merlin

Agree entirely with these comments - said last week that Harper should never have been dropped. The palming of Arteta's cross, albeit deflected, into his own net was completely unnecessary by Given ; the camera I was watching the game from was in line with the flight of the ball, and even if he had left it, it would have drifted behind, just wide of the post - even a solid punch over would have been a better option. Apart from today's performance, I have had chance to re-run Elano's goal at City last week, and I believe that he should at least have got a hand to it - he was not the slightest bit unsighted when Elano hit the ball, and he could see exactly what was happening, whereas the goal that Van Persie scored yesterday against the Mackems(very similar position) was struck even harder than Elano's and with Gordon having less sight of it.... There is no doubt that Allardyce has created a difficult situation for himself by the decision to re-instate Given - Harper now has little confidence that he will keep the spot, even if he plays well, and had Owen, much abused by some members of this site, not scored a third goal, we would have dropped 2 points.

I hope those on this site who spent their time knocking O'Neill last year are now ready to eat the same sized slice of Humble Pie that the Head of Aussie Rugby, John O'Neill, is devouring this morning ! Although he has a year start on Big Sam, can you honestly see us being able to go to Spurs next season, and get into a 4-4 draw after being 4-1 ahead, let alone turn over Chelsea by 2 goals? Young has been a great signing for Villa, and they already have young players like Agbonlahor too - they have far more pace in their side than we do, and those who claimed O'Neill played boring football should have the biggest slice of humble pie; they've been quite attack-minded in all their games and definitely have a pattern of play which we currently don't. Well - who is going to be first to the table..!??

so why has Given been hailed as one of the best keepers in the league for years and linked with the biggests clubs in the league while Harper has sat on the bench for 10 years? You might ask WHO made these claims about Given, and in any case, there has been a shortage of really good keepers for a while - esp British ones(yes I know he's Irish). Given is certainly not in the class of Shilton or Banks. As for Harper on the bench, this has been a combination of managerial preference and Harper's own loyalty and patience.Maybe he prefers living in the Nprth East, and he is not badly-paid. All our past managers rated Ameobi, but he has failed to live up to their rating AND failed to convince supporters that he deserves it, so does that mean they were automatically right about Given over Harper ? All of them had to face the fact that they would struggle to get a decent replacement if Given left, but none of them put right the defence in front of either keeper - James has a good point about the defence being crucial to making a keeper look good(or bad)...

Bobby was a really good defender in his prime - he and Ollie Burton/John McNamee were the cornerstone of our Fairs Cup success in 1968/69 and he went on to Captain Scotland. Will never forget his crucial goals in the first leg of the Final at SJP, when we had done well against Ujpest Doza, a team who had beaten Leeds earlier ; Revie thought we had no chance before the final, but we did well against them but it looked as if we weren't going to score - then up popped Bob at a Corner, and stuck one in. He came forward again a few minutes later and managed to bang another one in. Jimmy Scott got a brave third ; I was in the Gallowgate end, and we were all swept forward like a tidal wave after each goal(60,000 in the ground); the Health & Safety guys would have a fit these days..!! He managed a goal in the return, too and just as well - they played really well, and we were 2-0 down at half-time but Bob pulled us back in it - they fell apart then, and Arentoft & Foggon put the icing on.. Bob was a huge influence on us winning a first European Trophy, and I wish him every success in his personal battle ; this is probably the toughest one he has faced and its ironical that another great Number 6, Bobby Moore, developed the same illness.

That is also what Allardyce has said, and he's spot-on.

I disagree, I don't see a lot between the two keepers now that Harper has had a good run of games and has had time to settle in. They both have strengths and weakness's which make them too close to call as far as I'm concerned. Harper has had poor treatment over his place going back to Given for no reason other than that Given is fit. do you mean "for no reason other than the manager thinks he is the better keeper" ? No, he means 'for no other reason than the manager doesn't want any aggro from Given until he has a replacement(Jaaskelainen?) in place' and although in one way he's acting practically, in another he's weakened his own position with the squad.

