - he caused them immediate problems by running at the full back, and Milner looked far more comfortable on the right- this is our best flank formation. Viduka had his best game for the club as apart from the goals, his link up play was good, but both he and Owen look as if injuries will hamper them. Geremi looks slow and ineffective in this midfield , and if anyone has to go to fit Barton in, it should be him as Butt was far better; Beye was excellent, Enrique looked promising, but its too soon to tell yet. In the end, it was a good win, but didn't look convincing in the first half - the changes made show what we COULD do once Barton is in the side, and Enrique and Beye play as first choice fullbacks. We are in the top 6 - lets be glad about that !

Beye looks as if he could be the best RB the club has had since Irving Nattrass in the 70s - similar style and quality movement & awareness - will be a huge asset when he adjusts to the Prem. Notice how Butt improved considerably when linking up with him...

A very sad occasion - the lad has had no life, so I hope the fans give him a great send-off. Its at times like this that one should count your blessings...

The reason for the reaction is that Allardyce's comments could adversely affect our result at Anfield, and maybe even SJP - I couldn't give a stuff what he thinks - he's entitled to his opinion - but it is unprofessional if it causes another top side to be really on their metal when they play us. Also, these comments are so petty that they could have been made by our last Chairman.....

That should be the motto of EVERY successful club - can you imagine Wenger allowing Martins(or anyone else)being an automatic choice ?

This is exactly the right comment on this stupid intervention by Allardyce - I am absolutely stunned that he should have entered into such a ludicrous situation as to provoke a comparison between himself and Benitez, for regardless of his intentions, that is what he has done, and , by association, beween Liverpool and ourselves... There are many similarities between the two cities/clubs, but success is not one of them - if NUFC had won even half of what Benitez has done with Liverpool,or half of what Liverpool have achieved in the past 20 years we would have been jumping through hoops and claiming we were in the elite now, etc etc. The old saying about Glass Houses, stones and throwing comes to mind - all Allardyce has succeeded in doing is to draw enormous pressure on to both himself and the Club(us), and probably ensured that we get a humiliating defeat when we go to Anfield ; Benitez will have them well wound up for that one, and their squad is already light-years ahead of ours - time to get back to basics Big Sam ; AND to say NOWT.

I'll be astonished if that happens - apart from the Wigan game(and West Ham have far better players than Wigan), we haven't looked like 'pasting' ANYBODY - the team hasn't got enough raw pace to do that. If we win 1-0, it will be as best that can be expected, and if they score first, we will have a mountain to climb....

Cappello and Hiddink are better for me. Totally agree - Hiddink is the best around.

If I was a betting man, I would def go for this - the split with Abramovitch has been coming for ages, and Jol will have to get good results in the next few games or he will be out... As for those advocating Mourinho for Allardyce, I can't see this as a runner at all - maybe if Big Sam had been at the Club for a year or so, possibly, but even Ashley must see what a cleft stick the club is in over sacking managers ; we are the laughing stock of the Prem as far as that's concerned - even if Ashley wanted him, I reckon Mourinho would still go to Spurs if offered the chance(London & all that...).

I agree with much of this. We have got many years of 'soft touch' to remove from the opposition's association with Newcastle United, and unfortunately, we have both the Transfer Window to contend with as well as a completely new regime off the pitch ; in this situation it is impossible to do everything quickly, a)because the players aren't available to us and b) because it takes time for the guys at the top to have total confidence in the abilities of the manager - esp as they didn't appoint him... People are underestimating just how far this club has fallen in 4 years - for a club of our size and potential, it is almost the equivalent of Leeds Utd's disaster, for we qualified for the CL 2 years' running. There has been HUGE damage done to the club's reputation all around Europe, and players who we need and could have competed for 5 years ago will no longer be interested - even if Ashley was prepared to give Allardyce a big budget. It is going to take time to sort it all out, and the unavailability of Barton in particular has drastically affected our effectiveness in supporting the forwards from midfield ; of the other players who are out, I have doubts as to Emre's future with the club(AND his usefulness) - Duff WOULD be a huge bonus IF he were to be the player he was at Blackburn, but I have a bad feeling that those days are over... As to any doubts over the manager, I think its far too soon to be condemning him yet - he is going to need time, maybe up to 3 years...having said that, there remain some awkward questions about some of his decisions ; the introduction of Faye was non-productive at Derby, and this player looks too much like many others we have albeit even slower. You could interchange him for Butt or Geremi and you wouldn't notice the difference, when what we needed was some creativity brought into the side - OK, Faye was going to help keep Derby at bay, but he wasn't going to hurt them.... Perhaps Troisi should have been introduced - it was a late stage in the game, so he wouldn't have had to cope too much with Derby's aggression as they were tiring by then, and he does at least try to play the forward pass & kep possession. If there is a criticism of Allardyce, it is that he can be too cautious at a stage of the match when we need some positive qualities in the midfield.. I didn't like the appointment of Geremi as captain at the time, and nothing since has changed my mind - he is playing far too cautiously, and it looks to me as if the responsibilty is on his mind all the time - I would actually have preferred Barton to be given the job for a number of reasons, not least the fact that he will have to behave more responsibly. The defeat was disappointing in the extreme, but it was the manner of it rather than the resuly which caused the alarm bells to ring with me ; we've all seen odd-goal defeats where the result has been undeserved, where the beaten team has hit the bar, forced the keeper into great saves, and missed loads of chances - this was NOT one of those games, and we went down without a whimper, but I said all this after the match on another thread ; the lack of creativity IS a major problem, but to lose to such a poor side so easily is very worrying. If we get a similar performance in the next AWAY game - never mind against West Ham - the alarm bells WILL start ringing, but we would be wrong now to expect anything better than a Top 10 placing this season.