Lotus

It's ok, we will get decent transfer fees for our young foreigners, Enrique and N'Zogbia who are obviously much worse than those two fossils. We should rename the ground to Jurassic Park. Christ, when you think of it like that, Riise and Duff. F**K me....... I know Zog and Ricky are young and will make mistakes but at least i'm confident they'll get better over time. The other 2.......... Hopefully this is all rumour that will amount to f**k all!

Not disagreeing with the majority of your post but the purchase of Duff was unecessary. We had a decent player in that position and more important areas to spend a third of the transfer budget. That's not hindsight, he was not in his prime, he was sold 'cheap' for a good reason. It's not a bad idea to take a gamble sometimes but we had other problems in the squad, LW was ok.

Don't think Riise is a better defender than Enrique in any way.

Would rather have someone who'd actually done it before, like.

If you can find a player who's good enough in midfield to defend and attack, great at both like Gerrard or Essien then you buy him. If you can't find or afford such a player you get someone who's good at some of it, either attacking or defending. There's plenty of players out there who can do either, pick 2 who the management believe will blend well and are affordable and buy them. Bob's your uncle.

How? Explain. Because he wouldn't have been able to waste so much money on bad players. So you're assuming that a DoF, simply because of their job title, wont waste money on bad players? I'm assuming he wouldn't have allowed Souness to waste money on bad players...otherwise what is the point? I'm guessing his point is, if you're a Chairman/Owner why would you trust a DoF to sign players if you don't think you can trust your manager too? If you can't trust your own judgement by giving the Manager the money to spend how can you trust your own judgement in recruiting a DoF to buy the players instead?

Manager should be in charge of the 1st team's training, selection, buying and selling. The club should have a scouting network in place which, whoever is Manager at the time, can use. Remeber Roeder saying the club had 1 scout, absolutely disgraceful for this club to have 1 scout. It's actually ridiculous. They should be like the Civil Service, availabe for whoever is in charge at the time Said scouts should befree for reserve/youth team signings with autonomy, i can't see that they need to be accountable to the 1st team manager regarding this. Club should have someone who can deal with contract and negotiations. If the Manager wants a player he shouldn't be burdened with arguing with the players agent over wages. Key point imo, the Board should have a member who knows something about football, someone to say, don't hire Graeme Souness, or SBR's getting on - replace him at the end of the season to limit disruption, or only let Roeder do the Caretaker role then find some body proper, or let Keegan get on with his job and don't undermine him with no-mark appointments - support him properly if you're going to employ in the first place. This bloke shouldn't be in charge of Managerial appointments, he should be a respected and trusted figure who will stay out of the Managers way (and the media limelight) and give his opinion. I'd appoint SBR if he wasn't so unwell. It should be the resonsibility of the Board to appoint and sack a manager, such important decisions shouldn't be down to DOF or Chief Exec or whatever job title alone, should be a collective responsibilty.

I have a nagging feeling Shearer's management style might be more Sounes than Keegan. He was never vocal, encouraging captain and i wonder if he would be as a Manager, especially when the results aren't going our way. I think the club should look for someone who's already proved they know what they're doing.

Not saying i'd want him but i'll bet Hughes will be out of a job by Summer 09 at least.

If there was a genuine intention to replace Milner with either of those players then why was the sale of Milner rushed through (so that he could play for one of our supposed rivals while we were short on numbers) before we were sure they would sign? Milner's replacement is and was always intended to be a 26 year old loanee who noone had heard of because he's only ever played 5 games in Europe. I'm willing to bet none of our brilliant new recruitment team had even seen him play. But hey, it was a great deal Just out of interest which of the games we've lost would we have won if Milner had been playing in your opinion? In which game do you think Milner would've been the difference between winning and losing?

Thought the thing with the debt was that by Ashley taking it over we reduced the interest payments. We all know he'll want that money back.

Why not start him? He's been our best CM this season by miles (not that it's saying much). Flimsy reason really, neither him nor Geremi can last 90 mins but i would reckon Guthrie would be better coming on and running around for 30 mins like a maniac protecting our (optimistic) lead.