Where's your proof of that particular gem ?

Harper should not have been dropped until he ran into a bad run of form, which clearly wasn't the case here. I don't think he was to blame for the defeat at Derby, and he had made some great saves in his previous matches. I still reckon he's a more stable prescence than Given, and controls his area better, although Shay is slightly better at shot-stopping. The biggest problem about dropping him is that Sam has sent the wrong message to the rest of the team, i.e. some players are more droppable than others.. I wouldn't blame Harper if he went in January - he has been loyal enough for too long.

Usually, the reason for buying late in the transfer window is that either ;- The Club don't want to start paying wages etc until last poss minute; The player is hanging on to see if he can get a better deal elsewhere. It seems very short-sighted as both parties would benefit from more time spent with team-mates during pre-season training, but as with everything, money comes first....

I agree totally with this.

Agreed Mick - this is just the final Post Script which illustrates how dire the regime has been for the last 10 years ; we are well-rid now and we should be grateful it has all ended.

It's because they weren't a better team than us at the end of last season, we took their star player (thus they should have been weakened) and we got a great manager and they got Sven (Most people didn't want him to come here). Now they are better than us and it shows what progress we have actually made. I wonder if Joey Barton is gutted he came here. And no, I don't want Big Sam to get sacked, I don't want Mourinho either, I want them to give Big Sam the length of time that is on his contract. We didn't spend huge amounts of money this summer and it's taking a little longer than we expected for our players to gel. As for Sam's Tactics, yes, so far I think he has been poor - though I'm sure he knows a lot more about tactics than me, and I'm sure he has a plan, I'm still going to stick with a top 9 finish for us this season. Most of this is spot-on.

A very poor performance after going in front to a well-taken goal by Martins. The midfield look slow and pedestrian compared to City's, but then, they do compared to most teams - Villa lost at City, but gave them many more problems than we did as they have players with change of pace, whereas our midfield is one-paced. There is no constructive running into space by players without the ball, esp midfielders, so the options for the man in possession to pass to are always limited - this was why City scored their second - Taylor was put under pressure by the man who passed to him, and his lack of pace was brutally exposed by Petrov, although questions should also be asked of Beye's positioning in that instance.. Our passing is often sloppy and hurried - clearly, no-one is looking to where their team-mates are moving to before receiving the ball so they can pass it straight away and take defenders out of the game. Giving the ball away by sloppy passing is the worst sin in Football bar none. City's movement off the ball(and control on it)were far superior, and lets face it, they are a team who are supposed to be in a similar position to ourselves - new manager and rebuilding. They were fortunate in having the likes of Richards on the staff, whereas Allardyce had to get defenders in to try to plug the huge gaps we had there. Nevertheless, City have got very good value in Petrov and Elano, who ran us stupid. Our defence looks really shaky without Capaca... It must be soul-destroying for the likes of Viduka when he sees the amount of movement City players do to create space for M'Penza - he was once left on his own in the box in the second half, screaming for the ball and Martins tried a shot fron an acute angle and blasted it into the side-netting - a decent cross, and we would have had an equaliser.. This lack of pass & move is a part of the current side's game which concerns me greatly - it appears that the Coaching is distinctly lacking in that department... Once again, we had the spectacle of Enrique being brought on near the end - WHY isn't this guy fit ? We paid 6m for him, he's a Spanish U-21 player, yet we unbalance the side by playing Zog at Left B - he was badly exposed on this occasion too. In case anyone immediately says that Enrique needs to 'adjust' to the Prem let me direct you to Elano....! We have now played Bolton, Boro, Derby, Arsenal Reserves(CC Cup),and Man City away from home and picked up 4 points from a possible 12 and losing the last 3 away games ; at SJP we have won 2, drawn one against Villa, Wigan & WH - a total of 11 points overall from a possible 21 against sides we should be performing well against. Whilst we win matches, the style of play will not matter too much, but when we start playing the big boys and lose while playing badly, it WILL become an issue - I dread to think how many a full-strength Arsenal would have put past us yesterday. We all tended to put the Derby result down as 'one of those days', but this excuse will start to wear thin if these performances are repeated with any regularity. Even allowing for Barton's return, we badly need an infusion of midfield class in January, or even a Top 10 place will be a struggle.

