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I assume it was either an ultimatum from Howe about being backed or a lack of will to make the changes needed as it was bad timing appointment wise with the transfer window. As you said hard to judge too much at this point but as I say he can't be blameless for the summer he chose to go along with plan "A"

I still want to have hope it somehow clicks Upturn in performances Mitchell shrewd business in the winter window getting a new spark/freshness Stadium plans Maybe God forbid some new sponsors announced Cup run However most of it is on Howes first two seasons which due to a whole host of reasons he may never get back to. How much of this season do you write off to find out is anyone's guess if there was a good standout available candidate maybe it would be an easier choice.

Lack of action from Mitchell in the summer in either backing the old plan or not coming up with a good alternative and stamping his authority to enforce a new way/direction. The comments brought up by him privately speaking to the journos after the summer that recruitment so far has not been fit for purpose. Something brought back to the attention of howe recently who just said he didn't know what he meant by that as he likes who we signed.

That quote only a few weeks ago would have been 3 or 4 points off the gap is widening and the performances are consistently inconsistent

His usual performance great driving runs no end product and alot of backwards passes once he has no clue what to do with the ball in the final third.

Age catching up to him? Too many games? No one for competition? Still to agree his future? All of it? I want a fair few players out of the side to try and freshen up and give them a kick in the arse they need but don't see anyone taking his place off him without a signing. If there is any budget at all is it an attacker or a defender both departments trying their best to make a case for new signings.

Easy to probably say after a loss and he's been out so long it will take time i am still unimpressed by anything he has done so far hope we aren't relying on him for any period this season he looks finished.

The regression is crazy only masked by a few teams being just as inconsistent. Bad bad bad summer and the Howe comments about it being very hard to improve what we have is starting to bite him in the arse as nearly the full team is here other than botman and we look shit. So disappointed with the lads and their effort and application and on the manager for doubling down and hoping something will click its not working.

Don't want to dwell on the negatives when the team did well collectively and the side will need that good feeling momentum. However agreed he drives forward and the stops and wants to go back and recycle the ball. Not that sort attacking instinct in him really a few times he was trying to keep 3 Liverpool players away and just ended up going back. I am hoping a proper attacking winger can do alot more with Tino's excellent driving runs and then takes over the crossing shooting bit.

Not sure i saw the same thing watching the game he was all over the place coming for the ball and trying to make things happen the assist for gordan was selfless and he kept chasing lost causes pressuring the keeper. Was an much better performance from him.

Craig no hope has suggested the dream sold is now further into thr future than those group sold a dream with training ground, stadium, European ambitious but didn't go as far to say it would cause an effect on the pitch. Howe having 1-2-1s with his players and his comment about if they feel they are champions league players play like one. The group dynamic does seem to have shifted from the together as one narrative. Players getting 1 year extensions, players still playing on last year on contract, older players coming to an end of their career. How we navigate this going forward may well have a baring on the medium and long term future of the clubs underlying performances. I hope it's seen as a positive and an opportunity.

Not sure it was mentioned in the match day thread but the trent thing really annoyed me. When he got carded he was right up in the refs face sure he put hands on him and think I read his lips right iam sure he said "but I have only been on the pitch 2 minutes" like that excuses a bookable offence? The respect the ref and captains only seem to only be when it suits them or they been told after the rice thing to lay off it.

In an ideal world all the following are shipped first: Willock- injures and never hit loan period heights and doesn't score with 6 in 83 for us compared to 9 in 33 from Barnes. Longstaff- don't rate Miggy-dont rate getting on Murphy- patchy at best and getting on but limited sale value However with Barnes it goes back to who is worth selling funds creation and who is willing to buy. Minus the injury last year he's entering peak years with a great goal return over multiple seasons. I can see us getting our money back or a little more unless the desire to sell is due to an unhappy player.

If we had Europe we would need him and there are other dross in the side I would prefer to shift first if only people would buy them but he's not pulling up trees when he starts and is older than gordan so I can see it being a sacrifice to move forward.