Admit it, you didn't even read the report did you? If you mean the Telegraph article, yes i did. Not a whiz with figures by any means but the article says the club is on healthier footing, especially going forward into the future, debts down or consolidated, etc. If so, i would want to know why we seemed to have such a tight transfer budget, unless the plan was to sell the club soon. What am i missing? Genuine question btw.

.................Given................. Taylor....Colo...Bass....Enrique ............Geri.......Butt............ Duff............Owen.............Zog .................Xisco.................... Guthrie to come on for last 30 mins for either Butt or Geremi, probs Geremi.

If the club was that healthy financially then i'm astonished we didn't spend more on transfers this summer. It increasingly appears that that was never the plan.....

I think it's imperative to have someone on the Board who knows football though. I had appreciation for the old board (as stated previously) but at times their decisions regarding the managers was just stupifyingly ignorant. Sacking SBR after 4 games and replacing him with Souness!!!!! A man that everyone could see, and i mean everyone accept whoever appointed him, was going to clash with Bellamy (our best player imo) and ruin the team. I can't for the life of me imagine, Peter Kenyon, David Dein making that kind of decision. And then they compounded that by replacing him with Roeder. The result was utterly predictable. What you learn from that is, whoever on the old Board made these decisions, they weren't well informed. To help with that, you employ someone to advise on these matters. Someone who knows football. You don't have to give them the power to make the appointment but you should listen to what they have to say. Once the managers in place then you can make appointments with his approval for scouting, negotiating, etc. The youth team needn't be in the 1st team managers remit and so the appointments for those posts can be made independantly of the manager. As has been said, the players we've bought in this summer all look good value for money, we got good prices for who we sold too, no one can argue with that. I'm sure KK was happy with Guti, Colo and Guthrie. Xisco looks ok for the money but i can't say much after 1 game. Same for Bassong. But the very idea that KK had to report to Wise is a f**king joke (if true) wtf has Wise done to deserve that kind of power?

Why the f**k would Wise be invloved in selling the club?

Well, i'm sick to my stomach. Gutted. Wanted us to succeed with KK, i won't say we won't succeed at all but you've got to wonder how.

If Ashley doesn't learn then he should appoint someone with some nous. In the end, i think that was a failure of the last board, didn't know a good football man from a bad one, made a couple of unfortunate apointments in a row. Easy to slide down the table, harder to get back up it. Hoping we get bought out by an investment group is weird though. What does anyone think they want out if it? This Indian fella doesn't want to get into football (if at all) for the joy of it, for a pint and a tear up. I doubt he's interested in spreading his fame across the North East either. Rich men want to get richer. Manure have money based on being very successful, built up with a big fan base and great manager. Arsenal have got the best manager. Liverpool are struggling, that ships rocking. Chelsea are an exception, at the moment. At some point RA might decide enough's enough. Clubs like Man City and West Ham, their owners will want to see a return, if it doesn't come heads will roll. Don't care how rich the Man City bloke is, he won't keep pissing his money away on a load of infidel glory super stars who don't win the CL. If he was into charity he'd have fed half of Africa instead.

I would think that sooner or later these guys will want a return on their investment tbh. These types take a much longer term view of things than your average football fan.