The thing that matters most is not 'attractive' football, but EFFECTIVE football. Many people remember Gordon Lee badly for his sale of Macdonald to Arsenal, BUT - he wanted to spend that money(and a bit more)on replacing Supermac, but the Board wouldn't back him to that extent. HOWEVER - the season before Macdonald left(75-76)Lee had just taken over ; he changed the style of play, bringing in Gowling, moving Nulty into the midfield box-to-box role, selling Hibbitt and using Tommy Craig as left midfielder, with Cassidy central. We had 2 excellent young full-backs in those days(Nattrass & Kennedy),but it all took a while to gel - I remember a game just before Christmas against Ipswich, and everyone thought it was dreadful - very disjointed.. Suddenly, after Christmas , we clicked ; Hit Everton for 5 and it should have been 7,Coventry for 5 in the FA Cup,beat Spurs over a 2-legged LC Semi Final, had 3 great games with Bolton in the 5th round of the FA(including a certain young Sam Allardyce at CH !!)before putting them out WITHOUT Supermac in the side,and lost, very narrowly, to an excellent Man City side at Wembley after half our team went down with the Flu bug before the game. We were playing fast, EFFECTIVE football and scoring lots of goals, even though people weren't too convinced ; they were even less convinced when we sold Macdonald in the summer and yet went on to finish in a UEFA Cup place the following season... Lee went to Everton in Jan 77, after deciding the board were not ambitious enough, and after Dinnis took over fully, we were relegated in 77-78. We do not have as talented a squad in midield or up front now as we did in 75-76, with Mickey Burns, Gowling and Macdonald all scoring regulary - Tommy Craig, Nulty and Cassidy all got goals from midfield, but our defence today is much tighter in the middle(we had that walking disaster Glen Keeley as a CH..!). The point is that BSA is starting to impose a new style on the side, just as Lee did, but he has less creative ability to work with - whether he changes that in the next 9 months will determine how successful he will be as NUFC manager.

Saw the Fairs Cup win, and it was a marvellous feeling, esp as no-one expected us to win when we got in at the end of the previous season. However, we won because it was a two-legged competition - had we been drawn AWAY to Feyenoord in the first game and had ro rely on a draw to get a replay, we would have gone out in the first leg... Wyn Davies shocked many Continental defenders with his jumping ability - they just couldn't handle him and we cashed in through Pop Robson etc as well as having some good young players(Foggon & Dyson) and a good defence. Its a much tougher job these days - domestically, there is really only 1 chance of a trophy for teams outside the Top 4 and we have just gone out of that, depressingly to the second team of one of the Top 4 ; as for the UEFA Cup, the final is now one-legged, so that would cut down any chance of home advantage. Lets face it, we are hopeless away from SJP - how many matches did we go without winning in London prior to beating Arsenal in Dec 2001...!! Look what happened at even Derby, for heaven's sake...also, FA Cup Finals in 98, 99... I know Sam will make us harder to beat, but that is NOT the same as getting a good proportion of wins on Away grounds, so unfortunately, I think it will be a long time before a trophy arrives at SJP. Sometimes I remember what McDermott said after we blew the Title in 96 - 'The Club is cursed'....... At least I've seen us do it and know what a great feeling it is, but that is a small oasis in a long period of drought & disappointment.

