Kaizero

What's that? Three points off safety with 23 matches to go? But we were 100% going down, wasn't it? Eh?

Apropos of nothing, but how is John Carew viewed in hindsight by Villa fans?

Not sure what to call it, but I'd want to be doing what Bodø/Glimt are doing where the system is what works - not really the players (though them being good helps as well ). Essentially, if the LW drops out/gets sold, the reserve/replacement LW will know exactly what the LW role is meant to do and as such there won't really be an issue plugging the hole as everyone pulls in the same direction. Last season their front tree seemed irreplaceable, they sold them all and this season their new front tree seem irreplaceable - but they're not, which has been proven when injury has struck. They just play like an absolute unite with everyone pulling in the same direction and leaving everything on the pitch, even against shit opponents. If you break down their squad on an individual level, there's some obvious talent in there - but also a lot of mediocre, leaning towards not very good, players. Their top scorer, Erik Botheim, failed at Rosenborg and then went on to fail to score in an entire season at Stabæk before ending up at Bodø/Glimt and just scoring for fun. At first each time they missed some players I was certain they would be shit as the missing players seemed to have an incredible understanding for their positioning and sending pinpoint passes/crosses to each other. But, as it turns out, it's not an understanding of each other more so than an understanding of where the player in that position is meant to be at any point in time in the different phases of play, and therefore they can just send the passes to where they'd always send the passes, as the player (first teamer or replacement) will know where to position themselves to receive the pass. So that, but with better players

At least there's some things we can agree on What an absolutely immense plonker

A few people I know met him when he was in Bodø (not NUFC supporters), said he was very courteous and nice but quite clearly a narcissist.

I can think of a reason why he'd join (the answer is money).

-18 degrees in Bodø

Was more thinking the style of training, where just writing stuff on whiteboards seem to be the prevalent means Obviously very different gravity to a situation where Sir Alex Ferguson shouts at you to go out there and fucking win compared to an OGS or Bacon Bruce.

There's no point, it's a question.

Why is Wayne Rooney being linked?

OGS has based his entire managerial style on Sir Alex Ferguson. Obviously won't have been able to replicate that, but with the "leaks" regarding how he ran training and such with words on a whiteboard being the extent of it, does this mean that Sir Alex was a PFM? (in management style that is, not measured by success) Also thinking how our very own Steve Bruce ran his training. There's two Sir Alex pupils apparently emulating Sir Alex by writing "go win" on a board.

We'll buy our way out of trouble in January. We have endless money. The Saudis will not want their sportswashing happening in the Championship, so we'll spend what we need to survive. "Oooh, player X won't come if we're cut adrift". Like fuck he won't join. Wave enough money at a player and almost anyone will join. The only possible positive from the Ashley regime is how much we can fucking spend and still not fuck with FFP. "Oh, but putting too many new players into a team will make them not work well together." They're all fucking professional footballers and we'll buy a fuckload of the ones at the more talented end of the scale. If we as a team have an understandable style of play there'll be no issues, and we'll have that with Howe. Once they know the system they'll know where to kick the ball even if they've not played together with everyone for ten years before they get on a pitch.

According to fivethirtyeight we're 63% likely to get relegated after today, so 6.3.

Were people really expexting Howe to go to the press and say "Well Shelvey and Joey are pure shit, absolute wankers the both of them. Can't hit a barn wall from five inches away if their lives depended on it." ? Of course he'll praise the players currently at the club, they need confidence.

The most frustrating thing for me is how we for once have a great attacking group of players and we waste it all playing defense - which always backfires, as we don't have very good defensive players and bang average keepers.

He'd be dumb to do so at this stage of his career and it's not like we'll sack Solbakken within the next decade.

I agree, never been a fan of Solbakken. If we absolutely had to go Norwegian for manager I'd have preferred the likes of Rekdal over him even. If only because of what you say, wanting to attack rather than be defensive and knock it long. Thankfully our players are young and the next WC will have more spots from Europe. Maybe we'll even make the next Euros, even Solbakken can't mess that one up - knock on wood.

In the end we couldn't beat Latvia so can't say we didn't deserve not qualifying.

I'm just placing all my hopes on Montenegro beating Turkey by a lot and Norway holding on to a draw.

Maradona saying Argentina was Messi, Mascherano and Jonas was prime Jonas.