Fair post. Nobody minds a stronger structure if the right people are in positions of responsibility and there are open lines of communication. Ashley has filled his shops with cheap crap and built it up. Maybe this is what he's good at. Should have stuck to the formula and bought a shitty little club in the championship that you don't need to spend money on. I just hope he sells asap to someone who actually wants to succeed at the top level of the game and understands that its only done by buying top footballers that the other top clubs want. Notably, that having bumped this post, it is seen that the usual culprit has opted out of replying to me when he was found lacking ............ Ok, thats a fair post. So just to make sure I'm getting this right, you don't consider Woodgate and Modric top footballers that other top clubs want? Also, did Chelsea show a lack of ambition in failing to land Robinho ahead of Man City? edit: i think it's laughable that you have a dig at Ashley for his private business strategy which has made him a billionaire from nothing. Enlighten me, I didn't realise Woodgate and Modric had signed for Newcastle ? Or even a top 4 club ? I don't give a toss how Ashley made his money, he came into this club, knew nothing about football, and proceeded to prove it. Quite amazing that anybody can still not see this after recent events. This has been coming for months, as obvious as the nose on your face. Woodgate and Modric didn't sign for Newcastle, that's as obvious to me as the nose on my face, aye, i agree. not so obvious the rest of it. Fact is, Keegan mentioned Woodgate, Modric and even Nasri as players we have either bid for, or were looking at. Woodgate and Modric joined the Spurs "revolution", a London club playing in Europe, who's manager had just won 2 european trophies on the bounce. Nasri joined Arsenal. We tried to get them, but they chose not to come. How the f*** that is Ashley's fault I'll never know. What's as obvious as the nose on your face is that the club is still recovering from the bullshit it had endured in the last few years of Shepherd's reign. We were in so much "trouble" that most fans were delighted with the Messiah coming back, because we could all feel that the club needed "saving". Now let's give this lot a bit of time to signal their intentions and proceed with their plan. Fact is, whether you like it or not, Ashley owns the club, and will run it the way he wants to. In principle, he's already made a few positive changes which cannot be ignored. Yes he's also made a few mistakes, but who doesn't. How he recovers from these mistakes and builds on the positives, will determine whether or not he has failed us. As has been said, to suggest that a man who bought the club a year ago has "failed" us, or even ask it, is as deluded and pathetic an idea as they come. Well for starters, it wasn't me who titled this thread, it was Parky. Even though I agree with him and would go further, thats not the point. Are you saying losing Keegan - and replacing him with who exactly - is a price worth paying ? I know who I would rather lose. As for "bullshit", don't make me laugh. 2 years ago we were in europe. And 52,000 fans we still supporting the club. Some bullshit. I can show you what s*** is, its the state the Halls and Shepherd found the club in, thats s***. Don't bother replying with bollocks about stadium debt, that stadium is an asset to the club, and all the other major clubs have similar or higher debts for exactly the same reason. The alternative is yuo think they should have kept it at a 36,000 capacity, and if you seriously think THAT, then you deserve to watch a club selling itself short which will ultimately only lead to the crowds going back down to 36000 anyway and less. Stadium debt was manageable i thought, didn't everyone know that? Thought problem was we were running a bit dry (transfer funds) having given loads of money to an idiot like Souness and then drifting away with a man out of his depth, Roeder. Wouldn't have been surprised if we didn't have too much in the pot. We would've needed a good manager to get us up the table which increases revenue. Didn't look like BSA was gonna be that man tbh. Let's hope KK can. Shame, you can be astute but you've so blatently got an agenda you're weakening a good arguement by behaving like a bairn. You are entitled to your opinion. I suspect that what I say, rather than saying its "like a bairn" is simply what you don't want to hear. The bulk of the debt was due to the stadium, was it not ? And yes, it was "manageable". I'm pleased you see this, sadly, it appears that others do not. I too wasn't happy with Souness behaving like a trigger happy clown with the clubs money, both in sales and purchases, but unfortunately you will have to accept that the people who run the club have to be entitled to make their own decisions and stand or fall by them. They don't employ managers with the intention of not doing their best to back them, well the old board didn't anyway.........of course they backed their man, it wasn't up to me, or you, or Dave, or HTT. He was their appointment. You aren't going to tell me that you have never worked anywhere, found a s**** manager, and said to yourself "what knacker appointed him" ? It happens everywhere, and it also happens at all other football clubs. Its just life. You back people you appoint, until you feel he has to be sacked. I agree with that. I think the old board earnt their right to make mistakes. They done a lot right. This lot i just don't know about. KK says there's money available, says we've made bids, we haven't got the players, such is life. Spurs looked a better team than us (until they sold Berbs and Keane), couple of players went there instead. Oh well. I am deeply pissed off though because i think we've missed an opportunity. Liverpool look average, if we've have bought better we could have had a run at the 4th spot, now Man City will have a crack at it instead. As to what went wrong (assuming we don't have a great season cause we might), i don't know who to blame. But i think mistakes have been made, if Ashley learns from them, all good, if not fuck off. I'll not jump the gun though and start assuming what happened. It's too easy to let the heart do the thinking in these situations, we don't follow football for anything else tbh.