We do not have enough class to keep possession in the midfield - although Man U DID do this against City, they still lost to a goal on the break.... Our attacks are too slow in construction to cause many teams problems away from home , when a quick-breaking side gets more opportunities to make the most of that tactic. We will probably lose, either 2-1 or 2-0 unfortunately.

That says it all .

This is totally correct - we should have had him from Norwich as a replacement for Shearer. Of course, he probably had the wrong Agent for Shepherd & Co.... Would have been a much better value signing for 7m than Owen at 17m ; its too late now, but who knows what may happen in a year or so...

Good summing up.

It NEVER pays to have large amounts of debt - ask all those with big Mortgages now that Interest rates are rising ; you can use other more useful choices to reduce Tax...

He MUST have a long-term design for the club - you do not pay off those chunks of cash unless you want the business to survive and prosper. He will have slashed the Interest burden on the club by millions each season, so the odds are that there WILL be quite a decent transfer kitty as well, but there is no doubt that the pathetic signings which have occurred under Shepherd are a thing of the past - Ashley will demand VALUE FOR MONEY, not bling merchants, and although he won't be frightened to give Sam big money, he will want the real deal for it. Up to now, we seem to be getting that in the main - most transfers have been excellent value and I expect that to continue, although it will be a long road to get us where we want to be ; I expect it to be 3 years before we even LOOK like challenging for the PL. Nevertheless, the club is in a healthier financial position now that for many, many years.

If he needs an op it should be done NOW - no hesitating about England or anything else ; if there is a groin problem, delaying it will make it worse and take longer to recover from. Whilst I think he is a great finisher(and a decent player apart from that), this should put the Club on a warning for the future - as I said yesterday, I believe Ashton would be a great asset to us(I was concerned about his fitness after the ankle injury, but there was no sign of that on Sunday)and if it is possible, we should try to get him, either in Jan or the summer ; that way, we would have a replacement for Owen if & when he goes and also, Ashton is strong enough to take Viduka's role as target man. Once again, we have done everything backside first - we could have got Ashton when we needed a replacement for Shearer at the time he was with Norwich - instead, Fat Fred & Souness go for a huge publicity signing in Owen for a ridiculous fee, whereas the Hammers got Ashton for 7m... Owen has been constantly injured, and whilst Ashton suffered a bad ankle injury, he at least got them to a Cup Final first.. How much do you think he would cost us from West Ham now - 12m ? We ARE going to have to look for a similar player in the next 2 years or so.

The performance was a vast improvement on Derby, but for much of the first half, we struggled to keep the ball and impose any pattern on the game. Two excellent goals(Viduka's header has to be one of the best headed goals I've seen - not easy to twist your head in front of the defender and get as much power & direction as he did), both created by great crosses from Zog, gave us breathing space, but it could have been a different story had West Ham capitalised on their control - Ashton took his goal well, and I still think he would be a great asset to us ; although some will disagree, I would have him instead of Martins(what a shocking miss..!). Much better performance in second half, esp when Enrique came on allowing Zog to move further up - he caused them immediate problems by running at the full back, and Milner looked far more comfortable on the right- this is our best flank formation. Viduka had his best game for the club as apart from the goals, his link up play was good, but both he and Owen look as if injuries will hamper them. Geremi looks slow and ineffective in this midfield , and if anyone has to go to fit Barton in, it should be him as Butt was far better; Beye was excellent, Enrique looked promising, but its too soon to tell yet. In the end, it was a good win, but didn't look convincing in the first half - the changes made show what we COULD do once Barton is in the side, and Enrique and Beye play as first choice fullbacks. We are in the top 6 - lets be glad about that !

Beye looks as if he could be the best RB the club has had since Irving Nattrass in the 70s - similar style and quality movement & awareness - will be a huge asset when he adjusts to the Prem. Notice how Butt improved considerably when linking up with him...

A very sad occasion - the lad has had no life, so I hope the fans give him a great send-off. Its at times like this that one should count your blessings...