As he calls me a liar, I just want to state that I see no point in continuing discussion with Clark on this subject. I have put my views out there and tried to engage in discussion and received no proper responses to the points I've tried to raise. I have held no ill will towards Clark and all I wanted out of this engagement was to discuss the merits of placing Vieira above Howe on a list of PL managers. He explained his viewpoint, and I countered said viewpoint and received no proper response. I do not see where I have lied about Clark - and it has certainly not been my intention. It's not as if this is not a public forum where everyone can read all the posts made, and thus would clearly see with their own eyes if I lied about something. This has become a tedious debate and serves no further purpose and I do not wish to be part of it. I had no intention of responding but given his last post I felt I had to do one last post on the matter. I apologize for not realizing this went nowhere sooner and for being part of making this thread a dire read for everyone else.

I don't see how in any way I've embarrassed myself, rather the contrary. You've consistently refused to engage in discussion regarding comparisons, and you consistently refuse to engage in discussion even when on the terms you've set - such as now, when instead of discussing the merits of Vieira's career, you decide to try to make points completely outside the debate. You stated this: "The question I asked regarding how Pardew and McClaren faired abroad was rhetorical" - I fully confess I might have worded myself wrongly, but again, the point was clear enough for everyone and nobody would assume otherwise. Why is it so hard to actually discuss the subject up for debate? Why do you consistently try to alter the debate away from your own views?

Vieira only got as far as the QF in the MLS with NYCFC. He had an amazing base to build on and David Villa (albeit not in his prime) leading the line, 80 goals in 124 appereances. Lampard, Pirlo and Iraola as well and a Mix Diskerud in his prime years (alebit just how good he was can be discussed given he only really shined in the MLS). Granted, having a great squad doesn't mean you're not a good manager - but it heightens expectations. Expectation wise he delivered on the minimum required during his time at NYCFC and both the men following him have done improvements to what he did. Vieira was sacked from OGC Nice. They're currently third. His time at Nice had him improve league positions from his predecessor up one the first year and up two the second, before unraveling in his third season and getting sacked. They are currently 3rd in the league with a new manager. Again he delievered on the minimum expected of him with the club. Vieira at Crystal Palace has been a mixed bag. The club plays more entertaining football than during Hodgson's days, and he inherited a club in chaos. As mentioned earlier in the thread, a seven day period essentially made his start go from quite bad to acceptable. Time will tell if he has what it takes at Palace, or if he again will just deliver the minimum expected of him. I don't know how he interviews or what values team owners put towards hiring him. I know he has had a decent amount of input on the organizational side of things, which is a positive for clubs that can't just sign the best players available to them. All in all Vieira's career has been alright and without any major fuck-ups, bar his end at Nice. The argument style you use where you completely disregard any comparison is quite frustrating, as it leads nowhere. When people picks you up on your own hypothetical's and use them against you, they are then "rhetorical". If you are the sole arbitrator over what examples are "relevant" then there will be no way to discuss with you. It would be like discussing with a brick wall, which, to be fair, this is. In the end, on Howe's side, there's the fact he took an unfancied side from League Two to become a somewhat established Premier League side. It is an incredible achievement and he has continually exceeded expectations set before him. This is why I believe he deserves a place higher than Vieira on the list, in my opinion. Vieira might still prove to be the better manager of the two but for me, right now, it's not even a competition.

I follow the MLS and have followed the MLS since the mid-00's. Please tell me more about how I do not know anything about the MLS. N-O's old friend Heneage even works at NYCFC, fwiw.

Please also don't forget Vieira took over the Man City of their league in the MLS, and that his successor has a better record. Note also that Clark uses "first playoff appereance" to mean something, when the reality is the club had only existed for one season before this. As a point of consideration, the current longest Playoff drought of any club in the MLS is 4 seasons, meaning getting a club to the Playoffs is more what can be expected than anything else. There's 27 teams in the MLS currently, 14 make it to the playoffs. This means more than half of the teams in the league qualify. Now, when Vieria managed NYCFC it was 24 teams. I do not see how one can qualify what Vieira di at NYCFC as "fantastic" rather than "minimum expected level of results". Now, had he delivered an MLS Cup appereance, or even a Conference Final appareance, in his time with NYCFC, that would've been above expectations and I could be inclined to agree. His replacement, Torrent, actually took them to 1st in their division.