We could go round in circles about this for ages, obviously we have different views about the merits of the new owner. But if you mean that Ashley doesn't have a clue what's going on, then you don't know that and neither does anyone else. Look. None of us are party to 'the facts' and in these situations we probably never will be. But I know what I see...I see a man who loves the club and even with mighty odds stacked against him has got an average side to play spells of good football (even a respectable draw at ManU)...I see a man who is clearly our key asset behaving like a person who clearly feels alienated and fed up with things around him. I'm so sorry to be boring, you don't 'see' it you percieve it and there is a difference. Most relationships break down when both parties are guilty of something. I sincerely hope the relationship between KK and Fat Ash can recover and blossom along with our results. However, there may be a better and alternate future out there, not necassarily disasterous just because KK isn't involved. You never know.

Fair post. Nobody minds a stronger structure if the right people are in positions of responsibility and there are open lines of communication. Ashley has filled his shops with cheap crap and built it up. Maybe this is what he's good at. Should have stuck to the formula and bought a shitty little club in the championship that you don't need to spend money on. I just hope he sells asap to someone who actually wants to succeed at the top level of the game and understands that its only done by buying top footballers that the other top clubs want. Notably, that having bumped this post, it is seen that the usual culprit has opted out of replying to me when he was found lacking ............ Ok, thats a fair post. So just to make sure I'm getting this right, you don't consider Woodgate and Modric top footballers that other top clubs want? Also, did Chelsea show a lack of ambition in failing to land Robinho ahead of Man City? edit: i think it's laughable that you have a dig at Ashley for his private business strategy which has made him a billionaire from nothing. Enlighten me, I didn't realise Woodgate and Modric had signed for Newcastle ? Or even a top 4 club ? I don't give a toss how Ashley made his money, he came into this club, knew nothing about football, and proceeded to prove it. Quite amazing that anybody can still not see this after recent events. This has been coming for months, as obvious as the nose on your face. Woodgate and Modric didn't sign for Newcastle, that's as obvious to me as the nose on my face, aye, i agree. not so obvious the rest of it. Fact is, Keegan mentioned Woodgate, Modric and even Nasri as players we have either bid for, or were looking at. Woodgate and Modric joined the Spurs "revolution", a London club playing in Europe, who's manager had just won 2 european trophies on the bounce. Nasri joined Arsenal. We tried to get them, but they chose not to come. How the f*** that is Ashley's fault I'll never know. What's as obvious as the nose on your face is that the club is still recovering from the bullshit it had endured in the last few years of Shepherd's reign. We were in so much "trouble" that most fans were delighted with the Messiah coming back, because we could all feel that the club needed "saving". Now let's give this lot a bit of time to signal their intentions and proceed with their plan. Fact is, whether you like it or not, Ashley owns the club, and will run it the way he wants to. In principle, he's already made a few positive changes which cannot be ignored. Yes he's also made a few mistakes, but who doesn't. How he recovers from these mistakes and builds on the positives, will determine whether or not he has failed us. As has been said, to suggest that a man who bought the club a year ago has "failed" us, or even ask it, is as deluded and pathetic an idea as they come. Well for starters, it wasn't me who titled this thread, it was Parky. Even though I agree with him and would go further, thats not the point. Are you saying losing Keegan - and replacing him with who exactly - is a price worth paying ? I know who I would rather lose. As for "bullshit", don't make me laugh. 2 years ago we were in europe. And 52,000 fans we still supporting the club. Some bullshit. I can show you what s*** is, its the state the Halls and Shepherd found the club in, thats s***. Don't bother replying with bollocks about stadium debt, that stadium is an asset to the club, and all the other major clubs have similar or higher debts for exactly the same reason. The alternative is yuo think they should have kept it at a 36,000 capacity, and if you seriously think THAT, then you deserve to watch a club selling itself short which will ultimately only lead to the crowds going back down to 36000 anyway and less. Stadium debt was manageable i thought, didn't everyone know that? Thought problem was we were running a bit dry (transfer funds) having given loads of money to an idiot like Souness and then drifting away with a man out of his depth, Roeder. Wouldn't have been surprised if we didn't have too much in the pot. We would've needed a good manager to get us up the table which increases revenue. Didn't look like BSA was gonna be that man tbh. Let's hope KK can. Shame, you can be astute but you've so blatently got an agenda you're weakening a good arguement by behaving like a bairn.