I would say the only chance we have if we get one of them sent off but it didn't work the last time 🤣

Like I say I can't understand your view point as I have no stake in it. Certainly you have my respect for speaking out when you feel so strongly. Because to me it's just a rainbow I don't see his actions as anything other than niave at best and he hasn't said or written anything aggressive to the point of promoting hate or hate speech about any sort of group. Obviously I am aware that branches of religion don't align with people's sexual preference and outside of the country it can have deadly consequences so not going to pretend there is no part whatsoever where it maybe construde that way. Hence why I would prefer its supported by the clubs and in the stadiums but kept off the field. For example my kids are severely disabled my son can't stand loud noises and regularly self harms due to sensory overload. The club have setup a quiet space in the stadium where you can be part of the match day experience but not the noise of the crowd. Not sure how well advertised it is but it's an inclusive thing I appreciate that doesn't need to be heavily promoted.

Obviously I can't put myself in your shoes or know how you feel or have been treated by others. I also feel campaigns like these are good for spreading the word and acceptance and tolerance. However to some the flag is just a rainbow and doesn't mean anything else and how they feel is personal to them. This is the point I kinda regret making as it just spill into the debate I feared where not doing it at all means you hate something or writing on a rainbow is a slight or defacing something special to others. The player may not have any strong views either way or misguided to think the campaign to respect a single group of people can also include religion too. Not going to know how he feels unless you know him or he releases a statement so hard to say if he is intentionally taking any stance good or bad by doing what he did.

Political maybe isn't a good choice of words as it shouldn't be debated that personal basic human rights are important. Just that promoting one thing and not another is a choice. The fact if he didn't wear one which to me he is more than free to do so would have gotten him outted in the press. Do I agree with what he did? No. However I also think what he did was harmless albeit misguided. The guidance as mentioned in the article restricts him promoting his view point of religion whilst playing. 'political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images.' I agree with the rule because unfortunately personal expression is just that personal.

That's why political stuff should stay out of sport its too devisive. Wasn't a big fan of the taking the knee thing and while it's great to include and promote inclusion we don't do sport campaigns for all minority groups or all walks of life who have a certain belief or condition. Things like these are a personal choice which should be left off the field for you to feel how you feel privately or promote in your personal life as you have every right to do so. I get the whole public figure thing but if work asked me to dress a certain way or promote a banner on an email and I didn't believe in it or want to I can see how it can be hard. End of the day you will have 2 schools of thought he has defaced a flag that symbolises something for so many people. Or he has promoted what he has been asked and added his own spin on it. The daft git will have been well aware it wouldn't go down well/not allowed.

Solanke? Although to be fair it was alot of championship and not consistently season after season so maybe not.

Guess it would depend if turning 27 in the next few weeks would take him out of consideration we have no idea if Mitchell will seek to bring the age profile down and target under 23s or if its deal specific.

If this is a comment after the game while it's his job to handle the press i do feel for him. Right after a defeat and right when things arent going right. He's right in that buying ready made guaranteed to get you goals Premier league goals is hard to come by and those with known form are a fortune. Issue is something needs to be done especially if the table stabilises and we aren't there to grab the opportunity. I still feel a creative right winger helps so much if they too feel comfortable playing across the front three or up top it's another variable/switch that can be made tactically bot not essential. Wilson or isak middle, gordan stays where he's proved to be most effective all those moving about and combinations haven't worked outside of a single game. Our front 3 are just not working while the cheapest option is to back what we have to hit form and put it right it's unlikely to happen based on how far into the season we are now and no one has hit their peak and kept it.

Agreed about the element of riding a positive wave has now seemingly died off. This would stretch back to before the summer window with the injuries, failing to qualify for Europe etc. Right now we could do with artificially or not creating that positivity again either on the field with performances and cup run or off the field through lucrative sponsors, stadium, training ground development etc the fact that so far the club when asked have been prickly about the sponsor thing is a worry as like others have said sign a short term 2 year deal and least it helps in the here and now. Unless they 100% sure any sponsorships soon can have a few more zeros on it seems to be another anker holding us back.

I mean if we recruited long term tino you would hope it's because some of his weaknesses can be developed or that longer term the RW picks up the creative element. Tino can still defend, receive the ball in tight spaces and get us up the pitch riding challenges and staying on his feet. Most of us love him although annoying the lack of that final cross or pass is lacking. I particularly get mad when he's in and around the opposition box he won't shoot although clearly isn't his game. He isn't going to get you the level of assist trips will but still think that element if recruited well can come from the winger instead.

Sell to buy is the other line coming out so trips and miggy go there may be some wiggle room for a signing if we don't peddle someone then it's loans/youth or no one.