Fair post. Nobody minds a stronger structure if the right people are in positions of responsibility and there are open lines of communication. Ashley has filled his shops with cheap crap and built it up. Maybe this is what he's good at. Should have stuck to the formula and bought a shitty little club in the championship that you don't need to spend money on. I just hope he sells asap to someone who actually wants to succeed at the top level of the game and understands that its only done by buying top footballers that the other top clubs want. Notably, that having bumped this post, it is seen that the usual culprit has opted out of replying to me when he was found lacking ............ Ok, thats a fair post. So just to make sure I'm getting this right, you don't consider Woodgate and Modric top footballers that other top clubs want? Also, did Chelsea show a lack of ambition in failing to land Robinho ahead of Man City? edit: i think it's laughable that you have a dig at Ashley for his private business strategy which has made him a billionaire from nothing. Enlighten me, I didn't realise Woodgate and Modric had signed for Newcastle ? Or even a top 4 club ? I don't give a toss how Ashley made his money, he came into this club, knew nothing about football, and proceeded to prove it. Quite amazing that anybody can still not see this after recent events. This has been coming for months, as obvious as the nose on your face. Modric and Woodgate did, however, sign for a club that's clearly had to sell in order to buy. I don't really care about Spurs and am surprised that you are, having witnessed the utter farce of this week. You aren't defending the actions of the club this week are you and the fact that Keegan has clearly shown you that he feels he will get nowhere while they are running the club ? For once, can you just try not to superimpose a straw man argument over someone's post? Where am I defending the club's ridiculousness this week? You're the one who mentioned "its only done by buying top footballers that the other top clubs want.". Mention of another 'top club' as a specific example and it's "WHO CARES WHAT OTHER TOP CLUBS WANT?" And where has Keegan clearly shown that he feels he will get nowhere while 'they' are running the club? I didn't see his announcement, obviously you must have. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, same goes for negative fuckers. Err...I think his actions this week cover that. However, he was all praise for Ashley in the press conference. Also, people saying Milner was sold without KK's say so, 1st thing he does in the press conference is say that was his decision. I believe him, personally. I can only (IMAGINE what's gone wrong is to do with the other 3. Whether they're there just to do Ashley's dirty work or they've been out of order, the next few days should tell. I'd guess, if KK stays and the other 3 are hoyed out (or some of them are) then we know Ashley backs KK, if KK goes it's other way around. Seems simple enough, without a single fact and nothing but supposition to go on....

Fair post. Nobody minds a stronger structure if the right people are in positions of responsibility and there are open lines of communication. Ashley has filled his shops with cheap crap and built it up. Maybe this is what he's good at. Should have stuck to the formula and bought a shitty little club in the championship that you don't need to spend money on. I just hope he sells asap to someone who actually wants to succeed at the top level of the game and understands that its only done by buying top footballers that the other top clubs want. Notably, that having bumped this post, it is seen that the usual culprit has opted out of replying to me when he was found lacking ............ Ok, thats a fair post. So just to make sure I'm getting this right, you don't consider Woodgate and Modric top footballers that other top clubs want? Also, did Chelsea show a lack of ambition in failing to land Robinho ahead of Man City? edit: i think it's laughable that you have a dig at Ashley for his private business strategy which has made him a billionaire from nothing. Enlighten me, I didn't realise Woodgate and Modric had signed for Newcastle ? Or even a top 4 club ? I don't give a toss how Ashley made his money, he came into this club, knew nothing about football, and proceeded to prove it. Quite amazing that anybody can still not see this after recent events. This has been coming for months, as obvious as the nose on your face. We apparently bid for Rooney but we didn't sign him either, i didn't think the last board were lying when that they bid for him and i don't believe this board is lying about Woodie and Modric. This board are making enough mistakes without you having to spout crap like that, just make rational NON EMOTIONAL observations because they're damming enough. At what ever level the f*** ups are happening i don't know, but they're definitely happening. I hope this rather sobering experience brings about a reorganisation at the club that supports the main man - the Manager. Emotional ? Don't make me laugh. Myself and a small amount of others, have been telling you for months that this was coming. Telling who? You haven't been telling me anything. I never blasted the old board and i didn't rejoice over the new one, i just wait and see. At least know who you're talking ffs.